<< <i>I remember last year at Charlotte waiting for a dealer to finish up with a kid so I could ask him about some Morgans he had. He spent about 15 minutes with the kid, explaining how to handle and store coins. When the kid was done picking out what he wanted, the total came out to $12. The dealer knocked off $2 and took $10. I bought several coins from that dealer, some a little more than I would have otherwise simply because he had a great attitude. >>
This sounds like Jim Coad, whom is a regular at Long Beach...... At the recent Vegas Show, he did this very thing.......
Two Kids were buying Proof Susan B's.......
Jim Coad is tops!!!!!
Be Bop A Lula!! "Senorita HepKitty" "I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
My hubby had that particular look, Lucy, until he started losing his hair a few years ago... He looks like biker who did too many drugs during the 80s, but in fact he has a very responsible position for a software company and makes a pretty good living.
You can't judge a book by its cover. Personally, I kinda like the "furry biker" look...
<< <i><< That seedy looking guy with the ponytail and the full beard >>
You've seen Russ? >>
Not anymore. I shaved off my beard a while back. Seemed like every morning I'd look in the mirror and it had more grey than the night before. Now I look 10 years younger!
Baseball, when you walk up to a dealers table looking for that special coin you're looking for, lets call it coin x, and the dealer has twelve examples of coin x, do you just look at one and make a decision to buy or not without looking at all of the examples of coin x? I further srated that I was the only person at the table, and saw nobody at his table the rest of the day. That alone tells me something about the guy!
Well, I have seen more than once on this forum people ask, "who do you like to deal with?". Most of us who have answered this thread with info. saying how much we like the dealer we recommend.
I personally have been given advice to ignore grumpy dealers and work with someone else.
Treating any potential client poorly is bad business. People who do this are "missing the forest for the trees". I repeat - REPEAT BUSINESS is what makes a business successful or not.
If I want something special, I can ask any number of dealers to get it for me. They are constantly going to shows and can get me whatever I want. I am not going to go to someone who treats me like garbage.
There are only 3 areas that you can differentiate yourself from the other dealers:
1. Product 2. Price 3. Service
You can only do so much about price and still make a profit. As far as product is concerned, we all know dealer-to-dealer transactions happen constantly. The only transaction that really makes $ is the sale to the "end user" who is the collector. That only leaves one area that you can do something about - Service.
Mr baseball, I get the feeling that you feel that you are at the top of the coin collecting chain. How dare anybody cherry pick lowly SMS sets. Actually fellow, you need to grow up and realise that people are free to collect what they wish too....Ken
I'll tell you Cats, not only will I cherry pick proof sets, I'll go thru every raw Frankie, Winged Liberty, Jeffies, Washies, and cherrypick em to death!!!!
I buy the nicest raw coins that I think will grade high at the cheapest raw coin prices I can possible pay......
I am on the hunt for coins to submit for both my personal collection and also to bring freshly graded GEMs to market.....
more Cherry Picking for me!
Be Bop A Lula!! "Senorita HepKitty" "I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
<< <i>I remember last year at Charlotte waiting for a dealer to finish up with a kid so I could ask him about some Morgans he had. He spent about 15 minutes with the kid, explaining how to handle and store coins. When the kid was done picking out what he wanted, the total came out to $12. The dealer knocked off $2 and took $10. I bought several coins from that dealer, some a little more than I would have otherwise simply because he had a great attitude. >>
This sounds like Jim Coad, whom is a regular at Long Beach...... At the recent Vegas Show, he did this very thing.......
Collectors have to cherrypick, because there are dealers out there who will sell any old junk and call it PQ.
I was at the Baltimore show yesterday and saw one dealer selling a "hi-grade" set of silver Washington quarters that were so obviously cleaned you could see the shine from across the room. Did he say they were cleaned when I asked? Of course not -- he denied it. In future shows, I plan to avoid him like a bad cold. There was another who had a $11 junk box full of circulated Maria Theresa thalers, which is like selling silver bullion at twice the melt price.
There also were cases full of raw coins marked with grades that were one or two grades higher than the actual coins -- and priced accordingly. Then, I watched some of those same dealers grade tighter than PCGS when people came with coins to sell.
On the good side, I had one dealer who let me spend half an hour going through his "junk" box, and found some really nice Middle Eastern coins while we had a pleasant conversation. I got his card, and you can bet I will remember him when I need to fill a more expensive hole in my set.
My advice to dealers is this: If you've got something that's worth more, price it accordingly. If it's not worth your time to do so, then smile when some buyer gets lucky. Because you lose more from bad customer relations than you would gain from trying to squeeze a few extra dollars out of the transaction.
Baseball: you are right on. Too many chips on the old shoulder around here. No dealer likes it when the only sale they can possibly make is if someone rips them. Sheesh.
