$10k coin sells for $70 on ebay!

abuell

I couldn't be there at the end so I had a friend bid for me in the last minute. She hit the submit button and the darned bid took a good 45 sec to go through on her dial up modem and the 'too late' screen came up. It wasn't a good day! BTW: as everyone in the world missed this one - it's a Ryder 15! Not only is the Ryder 15 one of the great rarities of the Vermont series, it's also one of the legendary rarities in the entire colonial sector. To own one, and this one isn't all that bad - at least it's light in color - is an honor that very few collectors will ever have.

linkaroo

XpipedreamR

I like coins where you can actually see the design.

nepbrs44

Don't they use those to steady tables in restaurants?

291fifth

I know Colonial and Confereration era specialists get excited about varieties but this one is just too far gone for my tastes.

Pistareen

Unbelieveable! This really was an RR15 -- a remarkable rarity. Hey, at least the planchet looks nice.

This must be one of the biggest rips ever on eBay. Why was I shopping in the books categories instead of the colonial coins group when this one was listed?

Congrats to whomever picked this one off -- I'd love to have the chance to examine it. Please PM me if you know who got it!

mgoodm3

I'm not sure how you can tell it's a NJ copper, much less a rare variety.

mrdq

I'm amazed you can tell ANYTHING about that coin from those pictures. What are the identifiers?

Pistareen

The shape of the cud break at the base of the reverse -- right where the date should be -- is the giveaway on this one.

MrEureka

The buyer is not going to be happy when he sees this thread. What if the seller gets wind of this and reneges?

BillJones

Well this might be a rip, but it's the kind of coin that I avoid.

The worst piece I own is a Merrimack token that was made from the recovered iron that came from the ship. I've wanted a better one but just never pulled the trigger on one. That piece is immediately identifiable for anyone who knows what these pieces are. I can't say the same for this piece.

RYK

I recently heard from another collector of the sale of a nice, raw 1870 half eagle on ebay by a seller that was not knowledgeable. Problem is, the seller did not recogize the "CC" on the reverse but some bidders did and someone sniped a $30,000 coin for about $1000.

abuell

<< <i>I'm not sure how you can tell it's a NJ copper, much less a rare variety. >>



First of all it's not a NJ copper - it's a Vermont copper! Secondly, you determine that it's a rare variety by being alert, keeping your eyes open and becoming an expert in one tiny area of numismatics where the majority of the herd does not care to tread.

tradedollarnut

Live by the snipe....die by the snipe!

matteproof

<< <i>I recently heard from another collector of the sale of a nice, raw 1870 half eagle on ebay by a seller that was not knowledgeable. Problem is, the seller did not recogize the "CC" on the reverse but some bidders did and someone sniped a $30,000 coin for about $1000. >>



Hi RYK. Is it just when a buyer (any buyer of anything) makes a purchase at 1k when the coin is worth 30k? I say no. Shouldn't the buyer be obligated to inform the Seller of the Seller's GROSS mistake? What do you guys think? matteproof

jbsteven

<< <i>Secondly, you determine that it's a rare variety by being alert, keeping your eyes open and becoming an expert in one tiny area of numismatics where the majority of the herd does not care to tread. >>



I am all for knowledge is power. If I see a coin that I think will upgrade or is a rare VAM and can get the coin at the asking price then so be it.

windwhispersintrees

Even as a rarity, not something I'd desire because of the heavy wear.
I suppose if I collected that series and knew all of the varieties, then I'd appreciate it.

Is it so rare that such a terrible example should command thousands of dollars from collectors? Or are the examples of this one typically better?

Placid

I e-mailed the seller and told him

relayer

I would have tipped my hand and bid $100 first instead of waiting to get shut out

Shamika

"Heavily circulated copper coin..."

Ya think?

Nysoto

abuell,

How many Ryder 15's are known?

1jester

I can't wait till my Darkside rarities are worth this much....

TommyB

why in the world would you not use sniping software. go to Esnipe today.

abuell

<< <i>abuell,

How many Ryder 15's are known? >>



Quoting from Michael Hodder's cataloging of lot 40 of the John J. Ford sale:

"Ryder 15 is a classic rarity in the Vermont series. The huge die cud on the back that covers most of the date accounts for the variety's rarity, since that die failed immediately and could have struck few coins before becoming unusable. It's rarity rating is a moving target. In 1985 Roy Bonjour published a census of known specimens with the grades commonly associated with them. At the time, he listed 17 different specimens and there the number stood for a decade. An 18th appeared in McCawley & Grellman's October, 1995 sale of the Griffee collection, a piece newly discovered unattributed (hard to believe in today's sophisticated world of colonials). When (Tony) Carlotto wrote his 1998 book on Vermonts he used the 18 number as the census total. The 19th edxample surfaced earlier this year (2003) and has been graded by its rightfully proud owner as EF, It seems that one new Ryder 15 is found each decade."

This would be the 20th example known. BTW: the VF example in the Ford sale sold for $24k plus 15%.

fishcooker

Snipe an auction priced $9930 below retail? Why?

Bid $1000, and snipe yourself at $9900 in the last second.

LALASD4

I cannot see anything on that piece of metal

Rampage

The buyer is a board member, though I have not seen a post from this member in quite some time. Of course, I may have just missed them.

