weak vs full strike
matto
Posts: 54
First of all, I know I am in the minority in my opinion, but I can not understand (and refuse to) why some people value some of the characteristics that go in a coin's grade. Mainly, the strike. People all over will pay a huge premium for a strong strike. A good example is the jefferson nickel series. 5 or 6 steps can determine the majority of the value. RESTATED: A characteristic that can barely be seen without the aid of magnification determines the majority of the coin's worth. Furthermore, this characteristic is as struck. The same can be seen of the Merc. dime series. A simple and barely noticeable splitting of bands can mean thousands of dollars. My main point in all of this is that I believe that numismatic material needs to be valued for its originality. If it was struck weakly then the only thing that should decrease its value over a well struck example is the eye appeal. So, speaking for myself I will always buy that MS65 over the MS64 FH, FB, FS ect.. To end my rant, I will say that it is what is post-strike that I pay attention to, not something the coin was "birthed" with.
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<< <i>First of all, I know I am in the minority in my opinion, but I can not understand (and refuse to) why some people value some of the characteristics that go in a coin's grade. Mainly, the strike. People all over will pay a huge premium for a strong strike. A good example is the jefferson nickel series. 5 or 6 steps can determine the majority of the value. RESTATED: A characteristic that can barely be seen without the aid of magnification determines the majority of the coin's worth. Furthermore, this characteristic is as struck. The same can be seen of the Merc. dime series. A simple and barely noticeable splitting of bands can mean thousands of dollars. My main point in all of this is that I believe that numismatic material needs to be valued for its originality. If it was struck weakly then the only thing that should decrease its value over a well struck example is the eye appeal. So, speaking for myself I will always buy that MS65 over the MS64 FH, FB, FS ect.. To end my rant, I will say that it is what is post-strike that I pay attention to, not something the coin was "birthed" with. >>
In many cases, strike does have much to do with eye appeal. Often, fully struck coins command premiums because of their scarcity as well. I could go into a lengthy post about this topic,
however, since you stated that you refuse to understand why some people value those certain aspects of grading, I won't bother.
Jade Rare Coin eBay Listings
Although I don't entirely disagree with you, I will point out that "huge premiums" are only paid for coins that are genuinely rare when fully struck. For instance, a 1953-S Franklin Half is extremely rare with full bell lines and thus is priced to reflect this. The same would go for a coin that is rarely found with exceptional luster, rarely seen free of bag marks, rarely seen with original color, etc.
Although I don't buy into these premiums myself, I will admit that if I had the money, I too would pay a premium for a coin that has characteristics that separates it from the field.
Bust Half & FSB Merc Collector
Others prefer to own the very highest graded examples, and nothing very far down the "pop" list or "condition census" will do, such that even if millions of examples were coined and the vast majority of those millions (and sometimes, tens or hundreds of millions) still exist, in some condition, these "top pop" collectors will bid up the prices of "condition rarities"
Still other collectors focus on rarity in ANY condition, and only want "key dates" and the hardest to find coins. These are always expensive.
Attractively toned coins have always traded at premiums, among intermediate and advanced numismatists, and in recent years these premiums for color have gone far higher, in some cases.
In all the above examples, the collectors desire a more narrow subset of the larger category of "coins" and are willing to outbid others in a competitive marketplace to obtain the pieces.
I agree with your premise that the strike premiums for "full whatever" are usually not worth it to me, but I can certainly understand why the collectors that like it are willing to pay for it.
I personally shop for balance in a coin: a balanced appearance and price reletive to what i see and need for my collection and can afford. The head and bands and eagle's breast feathers and the hair over her ear are important to me, but only to a point.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>I agree with your premise that the strike premiums for "full whatever" are usually not worth it to me, but I can certainly understand why the collectors that like it are willing to pay for it. >>
Totally agree. In fact, I hope the FB or FBL collectors continue pay those prices. That way I can still get just as good a coin for a fraction of the value (ie non-FB Mercs) but yet keep that value intact...
jom
<< <i>I personally shop for balance in a coin: a balanced appearance and price reletive to what i see and need for my collection and can afford. >>
That's the way to go, IMO.
Jade Rare Coin eBay Listings
I’ll agree with you that the premiums are more than I would be willing to pay for some minute strike characteristics. But a significant number of collectors have focused on them, and that’s the market.
As aside, I had to chuckle a couple of weekends ago when I spotted an 1878 7 over 8 tail feather silver dollar that was marked as “weak.” There was clearly one feather that was below the others, which showed the blows from different master dies that created this issue. Yet there it was marked “weak” just like the coins that have no feathers or only hints of feathers visible.
Even some of the weak 7 over 8 pieces with no feathers showing can be darn interesting. I once had one that showed no feathers, but the eagle’s claws and legs as well as the branches and berries all showed doubling. The coin was every bit as spectacular or more so that some of these obscure doubled dies for which some collectors pay huge premiums. Yet the coin was worth only a modest premium over a “normal” 1878 because the doubled tail feathers were not showing. Unfortunately collectors can get fixated on a certain detail and ignore all of the others, which are sometimes equally interesting.
I would say so. I think for the most part, this is the way coins used to be collected. The way I look at it, when dealers and graders got smart they started to create all these designations to make more money. Therefore something "new" is marketed to the collector. The collector has bought into this marketing sceme. I haven't fully accepted their efforts.
If a major design element is absent because of wear a coin is severely downgraded.
Shouldn't this also be true if it's missing because of die wear, or poor hubbing, or be-
cause the dies were aligned so poorly?
As has been said, it really depends on the series to a large extent. Some series are
typically well struck so strike is of less importance but it is critical in series where strike
is usually poor and important for dates that are usually poor.
These are really considerations which each individual collector makes for himself and
the market says that most individuals are attaching significance to strike.
Full or weak strike didn't used make much difference.
Full bells or Full bands or Full steps weren't an issue.
As more and more people have become interested in coins,
what used to be considered minute is now major.
Those rare Full strikes or Full bands are now worth big bucks.
As this country ( and the world) has lower, middle , and upper
classes, the hobby will be divided into those classes.
The majority of coins will be of poorer quality which will enable
those with less disposable income to participate.
Obviously, the wealthy will aquire the cream-of-the-crop.
Hopefully, this fact of life will not sour too many potential
collectors from enjoying the most satisifying hooby on earth.
.
However, on classic coinage, there are some really crappy strikes out there where a lot of detail is lost on the coin because of the strike. Find a well struck 1866 or 1875-S quarter, and you will have something special.
I don't worry about FB, FS, FBL and other strike designators because I don't collect those other than the few I pick up from time to time that I like for some reason or another and that reason not being how well the microscopic steps are struck or if the bell lines are full.
With all that said I'm just as bad though when it comes to my Morgans that I collect because I hate a Morg that's flat over the ear, in the hair, & on the eagle. I like to see the 2 little ">" lines that make up the 3 strands of hair over the ear. I do admit I have some toned Morgs that's so flat over the ear you can play a game of football on them but when I buy a toned Morgan I'm buying it for the toning, not the strike but a sharp strike makes it better.
I'll overlook a few marks because marks, hits, digs, & reed marks are normal on Morgans anyway, in order to have a well struck coin.
Besides, nice higher grade coins are well struck, lusterous, AND mark free, other wise they would be graded MS64 & lower.
Ken