Here's a thread where the cherrypicker destroys a dealer's inventory and then takes advantage of his wife in a pricing mistake!
I don't think this is the same thing. You are saying there is a "rip off" happening because the customer wants to buy the best inventory item available? If you have something special - price it as such. You want people to play the lottery with inventory! What a joke! Show me ANY OTHER business where people blindly buy inventory, keeping their fingers crossed.
Personally, I don't collect mint or proof sets. I like flowing hair and draped bust coins. If someone wanted me to buy one "sight unseen" and acted jerky because I wanted to take a long, hard look at each and every one, I would laugh in their face! What makes a mint or proof set any different than any other item of inventory?
<< <i>My advice to dealers is this: If you've got something that's worth more, price it accordingly. If it's not worth your time to do so, then smile when some buyer gets lucky. Because you lose more from bad customer relations than you would gain from trying to squeeze a few extra dollars out of the transaction >>
I agree newsman!
<< <i>What makes a mint or proof set any different than any other item of inventory? >>
ealandg, exactly my point!.... so you like that fuzzy biker look mike
If a dealer isn't interested in selling "small time" coins that give him very little profit, why the hell would he bring this stuff to shows? Does he hope somebody will walkup, ask for a box of SMS sets and pay for the entire lot without taking a moment to look over the contents?
I love the fact that many dealers offer low profit items and/or maintain junk boxes. When I was a kid, I remember going from one dealers junk box to the next, spending hours looking for something like a VF Buffalo nickel or an XF Lincoln that I didn't have yet. As a result, here I am today spending an embarassing amount of money all because of my love for coins that began at coin shows 25 years ago.
If a dealer doesn't want to run the risk of getting "ripped" by someone who spends the time to cherrypick his sms sets, then the dealer should take the time to know his product. He should be picking them himself and pricing them accordingly.
or, he could not bother with what he perceives to be "small timers" but not dealing in such low priced stuff.
It is the dealers choice whether or not he wants to buy and sell such stuff, in which case he should invest the time, or quit b*tchin.
As an aside, I would wager a YN in any dealers hometown, would LEAP at the chance to cherrypick the entire inventory for the dealer and divvy the sets up into ordinary and premium. The YN gets a few bucks or some nice coins for his after school time, and the dealer has his sets divvied up in a way to get him maximum profit, without having to the work himself.
As for teh dealer, I am thinking he was a slimeball as well.
"I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather did, as opposed to screaming in terror like his passengers."
<< <i> dealers do this to make money. It's that simple. And what YOU need to realize is that a dealer should have EVERY right to not want people picking through dozens of their sets so that some collector can walk away with a score for only $10. >>
Sure the dealer has a right to drive away customers any time he wants to but is he going to make any more money on the set if the guy wasn't there to cherrypick him? I don't think so. He already has the sets priced at his price.
So, I think it is a pride thing and not a money thing. He doesn't want a more knowledgeable collector showing him up by cherrypicking him. Nothing wrong with that but that's the way I see the dealer's actions.
Time sure flies when you don't know what you are doing...
<< <i>As an aside, I would wager a YN in any dealers hometown, would LEAP at the chance to cherrypick the entire inventory for the dealer and divvy the sets up into ordinary and premium. The YN gets a few bucks or some nice coins for his after school time, and the dealer has his sets divvied up in a way to get him maximum profit, without having to the work himself. >>
There's only one problem with this scenario Frank. It makes too much sense for some of these hardheads!
Wow, this discussion seems absurd to me. A buyer has every right to look through the goods to find one that appeals to him or her. I think the question here is whether proof sets & SMS sets are to be treated as identical widgets, or whether they are individuals that may have differences in technical grade and eye appeal, or other characteristics. Like most coins with numismatic value, I suggest that the latter is the case. After all, even modern proofs and SMS coins can be GRADED right? That means they aren't all identical. They can have scratches, marks, flaws, toning (good or bad), differences in strike, die varieties, and - yes - cameo characteristics. Why the devil shouldn't a buyer look for those things?
If a seller at a show feels that a buyer is taking too much time at his/her bourse table, s/he could politely prompt the buyer accordingly. In this case, the seller might have said, "Oh, I'm sorry, those sets have already been checked for cameo coins. There aren't any." That would have been a polite way to accomplish the same goal. OR, the dealer could simply have shown the buyer one or two sets instead of giving him a whole pile to look through. For heaven's sake, if you give me three coins I will look at three coins. If you give me one hundred coins (of the type that I am interested in) I WILL LOOK AT ALL OF THEM. Who wouldn't? Don't show them to me if you don't want to let me choose the best one !!!