If in fact the previous poster sent an email to the seller, I would hope that he/she would not reneg on the deal. True, it is unfortunate that the seller did not know this was a rarity, but it is also unfortunate that the seller does not take the time to properly research the coins he/she is selling. If I am selling a coin from a series that I know nothing about, I would be sure to research it first.

Just my opinion.

AValde

this coin is cleaned.

with a sandblaster.

keets

a few salient points, one that will be appreciated, one that should be understood, one that will be scorned.

point you'll probably agree with
kudo's to whoever learned how to identify these from the scant diagnostics. it speaks volumes for Numismatic study and it's importance.

point you should consider for the future
i really feel it was a mistake to start this thread and will state that if i was the seller and came upon it or was made aware of it, i would sacrifice my eBay integrity to avoid a $9900 loss. the gloating should have been saved for the buyer OR until the deal was consummated.

point that should get me flamed
i hope i never hear another person whine about a high grade modern!!!while that may indeed be a rare and identifiable specimen, to the 99.999999999999999999999% of us that don't collect in that area, it is pathetically worn. the thought of someone paying $10K rivals the PR70DCAM LIncoln of the recent past.

al h.

abuell

Keets-

I won't address your first two points here but I will address the third, not, however, with any intent to 'flame' you nor anyone else.

I am staisfied with the fact that 99.99...999% of collectors could care less and are content to satisfy their interests with such things as high grade moderns. Coins such as the Ryder 15 are legendary rarities and have been recognized as such by generations of collectors for well over a century, not by last week's 'pop report' from one company or another. Coins like this truly are the 'footprints of history', direct, tangible links to our ancestors who founded this country. They were minted in minuscule quantities under the most trying of conditions. That any at all have survived borders on the miraculous.

Long after the vast masses of today's collectors have moved on from oogling the mint's latest creation and agonizing over whether it will 'make a 70' or not to whatever the next fad de jour in collecting may be, the very same collector base that today supports the study and preservation of coins like this Ryder 15 will remain.

keets

hey abuell

you apparently didn't note my little laughing face and took my third comment a bit too much to heart. be advised that my collecting interests run the gamut of U.S. Federal coinage and i thought i was quite clear in my first point about my admiration for a collector who studies his niche to the degree of whoever can recognize that coin for what it was. need i say more in that area??

what is a nice refreshing thing for me to hear is that i should respect another collectors area of interest while he regards the interest of others with disdain and scorn. that is utter non-sense. it is precisely the reaction i had hoped for despite my tongue in cheek post.

the mere truth is this----collectors of modern coinage are thought of as less than true collectors by persons such as yourself. that is pure hypocritical arrogance at it's worst. i admire the fact that different persons find different areas within the hobby to involve themselves, there is certainly room for each of us. why is it so difficult for mutual respect to be given?? do we need to have a hierarchy chart that lists who's interests are more important or significant to the hobby?? do we need to have footprints in the past and then leap over the present?? do you really that 99.99...999% of collectors who aren't focused on colonials are only collecting moderns??

interesting reply by you. i've posted a small area of interest for me that might further gain some of your scorn. it's a So-Called Dollar, pathetic really, since it isn't even a coin but is in fact a medal. it has some similarities with your Vermont copper, though. it was minted by a private individual back in 1897 and is bi-mettalic. that probably wasn't the easiest thing to do back then, especially when you consider that the outer ring is aluminum. while the exact number struck isn't known with certainty, the number estimated to exist without having been "holed" is between 21-50. That any at all have survived borders on the miraculous, at least in the state of preservation pictured.

i've also included a quasi-modern rarity and something a bit more up-to-date-modern.

with all that said, isn't it about time we start respecting each others endeavors within the hobby instead of presuming ours is the more important?? if the truth could be known, i feel confident we'd find more similarities than differences.

al h.

oreville

Nice Vermont coin!

Great 1897 medal!

Comments: A typical 15 year collector who will someday be the mainstay collector of our hobby in 20 years will not think of the 1976 Ike Dollar as "modern." The 15 year old wasn't even born! For that matter neither was airplanenut! Keep in mind that "modern" is in the eye of the beholder.

I think of modern as post 1964. But I was 11 in 1964. I am getting "old" and my view will fade from the scene in another 20 plus years. So my opinion will soon no longer count!

aem4162

***noob alert***

does one have to use averted vision to see anything on this?

Dog97

That's a $30k coin?
I thought maybe you were making a joke thread but you don't look like you're joking.
Good eye you got, who woulda thunk...........

Neptune

You should have just put in a high bid if you weren't going to use sniping software. Altho I generally use eSnipe.com for items I really want, sometimes there are those times when you must snipe 'by hand'. I always test the eBay response time before bidding - just hit reload and count the seconds and then add a few - or times two because I think you have two pages to load. It really does suck when eBay locks up/slows down - especially when all you have is dial-up. I agree with TDN: 'live by the snipe, and die by the snipe.' . . . It's a chance you take..........also you must make sure that you are 'signed in' or that will add even more delay. I would never trust even my best friend to do a snipe for me!

Hand sniping is a personal and private thing from which a person receives much gratification and adrenalin rush. aaaiiiiiieeeeee!!!!! There's nothing like it! Especially for us folks who don't bungy jump.