Baltimore impressions

Barry

Just got home from Balto. Arrived about 9:45 AM. Met a few acquaintances waiting for the doors to officially open at 10 AM and chatted a bit. The floor was not particularly crowded throughout the day.

Dealers must have thought the market was HOT. This potential buyer did not!

I was looking to fill a few holes in my Bust Dime series, upgrade a few Seated Dimes, and find a few type coins.
Struck out completely in Bust Dimes - only saw one I needed. It was in an NGC AU-50 slab, overgraded and obviously cleaned. The dealer wanted MS money for it. Next, saw one Seated Dime worth upgrading. Dealer was asking about twice Tends. A $200 coin, but still, outrageous. Saw 3 different 1799 AU Eagles (I've been looking for one for a few years). One dealer wanted $19K for his (he had two of them). Again, outrageous.

It always amazes me how customer mis-oriented some dealers are. I stop at a table, dealer sees me waiting for him. He's busy on the cell phone and just turns around and walks away from the display case, keeping his back to me. After about 60 seconds of not even an acknowledgement, I continued on my way. This happened at more than one table.

Met fellow forum member Elwood for the first time. Had a nice lunch with a friend who frequents RCC (and lurks here) at a pub across from the convention center.

I did sell a couple of coins, but came home with nada. Maybe next time.

291fifth

Interesting report. In some ways you seem to have been at a different show than some other attendees. I used to notice the same thing when I attended major shows and then read the accounts of them in the numismatic press. I would have sworn that I was not at the show they were writing about. My gut feeling is that the market actually topped at FUN and that there is now considerable collector resistance to the prices being asked at these major shows. Dealers may now be playing "hot potato" with their inventory by buying and selling mostly from other dealers with few actual retail customers in the mix.

Pushkin

I think there is truth to Barry's impressions. I don't believe the coin market is hot across all series by any means. The particular series that I know most about seem to remain hot, and may even be heating up more for key dates, errors, varieties and patterns, but not necesary for the more common higher grade coins. A few series that I know less about don't seem to be any hotter than a year ago (Two Cents, Twenty Cents ???).

I have become so intolerant of impolite and rude dealers that I just walk after a few minutes or even seconds, period - even if there is a coin in their case that I have a strong interest in - I just won't tolerate any crap anymore - but that is just me - if they don't want my money, I sure don't want to even look at their faces - but again, the jerks are in IMO a minority of dealers.

Barry, sorry your Baltimore experience was not so "hot".

tradedollarnut

I'm curious. In reading your writeup, you seem to base your opinion that the market was not hot on the fact that you couldn't find much of anything to buy and that prices were too high on the few things you liked. That doesn't seem to be a logical conclusion.

RYK

Barry, thank you for the excellent report.

I was looking to fill a few holes in my Bust Dime series, upgrade a few Seated Dimes, and find a few type coins. Struck out completely in Bust Dimes - only saw one I needed. It was in an NGC AU-50 slab, overgraded and obviously cleaned. The dealer wanted MS money for it. Next, saw one Seated Dime worth upgrading. Dealer was asking about twice Tends. A $200 coin, but still, outrageous. Saw 3 different 1799 AU Eagles (I've been looking for one for a few years). One dealer wanted $19K for his (he had two of them). Again, outrageous.

I think nice type coins and rare date gold coins are particularly difficult to find on the bourse. Recent visits to large shows like FUN and small local shows leave me with the impression that there is really few nice "collector coins" out there. Dealer relationships are the best way to keep the nice coins coming.

As for the 1799 Eagle, that is a coin that is also on my wish list. Nice early gold and not-so-nice early gold are both hard to find and expensive, independent of the rarity of the issue. I think that the 1799 Eagle will always be in demand because it is the only "affordable" 18th century eagle. The early eagle is to gold collectors what the Flowing Hair/Draped Bust silver dollars are to the silver/type collector. At any rate, I think the 1799 Eagle is a coin I will get when the market is cold (and it will be someday ).

Robert

Barry

<< <i>I'm curious. In reading your writeup, you seem to base your opinion that the market was not hot on the fact that you couldn't find much of anything to buy and that prices were too high on the few things you liked. That doesn't seem to be a logical conclusion. >>


The fact I couldn't find much on my want list isn't market-related. It's because I am looking for specific coins in specific series that, for the most part, are not very popular. If I were collecting Morgans, I could still be at the show going from case to case.

When I said: Dealers must have thought the market was HOT, this comment was based on what I felt were very optimistic prices. And when I said: This potential buyer did not!, I meant, from my perspective at the show, the bourse floor was not very crowded and I did not see a lot of retail business going on. Again, my perspective from 10 AM to 3 PM today - your mileage may vary.

tradedollarnut

oh... your comment makes sense in that light.

Dealers do think the market is hot. Reports I've heard is that Baltimore is as strong as FUN - which was absolutely intense. Long Beach was a bit slower, but everyone was still burned out from FUN, which this year was only two weeks before LB.

coinkat

I was there today and I thought the attendance was above average and prices seemed strong which of course creates problems. It almost seems as if Dickens should write for the coin market... It was the best of times...and the worst of times. Quality sells.

tcmitssr

<< <i> Had a nice lunch with a friend who frequents RCC (and lurks here) at a pub across from the convention center. >>



Always good to have lunch with you and "catch up", Barry!

I found the classic commem market today very good (among the better dealers) and I picked up six nice upgrades. OTOH, finding gems from all the rest of the dealers was just not there.

I though there was a ton of people there this morning and 80 percent of them left about an hour after we came back from lunch.

I agree totally on rude dealers. Seemed today that many of the ones who, previously, had very bad body odor...bathed and acquired even worse manners instead. I walked away from about half a dozen tables when much the same as what happened to you, occurred to me.

K6AZ

Uh-oh Barry, you are going to get it from the dealers and wannabe dealers here. See, you are just supposed to like being treated that way, and you are there to serve the dealers, not the other way around.

As far as prices, some of these guys think they're real slick. When I ask the price on a MS63 Morgan, and the guy comes back with greysheet MS64 prices, I don't even bother. I walk.

Barry

Looks like I pulled a lurker out of the woodwork.

Bob, 56 posts in 2 1/2 years - that must be some kind of record . Maybe we can call it the reciprocal of Russ award BTW, care to explain your user name? I'm trying to figure it out, but no success.

KollectorKing

"BTW, care to explain your user name? I'm trying to figure it out, but no success."

T. C. Mits, Sr?

Barry

<< <i>T. C. Mits, Sr? >>


That's not his name.

FatMan

I agree that large shows are not the place to obtain specialized coins. They trade between dealers for customers back home and by the time I get there the nice ones are gone. Build a relationship with a dealer specializing in your series and you will be better off. You'll pay more, but the only specialized coins you will find at the shows are the ones you don't want.

On the other hand, if you are collecting a popular series national shows are a great place to buy. I buy all of my commems at the shows and auctions. Commems are in every case and many are ripe for the picking. You just need to know your series because there are tons of dogs barking in those cases as well.

Thanks for the report. I've read in other show reports that dealers were behaving. I knew it couldn't be true. I'm glad to see that many are acting crappy as usual.

oreville

I am not at the show but I have been shut out of all my bids except for one at he auctions. Prices very strong on the top drawer patterns, Very strong indeed.

Even so-so ones are doing well enough.

This is just from the internet bidding only. The floor bidding I have not observed so I cannot comment.