As far as "ripping off" a dealer, that is NONSENSE. I've heard of "caveat emptor" - a 2000 year old saying that means "Let the buyer beware." I never heard anyone say "caveat vendor" !!! The dealer is a professional. If he does not know his own inventory, he should get a different profession. I bought a shield nickel in an NGC holder marked 1883 Shield MS67. The coin turned out to be 1883/2 FS-013.3. The dealer happened to be a former ANA governor. With my superior knowledge in the specific area of shield nickels, I spotted value where someone else would not. Why shouldn't I benefit from that?
I always look for DDO's and other interesting features on shield nickels. If people like me didn't look for these things, nobody would even know about them. And what has extra value to me apparently has none to the dealer. So I am not ripping anybody off. Most dealers couldn't care less about the varieties I might be looking for. Similarly, any buyer at a major coin show who doesn't know what they are buying will probably get screwed. So whose fault is that? The dealer in the present example apparently doesn't care about cameos ... after all, he said he doesn't play that game. So if a customer "cherrypicks" one, why is that ripping off the dealer? The dealer saw no extra value in those coins, so you aren't taking anything from him.
On the other hand, there was a story I read somwhere about the elderly couple who brought in a cherry roll of MS SLQ's to a dealer during the Nelson & Bunker Hunt silver market (when everyone was turning in their scrap silver for bullion value). The dealer paid the couple bullion value and walked off with coins worth many thousands. That makes me cringe !!!! But if the seller was a professional dealer, I wouldn't see the same ethics problem.
THE MOST IMPORTANT CONSIDERATION IS ... whether bourse floor visitor or exhibitor, buyer or seller, dealer or customer, professional or amateur collector, major player or "little guy," everyone should observe reasonable etiquette, behave with civil manners, and be polite and courteous. Is there ever any reason NOT to?
P.S. When I was collecting as a boy, my mom took me into Stack's (mid-seventies). I had studied the Redbook and decided to look for certain dates that I (perhaps naively) thought that I had identifed as "sleepers" based on mintages and prices. I remember that the 1894 Lib nickel in proof and the 1927-D SLQ in Unc. were two of the coins on my list. We asked to see some coins, and they were very rude to us. When they showed me a proof Lib nickel with a scratch across the portrait, I asked if it was possible to see more coins, because I didn't like the scratch. The guy on the other side of the counter (I wish I could remember who it was) rudely took all the coins away from us, and told us that if we didn't like what Stack's had to offer, then we were ignorant and should leave. On another occasion, they wouldn't even pay attention to us, and pretended we weren't there. We walked out.
Later, I grew up to be an obsessed adult collector. Along the way I have bought and sold several million dollars worth of coins. And guess which New York dealership got very very little of that business !!!! Payback can be such a b*tch !!!
P.S. In keeping with my remarks about etiquette, I wouldn't be calling the dealer a "slimeball" either, even if his actions were rude. But I sure wouldn't buy from him in the future !!
I don't see any difference in picking thru a bunch of sets or a bunch of 2x2's in a case. You find something you like and you hand it to the dealer to set the final price. The dealer sees a CAM in the set and sets the price where he needs to. The customer says yes or no.
A dealer that won't let customers look at his coins needs to rethink how he does business.
If I were a dealer I would look at every set I sold to be sure what was going out. Any CAM's? Is it the right set in the envelope? Are there two sets in the same envelope? I feel the only way to get cherrypicked is to not look at what your selling
Oh, I forgot to add (with respect to the Stack's story) that we were ready to buy. We weren't just "widows & orphans" wasting their time. I also remember that in the glass case where I was sitting, right in front of me, there was a drop-dead gorgeous prooflike fully struck 1796 quarter. It was marked "Gem BU" and priced at $8000. I remember it very clearly, although it was probably 30 years ago. There were also several "Gem Unc." seated dollars in the case at prices ranging from $300 to $600. Usually when Stack's said "Gem" the coins were pretty nice. What a pity we didn't have the resources for such purchases at the time !!! But they were so awful, we wouldn't have given them the business even if we had budget !!
There's a difference between being a slimeball and being rude. There's a difference between 'ripping' a deal and 'ripping off' someone There's a difference between buying coins sight seen and cherrypicking
It's funny how some are so judgemental and yet don't hesitate to take advantage anyway they can. For instance, spamming the Coin Forum with an old holder coin for sale. Probably would've given a dealer hell for that, wouldn't you?
I agree that the dealer sets the rules and that I wouldn't call him a slimeball based upon what I have read. Loutish, probably but not a slimeball.
Anyway, I probably wouldn't ask the question that you stated. When I go to look at coins, I am there to look at everything and buy what I like. I am typically not real specific if I ask to look at something and I don't engage the dealer at all if what I am interested in is already out. I am not going to send the dealer off on wild goose chases to get me this or that but I know what I like when I see it and I want to see all the examples that I can afford before I make my buy. Either I can look at your stuff or not.
