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How the "Wonder Coin" got away

A little over a year ago I was in the market for a Spectacular Saint. My financial position then and to this day, unfortunately is not that of a high roller so I limited my search to a coin graded no higher than MS66. It didn't take me long searching through all the on line inventories to come across The "Wonder Coin". This specimen was up for sale by one of the PCGS authorized dealers and it's description went something like this " 1923-D Saint MS66 PCGS. Razor sharp strike with beautful color, a true Wonder Coin, one of the finest examples I have ever seen". This bold description caught my attention, however so did the asking price of $ 3950. MS66 Saints were selling retail for no more than $ 2500. When I asked him about the asking price being so high he told me that he believed this coin will one day be in a MS67. He also stated that he sent the coin in to NGC three times but each time it came back a 66, then he gave PCGS a try and they also returned it a 66. Bottom line, the coin is not a 67 however after viewing the scans I was in agreement that this was an ultra spectacular coin. I subsequently made him an offer of $ 3300 which he accepted, but on the pretence that he would give the coin one more shot to make a 67 at
the upcomming Florida show and he had another customer in line who only wanted a 67. So feeling confident about my chances I mailed him a check a couple of weeks before the show and waited. Two days after the show he told me that the coin upgraded to 67 and he sold it to the other customer. He asked me what to do with the check and said "just throw it away". For the record, I checked the PCGS population report four months after the fact and the number had not increased. Is this a reputable way to do business?

Comments

  • K6AZK6AZ Posts: 9,295
    No. He wanted MS67 money for a 66. I wouldn't even consider doing business with that dealer again.
  • I don't know, but I think I'd really like to meet your icon.
  • LanLordLanLord Posts: 11,714 ✭✭✭✭✭
    How about share the name of the less than reputable dealer so the rest of us know who to avoid too.

    It's not very often that I buy $3900 coins, but it has happened before, and it on the chance it happens again, I would like to know I'm not dealing with a scumbag.
  • If the pops didn't increase he probably never upgraded. At least you didn't lose any money on a bad deal and now know to avoid that dealer.

    Cameron Kiefer
  • darktonedarktone Posts: 8,437 ✭✭✭
    Made someone agreed it was MS67 and paid 67 money for it? or maybe he got a 67 at NGC or ANACS? mike
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A very large number of sellers of MS66 saints say the same thing, especially on ebay. Theirs is special and worthy of a special price when if fact, most are just average and deserving of no premium.
    Believe me, you can go through any number of different coins in the same grade (Saints included) and eventually find a very nice coin for at most a modest premium over listed prices. 50% premiums would require a coin to be almost a sure shot to upgrade. And those cases the owners rarely are going to bail early w/o trying a number of times for upgrade.

    Just because the Saint you talked about came back MS66 several times doesn't mean IT IS NOT A 67 candidate. To the contrary, if it keeps coming back 66, that implies the coin is very very nice for the grade and likely very PQ at a minimum. A no brainer 66. That usually means to me a 66+. And such coins oftentimes eventually find a weak spot at the grading companies and come back 67.
    My definition of a PQ or shot coin is just that: it keeps coming back the same grade from both services. Even decent coins for the grade occasionally come back the lower grade. That's why they aren't PQ to begin with.

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • krankykranky Posts: 8,709 ✭✭✭
    I might be missing something, but if indeed the coin got upgraded, then I don't see where anybody did anything wrong.

    New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.

  • CoinosaurusCoinosaurus Posts: 9,625 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The dealer here may very well be a scumbag, but I think you hurt your chances by insisting on contingencies, add'l submissions, etc. If you believed in the coin you should have plunked down your $3300 and said "done deal". Suppose the coin came back 67 on the dealer submission - you really think you woul have still gotten it for $3300? That's a chance I don't want to take, even with dealers I trust.
  • PutTogetherPutTogether Posts: 2,141 ✭✭✭
    If you agreed to give him the shot to upgrade it and sell it to someone else, and it did, I dont see a problem, afterall, you had agreed. However, if it did NOT upgrade (which sounds like the case) yeah, he's kind of a scumbag.
  • SeattleSlammerSeattleSlammer Posts: 10,001 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That's too bad...if the eventual buyer of the 67 would have been patient he could have found a PQ 67, instead of a 66 that took so many tries to make it into a 67.......

    I think it's a good thing that you saved your money on this one. You'll find other wonder coins for cheaper if you keep looking.

  • coinguy1coinguy1 Posts: 13,484 ✭✭✭
    It is possible (not likely, but possible) that the coin up-graded, but, that the published population did not increase. Perhaps, within the same time frame, one that was showing up as a 67, was removed from the pop report, due to a down-grade or whatever.
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,162 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Quite possible that the coin upgraded at NGC.

    However, I do own two pop zero PCGS coins... image
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,241 ✭✭✭✭✭
    However, I do own two pop zero PCGS coins...

    The point being, of course, that you can't assume that the pop reports are 100% accurate in any way.
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,162 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No. He wanted MS67 money for a 66. I wouldn't even consider doing business with that dealer again.

    Hmmmm.

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