Now how would I know you would bring up a 39-s? I guess its not as nice as the one I sold you. The one you KEEP in your collection.
Im not sore, Im over it. Unlike you. Not happy with the one I sold you.. I will offer you a return privilege at the same price and its been how long since that transaction happened? And dont get cute, its not a lifetime return privilege.
And one more thing. It IS more about the ALMIGHTY dollar for you, isnt it?
When I bought the 39-S I sold to you along with a 39-D for about $575, you were very quick to point out where I got it, for how much, what my profit was that I was making on you, etc.
Bottom line is.. where are you REALLY coming from Don?
Blackwidow is ENTITLED to do whatever he wants with the coin. Your obligation is to ship it, no quesions asked. Once you load the pictures up through eBay, is it still yours? NO. You are handing the pics of that coin to eBay and they are NOT maintained on your own site. They are maintained on eBay's site.
Your sore because he's trying to get more money for it. THAT's THE BOTTOM line.
And I did!! I followed through, just like you are going to. So, what's the BIG DEAL? I hope you get $1000 for the 39-s! Doesnt make a difference to me.
As we both know, the 39-S is a difficult coin to obtain in MS66, almost impossible in MS67. You oaid cheaply for a nice coin that i sold you. If you were selling the coin I sold you and it was currently at $559, I wouldnt care less.
<< <i>Altho some won't agree - here's what I would do. I would get his phone number from the eBay 'contact member' form, and call him and/or email him and tell him: "I'm sorry, but the coin has been lost, and I must refund your money". I would not mention that you know that he has relisted the coin, and play like you have no knowledge of it - If he mentions, just say oh, really - what's the item number - send me a link - so sorry, Uncle Charlie!
Then I WOULD refund his money. (Boy will this put him in a bind by selling a coin he doesn't possess and that he stole a photo of!!!)
Then I would contact eBay and tell them that he stole your photo. Then I would hold onto the coin for awhile, and if you want to .... relist it again MUCH later. You may be out the eBay fees for first auction, but you will have the satisfaction of setting what is wrong - right. >>
This is exactly what I would do if someone did that to me -- and I wouldn't think twice about it. It's obvious that some folks here have no problem with the plagiarism issue, but please excuse me for being sensitive about it since I make my living from creating and selling copyrighted works. I'm sure other forum members would be just as ticked off if I suggested they give their professional skills away for free.
You re right Don. I did ask a question, apologized for asking it and have asked you to move on about it. I know its hard, but I see / feel somewhere that we are making progress.
You have a wonderful life, if this is a problem for you.. Your pic is not so great that you should be worrying about it. Yea...you own it. No big deal, in my opinion. Send the coin, and go to all the trouble in the future to keep someone from using a pic that you don't want to share on ebay. As far as people using your creative work, I'll wager all of us have done it in way form or fashion. How many of you know a person that does computer work, but never hesitate to ask for a "tip" here and there when needed, for free?..I'm sure there are other examples out there. Most of us in this forum here have "stolen" our icons from somebody...Sorry. I just do not see the big deal.
It isn't really a dilemma for you, as I see it. You've been paid for the coin, so there's no question about sending it. The ethical issues are the winning bidder's; it's a violation of eBay's TOS to sell an item not in the seller's possession, and it's illegal to steal your photos. As to the first issue, that's not really your concern, wrong as it is. As to the second, it's up to you whether it's worth it to take any kind of action, wrong as it is. The lesson being that this bidder is a jerk who's getting away with some shifty practices. But we all pick our battles.
I would feel very uncomfortable starting an auction on a coin that I don't have in hand.
I notice that the image here is clear and sharp, but for the sake of argument, not one that most of the people who sell on EBAY could EASILY REPRODUCE themselves. Let's kick it up a notch. Let's say the image is now of a dramatically toned coin. Let's say it is a greattoning image or a uofa1285 image or a TB Traders image or any of the dozen or so toned sellers who clearly have gone through some time and/or expense to be able to create the images that they do. Would it then be OK to lift that image? I have to say I believe not. If after you win an auction, and you ask the seller if he minds if you lift his picture for future use and he says that there is no isuue, that's fine. But to lift an extraordinary image without asking is wrong, and even this Brooklyn boy would say that takes alot of nerve.