I can say that, in this case, I probably would not have walked away without having a little conversation about his attitude. I know myself to well to pretend that I would just let rudeness slide. Having said that, I haven't had any problems with coin dealers when I plop my butt down to start looking at all their coins.
Time sure flies when you don't know what you are doing...
<< <i>It's funny how some are so judgemental and yet don't hesitate to take advantage anyway they can. For instance, spamming the Coin Forum with an old holder coin for sale. Probably would've given a dealer hell for that, wouldn't you? >>
nah, only pompous blowhards of legendary proportions take offense to stuff like that.
"I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather did, as opposed to screaming in terror like his passengers."
nah, only pompous blowhards of legendary proportions take offense to stuff like that.
Ah - I see you knew what you were doing. Thought so... neat trick. Keep those dealers in check but get away with whatever you can because you deserve it. Hmmm.
Just a thought.... some folks think they are "cherry-picking" these dealers and are smarter than these dealers. Perhaps at times this is true. But at times these dealers could care less about what you're sorting through they just don't want to deal with it.
I've got a local dealer I've known for over 20 years. The guy is one of the sharpest in the business ( yes they are out there that don't post on this board) he laughs at the ones thinking they are "cherry-picking him. If he wanted he could rip them big time but he just lets them think they got a good deal.
Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
<< <i>But at times these dealers could care less about what you're sorting through they just don't want to deal with it. >>
Deal with what? Someone looking at their coins? Granted, I am not a cherrypcker in the sense of this thread but I just can't imagine what there is to deal with.
Time sure flies when you don't know what you are doing...
<< <i>So, I think it is a pride thing and not a money thing. He doesn't want a more knowledgeable collector showing him up by cherry picking him. Nothing wrong with that but that's the way I see the dealer's actions. >>
Well funny you replied as my post was kind of in response to yours. My point being is many can think they are more knowledgeable than these dealers. And by no means am I sticking up for dealers. If you see my posts you would know that.
And sometimes this may hold true, but I've seen the other side as well and some of these dealers are laughing at the so called "Cherry-pickers" as well. Nothing more to it than that.
Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
Guess my definition of slimeball falls short of the authors, rude yes but slimeball hmmm. What bothers me more is some of the comments that are being directed at those who wouldn't choose to publicly call someone a slimeball for this momentous miscarraige of etiquette. I see the lynchmob is still alive and well.
<< <i>nah, only pompous blowhards of legendary proportions take offense to stuff like that.
Ah - I see you knew what you were doing. Thought so... neat trick. Keep those dealers in check but get away with whatever you can because you deserve it. Hmmm. >>
reading comprehenion - give it a shot.
I don't take offense, just jealous dealers (actually referred to a pompous blowhards - see above - take offense to it.
Actually, the thread that you are desperately grasping at to make some sort of point was well received by the forum in identifying a certain type of slab, as well as the differences found in bogus slabs regarding teh label.
But hey, if buyers aren;t informed, they might be rip-off able.
"I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather did, as opposed to screaming in terror like his passengers."
<< <i>A slimeball is someone like SarasotaFrank who takes a shot at someone simply because he has taken an opposing viewpoint in a contentious thread. >>
<< <i><<The dealers pay money to set up and as far as I'm concerned, they get to call the shots. >>
Ah, now we get down to the heart of the matter, which is supply and demand. I have the money. If you treat me like cr*p, you won't get the money. Therefore, I am calling the shots. I think it is sad that you feel you need to accept poor customer service from a dealer merely because he paid for a table.
I went in Wallmart today. Needed to pick up quite a bit of stuff. aisles are small, people stocking the shelves were "Grumpy." I went to buy some stuff and I did just that.
Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
Funny thing, in that thread tradedollarnut linked everybody complimented the guy on shanking the dealer like he had done something good. Simply unbelievable!! No wonder dealers hate collectors.
But anyway <<<I wanted to slap the taste out of his mouth, but why stoop to their level?>>> Because it makes you feel good & he needs the punishment. If somebody can't raise themselves to my level I'll gladly stoop to theirs to get the point across.
Change that we can believe in is that change which is 90% silver.
<< <i>I went in Wallmart today. Needed to pick up quite a bit of stuff. aisles are small, people stocking the shelves were "Grumpy." I went to buy some stuff and I did just that. >>
I went to that exact same store yesterday to get a nice flowering plant for my wife. I was looking through all they had trying to find the best one. The one with the healthiest, greenest leaves, best, most colorful flowers and nicest growth. One of those grumpy shelf stockers asked me "What the hell are you looking for?". I told him that I was looking for the nicest plant they had. He replied "We don't play that game at this store!"
So I went next door to Target and bought my plant and a number of other things.
Time sure flies when you don't know what you are doing...
