It makes you wonder

cacheman

I was entering Prices Realized into a newly created database for the recent Stacks mail bid auction last night and noticed something peculiar. Two medals stuck out due to their excessive hammer price; one, the Black Shame medal normally sells for $300-400 and hammered at $1300 and the other, a large Olympic medal normally about $600 went for $1600.

So you're probably thinking, well, someone wanted the piece pretty bad but it takes at least two high bidders for the same piece and it is very unlikely that there were underbidders that had bid one increment (whatever that was) below the successful bidder. In a nutshell I am implying that the auction house takes the high bids, regardless of an under bidder, and the piece hammers at that price. All of my winning bids miraculously, and suspiciously, hammered at 10% below my high. It is doubtful that pity plays into the equation but more to reduce your high bid by a % to alleviate suspicion. So do we need a leap of faith to imply that some questional business practices are going on? I think not. To make matters worse, it is likely that "mail bid auctions" are probably run this way throughout the auction house world.

Steve27

If what you're implying is true, you're talking about big time fraud.

cacheman

Yes, and there is not one bit of oversight to protect the consumer....

cosmicdebris

I got mine for 10% under too.

MacCrimmon

....and, you haven't even touched upon collusion by floor bidders. Dealer A agrees to take these lots and not bid on those other lots that Dealer B has an interest, etc., etc.

And then there's the very unsavory practice of dealers engaging in 'running' up a lot bid on an unsuspecting collector. Occasionally, the dealer "pushes" too far and gets the lot, at which time they say, "oh, wait a minute...I was bidding on the wrong lot!" Yeah, right!

Go to an actual auction and 'pay attention'....over time, you'll see plenty of which I speak.

laurentyvan

Cacheman, I fear you may be entirely correct. And coin auctions are not the only area of abuse...

As a new car manager I don't attend many used car auctions. At the few I've been to, shill bidding is very common but the smart bidders know it and stay off the car. Only the unsuspecting get lured in-same with coins.

It's not unusual to see cars with mechanical problems that everyone at the auction but a few know have been "temporarily repaired" just to get them through the auction. The auction house knows it, the smart buyers know it, only the unsuspecting get lured in-same with coins.

Mail bid and internet coin auctions are at one or several removes from the ultimate buyer-this just begs abuse from unscrupulous individuals and businesses. Morality is slowly draining from this country and what would have been shocking years ago now seems to be OK... everyone does it.

Sad commentary on our country and values.

SYRACUSIAN

Cacheman is correct.My worst experience in numismatics took place with one of Stack's mail bid sales and it didn't come cheap.


I only bid in auctions that I can attend and see the coins in hand ever since. At least with Greek coins.

MacCrimmon

Ah so. I see Dimitri has an advanced degree from Hard Knocks U.

1jester

I'm sure you're right, Cacheman. Others have alluded to that (and other) practices, and while I don't want to mention any names, they're in positions to know it's happening.

I've seen it in live auctions too, with the shilling and possible collusion. I notice how the auctioneer bids for some proxy accounts, and sometimes the price is just over floor bidding, and sometimes, much higher. I am sure there's something going on with that too.

Laurent, I know you're right.

Justhavingfun

Sorry to disagree, guys, but for the most part I've gotten my coins at prices all over the board. Sometimes 20% of max bid, sometimes 100% on the dot. Maybe that's because I have someone physically there bidding for me. And that sometimes backfires, because I've lost out on some important coins when my bidder had to go tinkle (or whatever) when one of the coins I wanted was coming up.

All part of the game,


Just Having Fun!

cosmicdebris

I am still waiting for my coin to arrive. An email from Stack's says it is going out in today's mail.

cosmicdebris

Lots 694 thru 698 ( The 9108 Goetz Pfennig Patterns ) had estimate of ( $150 - $200 ) each and ended as follows:

694 $85
695 $90
696 $210 ( My max bid $225 Winner )
697 $$125
698 $150



Lot 699 Goetz 1 Krone Austria Pattern estimate of ( $150 - $250 )

699 $240 ( My max bid $225 Looser )

spoon

This is precisely why I stay away from big auctions and keep to junk boxes and local shows ...

.. that or my appalling lack of funds