Is PCGS Grading tougher lately ?
coltgus
Posts: 337 ✭
I think so for several reason:
(1) I've heard dealers grumbling
(2) I always get the lower of 2 possible grades lately
(3) The pops on better date $5 Indians DECREASED substantially recently, one of my coins went from 71/47 to 64/47. This could be because dealers are saying "no way" and sending them elsewhere.
(1) I've heard dealers grumbling
(2) I always get the lower of 2 possible grades lately
(3) The pops on better date $5 Indians DECREASED substantially recently, one of my coins went from 71/47 to 64/47. This could be because dealers are saying "no way" and sending them elsewhere.
I'd rather be lucky than good.
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Comments
I believe this. I think we all like PCGS because there is distorted perceived value with PCGS. Look at what a bargain I'm getting! I know it is a little steeper than other MS65s, but it is clearly MS66!
We all like to feel like we're getting a deal. This is just another example.
The point is that there's no one standard. Since they are tighter than the 8 other bozo grading companies and the 2 other good ones, they appear to undergrade. Yet the entire industry has seen a slow loosening of standards since the early days. It's all relative and never absolute. One reason I like coins in PCGS holders is because I can always dream that it's nice enough to go up a point at NGC. To me that's a lot nicer than dreaming one day it'll cross!
<< <i>Undergrade..... compared to what? Compared to the way they graded in 1986? Heck no. Compared to NGC? Yes, a bit. Compared to Greysheet? Yeah, a lot! >>
Yes, that's what I keep trying to explain to people at the shows. The Gray Sheet prices are too low for properly graded coins becuase the the prices have been adjusted for all the overgraded junk that is on the market. Sadly most people won't listen, and some of them end up buying "bargains" in "Third World Slabs."
I'm not saying PCGS is bad. I like 'em, too. I'm just saying they undergrade compared with the rest of the coin collecting community.
The trouble with PCGS is consistency. They are all over the map, and that makes it hard for dealers to submit material to them. NGC's standards are slightly lower, but they apply them with more consistency.
I still find coins in slabs that meet my standards. The trouble is I have to go though hundreds of coins to find them, and I have to pay premiums to get them. On the other end I have charge more than some people, and for collectors who can’t tell the difference, that makes me “a high priced seller.”
The current grading situation makes harder for honest dealers to locate and sell properly graded material. And the low ball prices in the Gray Sheet, which reflect the prices for overgraded stuff don’t help the situation. In the beginning the Blue Sheet was supposed to be the place where overgrading problems were addressed. Now it is crept into the Gray Sheet as well.
Bingo!!
<< <i>I find it extremely interesting that you are all so insistent that greysheet is too low, that NGC is "looser". All of things only prove my point. You are using PCGS's grading standards as THE grading standards, when perhaps the rest of the world's standards are a little lower. >>
You have to be just a touch cynical when more than half the coins in a 60-some coin set get upgrades at NGC prior to a major sale of the whole collection (as was pointed out in that thread where the collection of early gold sold for $3M).
<< <i>You have to be just a touch cynical when more than half the coins in a 60-some coin set get upgrades at NGC prior to a major sale of the whole collection (as was pointed out in that thread where the collection of early gold sold for $3M). >>
Well I dare say the same thing could happen if one took some gold coins in PCGS green label holders and had them regraded. Overall standards have slipped.
PCGS with all their problems has found themselves in the (un)enviable position of being the standard by which others gauge themselves. this when NGC has affiliated themselves with the ANA which should be the standard by which our coins are graded. in the long run, i have found two things to be true about these competitors, both generalities with exceptions expected:
PCGS is stricter.
NGC tends to loosen at MS grades of 66 and higher and is more lenient with some designations.
interestingly, i make those statements based on PCGS graded coins and NGC graded coins, not on ANA adopted grading standards. there is something inherently dangerous about that slippery slope. my only resolution is to study the hobby as best as i can, look at as many coins---holdered by whoever and raw---as i possibly can and be patiently diligent in my purchases.
al h.
Hey Bill I'm a " high priced buyer" find me some Walkers in PCGS similar to the ones in my sig line I will buy..... If my credits good!
<< <i>(1) I've heard dealers grumbling >>
Nothing "lately" about that. Dealers have been whining about their grades forever. Of course, so have collectors.
<< <i>(2) I always get the lower of 2 possible grades lately >>
On one of my recent submissions of 11 coins, PCGS graded five of the coins at exactly what I had them grading, and the other six higher than I expected, one by two points. They have been very tough - stupidly tough - on the cameo and deep cameo designations lately, though.
<< <i>(3) The pops on better date $5 Indians DECREASED substantially recently, one of my coins went from 71/47 to 64/47. This could be because dealers are saying "no way" and sending them elsewhere. >>
This is just an adjustment based on some pop report cleanup they've been doing lately. I've seen several pops drop on the coins I check every week.
Russ, NCNE