<< <i>My hubby had that particular look, Lucy, until he started losing his hair a few years ago... He looks like biker who did too many drugs during the 80s, but in fact he has a very responsible position for a software company and makes a pretty good living.
You can't judge a book by its cover. Personally, I kinda like the "furry biker" look... >>
Another cool gal like lucy with great taste in men !!!, Not that I'm saying that because it makes me happy to hear of men who look like me being wanted, but, well... yeah thats exactley what I meant!!!
Lady coin collectors are
Les
The President claims he didn't lie about taxes for those earning less then $250,000 a year with public mandated health insurance yet his own justice department has said they will use the right of the government to tax when the states appeals go to court.
Maybe slimeball was a harsh word for a rude dealer that acted unproffessional but I can't believe how many dealers and dealer groupies think this is acceptable behaviour....... IT IS NOT! mike
Some of the stories that have told here show why so many dealers pack up and go home during the "public days" at coin shows.
When you are a bourse dealer at show you have limited hours and limited retail space. When those two goods are taken up with people who are not really active buyers, it makes it harder to be successful. Add to that the theft problems that one can have at a show where there are many, many people milling around, and you can see why time at a show can be stressful for a dealer.
That is not an excuse for a dealer to be rude, but collectors need to realize that proper conduct at a show is a two way street.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
It's OK to cherry pick, but don't block up the dealer's table all of you books and papers, and don't spend hours at a guy's table and buy nothing. And for goodness sakes if you do cherry pick a gem, don't throw it up into the dealer's face. I've seen a couple of people do that, (but not to me) and it's really stupid.
You also improve you chances if being well regarded if you don't argue too much about price. About 95% of the time I don't go beyond go beyond the dealer's initial price quote. I either buy the coin, or I don't. If we are close, sometimes I'll make a counter offer, but if it's not accepted, that's it. NO hemming and hauling.
Getting a reputation among the dealers as an honest active buyer can pay dividends. Getting one as "a pain the butt" always works in the other direction.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
Comments
<< <i>I remember last year at Charlotte waiting for a dealer to finish up with a kid so I could ask him about some Morgans he had. He spent about 15 minutes with the kid, explaining how to handle and store coins. When the kid was done picking out what he wanted, the total came out to $12. The dealer knocked off $2 and took $10. I bought several coins from that dealer, some a little more than I would have otherwise simply because he had a great attitude.
>>
This sounds like Jim Coad, whom is a regular at Long Beach......
At the recent Vegas Show, he did this very thing.......
Two Kids were buying Proof Susan B's.......
Jim Coad is tops!!!!!
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
You can't judge a book by its cover. Personally, I kinda like the "furry biker" look...
<< <i><< That seedy looking guy with the ponytail and the full beard >>
You've seen Russ? >>
Not anymore. I shaved off my beard a while back. Seemed like every morning I'd look in the mirror and it had more grey than the night before. Now I look 10 years younger!
Russ, NCNE
I further srated that I was the only person at the table, and saw nobody at his table the rest of the day. That alone tells me something about the guy!
I personally have been given advice to ignore grumpy dealers and work with someone else.
Treating any potential client poorly is bad business. People who do this are "missing the forest for the trees". I repeat - REPEAT BUSINESS is what makes a business successful or not.
If I want something special, I can ask any number of dealers to get it for me. They are constantly going to shows and can get me whatever I want. I am not going to go to someone who treats me like garbage.
There are only 3 areas that you can differentiate yourself from the other dealers:
1. Product
2. Price
3. Service
You can only do so much about price and still make a profit. As far as product is concerned, we all know dealer-to-dealer transactions happen constantly. The only transaction that really makes $ is the sale to the "end user" who is the collector. That only leaves one area that you can do something about - Service.
Rant over.
I buy the nicest raw coins that I think will grade high at the cheapest raw coin prices I can possible pay......
I am on the hunt for coins to submit for both my personal collection and also to bring freshly graded GEMs to market.....
more Cherry Picking for me!
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
<< <i>
<< <i>I remember last year at Charlotte waiting for a dealer to finish up with a kid so I could ask him about some Morgans he had. He spent about 15 minutes with the kid, explaining how to handle and store coins. When the kid was done picking out what he wanted, the total came out to $12. The dealer knocked off $2 and took $10. I bought several coins from that dealer, some a little more than I would have otherwise simply because he had a great attitude.
>>
This sounds like Jim Coad, whom is a regular at Long Beach......
At the recent Vegas Show, he did this very thing.......
Two Kids were buying Proof Susan B's.......
Jim Coad is tops!!!!! >>
Bingo!
I was at the Baltimore show yesterday and saw one dealer selling a "hi-grade" set of silver Washington quarters that were so obviously cleaned you could see the shine from across the room. Did he say they were cleaned when I asked? Of course not -- he denied it. In future shows, I plan to avoid him like a bad cold. There was another who had a $11 junk box full of circulated Maria Theresa thalers, which is like selling silver bullion at twice the melt price.
There also were cases full of raw coins marked with grades that were one or two grades higher than the actual coins -- and priced accordingly. Then, I watched some of those same dealers grade tighter than PCGS when people came with coins to sell.
On the good side, I had one dealer who let me spend half an hour going through his "junk" box, and found some really nice Middle Eastern coins while we had a pleasant conversation. I got his card, and you can bet I will remember him when I need to fill a more expensive hole in my set.
My advice to dealers is this: If you've got something that's worth more, price it accordingly. If it's not worth your time to do so, then smile when some buyer gets lucky. Because you lose more from bad customer relations than you would gain from trying to squeeze a few extra dollars out of the transaction.
Here's a thread where the cherrypicker destroys a dealer's inventory and then takes advantage of his wife in a pricing mistake!
Across the Street
Personally, I don't collect mint or proof sets. I like flowing hair and draped bust coins. If someone wanted me to buy one "sight unseen" and acted jerky because I wanted to take a long, hard look at each and every one, I would laugh in their face! What makes a mint or proof set any different than any other item of inventory?
<< <i>No dealer likes it when the only sale they can possibly make is if someone rips them. Sheesh. >>
collectors don't like it when they get ripped either.
<< <i>My advice to dealers is this: If you've got something that's worth more, price it accordingly. If it's not worth your time to do so, then smile when some buyer gets lucky. Because you lose more from bad customer relations than you would gain from trying to squeeze a few extra dollars out of the transaction >>
I agree newsman!
<< <i>What makes a mint or proof set any different than any other item of inventory? >>
ealandg, exactly my point!.... so you like that fuzzy biker look
If a dealer isn't interested in selling "small time" coins that give him very little profit, why the hell would he bring this stuff to shows? Does he hope somebody will walkup, ask for a box of SMS sets and pay for the entire lot without taking a moment to look over the contents?
I love the fact that many dealers offer low profit items and/or maintain junk boxes. When I was a kid, I remember going from one dealers junk box to the next, spending hours looking for something like a VF Buffalo nickel or an XF Lincoln that I didn't have yet. As a result, here I am today spending an embarassing amount of money all because of my love for coins that began at coin shows 25 years ago.
If a dealer doesn't want to run the risk of getting "ripped" by someone who spends the time to cherrypick his sms sets, then the dealer should take the time to know his product. He should be picking them himself and pricing them accordingly.
or, he could not bother with what he perceives to be "small timers" but not dealing in such low priced stuff.
It is the dealers choice whether or not he wants to buy and sell such stuff, in which case he should invest the time, or quit b*tchin.
As an aside, I would wager a YN in any dealers hometown, would LEAP at the chance to cherrypick the entire inventory for the dealer and divvy the sets up into ordinary and premium. The YN gets a few bucks or some nice coins for his after school time, and the dealer has his sets divvied up in a way to get him maximum profit, without having to the work himself.
As for teh dealer, I am thinking he was a slimeball as well.
<< <i> dealers do this to make money. It's that simple. And what YOU need to realize is that a dealer should have EVERY right to not want people picking through dozens of their sets so that some collector can walk away with a score for only $10. >>
Sure the dealer has a right to drive away customers any time he wants to but is he going to make any more money on the set if the guy wasn't there to cherrypick him? I don't think so. He already has the sets priced at his price.
So, I think it is a pride thing and not a money thing. He doesn't want a more knowledgeable collector showing him up by cherrypicking him. Nothing wrong with that but that's the way I see the dealer's actions.
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<< <i>As an aside, I would wager a YN in any dealers hometown, would LEAP at the chance to cherrypick the entire inventory for the dealer and divvy the sets up into ordinary and premium. The YN gets a few bucks or some nice coins for his after school time, and the dealer has his sets divvied up in a way to get him maximum profit, without having to the work himself. >>
There's only one problem with this scenario Frank. It makes too much sense for some of these hardheads!
<< <i>There's only one problem with this scenario Frank. It makes too much sense for some of these hardheads! >>
Yer right Eric
If a seller at a show feels that a buyer is taking too much time at his/her bourse table, s/he could politely prompt the buyer accordingly. In this case, the seller might have said, "Oh, I'm sorry, those sets have already been checked for cameo coins. There aren't any." That would have been a polite way to accomplish the same goal. OR, the dealer could simply have shown the buyer one or two sets instead of giving him a whole pile to look through. For heaven's sake, if you give me three coins I will look at three coins. If you give me one hundred coins (of the type that I am interested in) I WILL LOOK AT ALL OF THEM. Who wouldn't? Don't show them to me if you don't want to let me choose the best one !!!
As far as "ripping off" a dealer, that is NONSENSE. I've heard of "caveat emptor" - a 2000 year old saying that means "Let the buyer beware." I never heard anyone say "caveat vendor" !!! The dealer is a professional. If he does not know his own inventory, he should get a different profession. I bought a shield nickel in an NGC holder marked 1883 Shield MS67. The coin turned out to be 1883/2 FS-013.3. The dealer happened to be a former ANA governor. With my superior knowledge in the specific area of shield nickels, I spotted value where someone else would not. Why shouldn't I benefit from that?
I always look for DDO's and other interesting features on shield nickels. If people like me didn't look for these things, nobody would even know about them. And what has extra value to me apparently has none to the dealer. So I am not ripping anybody off. Most dealers couldn't care less about the varieties I might be looking for. Similarly, any buyer at a major coin show who doesn't know what they are buying will probably get screwed. So whose fault is that? The dealer in the present example apparently doesn't care about cameos ... after all, he said he doesn't play that game. So if a customer "cherrypicks" one, why is that ripping off the dealer? The dealer saw no extra value in those coins, so you aren't taking anything from him.
On the other hand, there was a story I read somwhere about the elderly couple who brought in a cherry roll of MS SLQ's to a dealer during the Nelson & Bunker Hunt silver market (when everyone was turning in their scrap silver for bullion value). The dealer paid the couple bullion value and walked off with coins worth many thousands. That makes me cringe !!!! But if the seller was a professional dealer, I wouldn't see the same ethics problem.
THE MOST IMPORTANT CONSIDERATION IS ... whether bourse floor visitor or exhibitor, buyer or seller, dealer or customer, professional or amateur collector, major player or "little guy," everyone should observe reasonable etiquette, behave with civil manners, and be polite and courteous. Is there ever any reason NOT to?
Best,
Sunnywood
Sunnywood's Rainbow-Toned Morgans (Retired)
Sunnywood's Barber Quarters (Retired)
Later, I grew up to be an obsessed adult collector. Along the way I have bought and sold several million dollars worth of coins. And guess which New York dealership got very very little of that business !!!! Payback can be such a b*tch !!!
P.S. In keeping with my remarks about etiquette, I wouldn't be calling the dealer a "slimeball" either, even if his actions were rude. But I sure wouldn't buy from him in the future !!
Best,
Sunnywood
Sunnywood's Rainbow-Toned Morgans (Retired)
Sunnywood's Barber Quarters (Retired)
You find something you like and you hand it to the dealer to set the final price.
The dealer sees a CAM in the set and sets the price where he needs to. The customer says yes or no.
A dealer that won't let customers look at his coins needs to rethink how he does business.
If I were a dealer I would look at every set I sold to be sure what was going out.
Any CAM's? Is it the right set in the envelope? Are there two sets in the same envelope?
I feel the only way to get cherrypicked is to not look at what your selling
Best,
Sunnywood
Sunnywood's Rainbow-Toned Morgans (Retired)
Sunnywood's Barber Quarters (Retired)
There's a difference between 'ripping' a deal and 'ripping off' someone
There's a difference between buying coins sight seen and cherrypicking
It's funny how some are so judgemental and yet don't hesitate to take advantage anyway they can. For instance, spamming the Coin Forum with an old holder coin for sale. Probably would've given a dealer hell for that, wouldn't you?
I agree that the dealer sets the rules and that I wouldn't call him a slimeball based upon what I have read. Loutish, probably
Anyway, I probably wouldn't ask the question that you stated. When I go to look at coins, I am there to look at everything and buy what I like. I am typically not real specific if I ask to look at something and I don't engage the dealer at all if what I am interested in is already out. I am not going to send the dealer off on wild goose chases to get me this or that but I know what I like when I see it and I want to see all the examples that I can afford before I make my buy. Either I can look at your stuff or not.
I can say that, in this case, I probably would not have walked away without having a little conversation about his attitude. I know myself to well to pretend that I would just let rudeness slide. Having said that, I haven't had any problems with coin dealers when I plop my butt down to start looking at all their coins.
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<< <i>It's funny how some are so judgemental and yet don't hesitate to take advantage anyway they can. For instance, spamming the Coin Forum with an old holder coin for sale. Probably would've given a dealer hell for that, wouldn't you? >>
nah, only pompous blowhards of legendary proportions take offense to stuff like that.
Ah - I see you knew what you were doing. Thought so... neat trick. Keep those dealers in check but get away with whatever you can because you deserve it. Hmmm.
Just opinions.
I've got a local dealer I've known for over 20 years. The guy is one of the sharpest in the business ( yes they are out there that don't post on this board) he laughs at the ones thinking they are "cherry-picking him. If he wanted he could rip them big time but he just lets them think they got a good deal.
<< <i>But at times these dealers could care less about what you're sorting through they just don't want to deal with it. >>
Deal with what? Someone looking at their coins? Granted, I am not a cherrypcker in the sense of this thread but I just can't imagine what there is to deal with.
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<< <i>So, I think it is a pride thing and not a money thing. He doesn't want a more knowledgeable collector showing him up by cherry picking him. Nothing wrong with that but that's the way I see the dealer's actions. >>
Well funny you replied as my post was kind of in response to yours. My point being is many can think they are more knowledgeable than these dealers. And by no means am I sticking up for dealers. If you see my posts you would know that.
And sometimes this may hold true, but I've seen the other side as well and some of these dealers are laughing at the so called "Cherry-pickers" as well. Nothing more to it than that.
<< <i>some of these dealers are laughing at the so called "Cherry-pickers" as well. >>
That I believe but I doubt they are the same dealers that are 'throwing them out' for trying.
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<< <i>nah, only pompous blowhards of legendary proportions take offense to stuff like that.
Ah - I see you knew what you were doing. Thought so... neat trick. Keep those dealers in check but get away with whatever you can because you deserve it. Hmmm. >>
reading comprehenion - give it a shot.
I don't take offense, just jealous dealers (actually referred to a pompous blowhards - see above - take offense to it.
Actually, the thread that you are desperately grasping at to make some sort of point was well received by the forum in identifying a certain type of slab, as well as the differences found in bogus slabs regarding teh label.
But hey, if buyers aren;t informed, they might be rip-off able.
What a lousy thing it is to pander to the baser instincts of people.
Tsk, tsk...
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
<< <i>A slimeball is someone like SarasotaFrank who takes a shot at someone simply because he has taken an opposing viewpoint in a contentious thread. >>
That happens here a LOT. Haven't you noticed?
<< <i>A slimeball is someone like SarasotaFrank who takes a shot at someone simply because he has taken an opposing viewpoint in a contentious thread.
What a lousy thing it is to pander to the baser instincts of people.
Tsk, tsk...
EVP >>
gee, just when you think you've seen it all.
Bwahahahahaha...
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
<< <i><<The dealers pay money to set up and as far as I'm concerned, they get to call the shots. >>
Ah, now we get down to the heart of the matter, which is supply and demand. I have the money. If you treat me like cr*p, you won't get the money. Therefore, I am calling the shots. I think it is sad that you feel you need to accept poor customer service from a dealer merely because he paid for a table.
But anyway <<<I wanted to slap the taste out of his mouth, but why stoop to their level?>>>
Because it makes you feel good & he needs the punishment. If somebody can't raise themselves to my level I'll gladly stoop to theirs to get the point across.
<< <i>I went in Wallmart today. Needed to pick up quite a bit of stuff. aisles are small, people stocking the shelves were "Grumpy." I went to buy some stuff and I did just that. >>
I went to that exact same store yesterday to get a nice flowering plant for my wife. I was looking through all they had trying to find the best one. The one with the healthiest, greenest leaves, best, most colorful flowers and nicest growth. One of those grumpy shelf stockers asked me "What the hell are you looking for?". I told him that I was looking for the nicest plant they had. He replied "We don't play that game at this store!"
So I went next door to Target and bought my plant and a number of other things.
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<< <i>My hubby had that particular look, Lucy, until he started losing his hair a few years ago... He looks like biker who did too many drugs during the 80s, but in fact he has a very responsible position for a software company and makes a pretty good living.
You can't judge a book by its cover. Personally, I kinda like the "furry biker" look... >>
Another cool gal like lucy with great taste in men !!!
Lady coin collectors are
Les
Lots of viewpoints from different angles. This is good!
<< <i>If somebody can't raise themselves to my level I'll gladly stoop to theirs to get the point across. >>
Dog,
Don't give yourself a bad back on account of this forum.
When you are a bourse dealer at show you have limited hours and limited retail space. When those two goods are taken up with people who are not really active buyers, it makes it harder to be successful. Add to that the theft problems that one can have at a show where there are many, many people milling around, and you can see why time at a show can be stressful for a dealer.
That is not an excuse for a dealer to be rude, but collectors need to realize that proper conduct at a show is a two way street.
<< <i>So, let me ask?? Is it a bad thing to cherry pick at the shows. >>
depends on whether you're the pickee or the pickor.
You also improve you chances if being well regarded if you don't argue too much about price. About 95% of the time I don't go beyond go beyond the dealer's initial price quote. I either buy the coin, or I don't. If we are close, sometimes I'll make a counter offer, but if it's not accepted, that's it. NO hemming and hauling.
Getting a reputation among the dealers as an honest active buyer can pay dividends. Getting one as "a pain the butt" always works in the other direction.