<< <i>By posting the image below, I have also stolen Don's image. Is anybody offended? If not, why not?
>>
It never really bothers me when I see my photos from my website show up in message forums . I have seen them show up in many non-coin forums too (rap, motor sports, all sorts of stuff). I guess it is the whole non-commercial, conversation medium that accompanies a forum. I also don't have bandwidth worries. However, if I saw somoene using them to sell something, I would get upset and contact them privately about the issue.
That was my real ethical dilema in this thread...is it ok to specifically call out a customer, post private emails and ridicule them; especialy when you are in the middle of a transaction? I might have handled that differently...
Time sure flies when you don't know what you are doing...
I just went back to read the entire thread and the place where you cross the line Quattro is when you poke fun at your buyers e-mail based on the grammar. His education, writing skills, typing skills, whether he was born in the U.S., and more Etc. Etc. all could impact his ability to communicate. It is of no consequense to your post and making light of it is in poor taste.
<< <i>By posting the image below, I have also stolen Don's image. Is anybody offended? If not, why not? >>
Not offended. 1.) you have given credit to the source. (at least some credit) 2.) you do not stand to gain either personally or finacially from the use of the picture, Nor is Don hurt either personally or financially.
I wouldn't make too big an issue out of it, since he did pay for it. I would politely tell him to upload his own picture if his using yours bothers you, though.
Andy, Not offended...for the same reasons that Condor stated.
I just want to state that what really got me upset about this seller was the fact that they were listing something that was still sitting on my desk! The stealing of my picture didn't bother me half as much as the fact that the seller was using it to list an item which they did not have in their possession. As for me poking fun at their grammer, I feel that it just shows more of this persons character. C'mon, they can surf the internet yet can't form a a decent sentence?!? There used to be an eBay seller who typed in all caps and his sentences went on and on. He also liked to "bottom" feed and later list his "scores" on eBay with high reserves and b.i.ns. This seller also had some other "character flaws" and is now NARUed
And for those thinking that the price has me upset, think again! Just because you might feel that way doesn't mean that I do! These same people seem to know what everybody else is about when I don't think they know themselves! All my auctions have started at face value with no reserves. If they don't sell for "top dollar", that's my fault!
edit to add: coin is on it's way,...insured/deliv. conf.!
Comments
Now how would I know you would bring up a 39-s? I guess its not as nice as the one I sold you. The one you KEEP in your collection.
Im not sore, Im over it. Unlike you. Not happy with the one I sold you.. I will offer you a return privilege at the same price and its been how long since that transaction happened? And dont get cute, its not a lifetime return privilege.
WWQ
Hmm,...blackwidow,...whitewash
Sometimes black resembles white!
When I bought the 39-S I sold to you along with a 39-D for about $575, you were very quick to point out where I got it, for how much, what my profit was that I was making on you, etc.
Bottom line is.. where are you REALLY coming from Don?
Blackwidow is ENTITLED to do whatever he wants with the coin. Your obligation is to ship it, no quesions asked. Once you load the pictures up through eBay, is it still yours? NO. You are handing the pics of that coin to eBay and they are NOT maintained on your own site. They are maintained on eBay's site.
Your sore because he's trying to get more money for it. THAT's THE BOTTOM line.
As was your's!!!
As we both know, the 39-S is a difficult coin to obtain in MS66, almost impossible in MS67. You oaid cheaply for a nice coin that i sold you. If you were selling the coin I sold you and it was currently at $559, I wouldnt care less.
Best of luck!!
WWQ
<< <i>Altho some won't agree - here's what I would do. I would get his phone number from the eBay 'contact member' form, and call him and/or email him and tell him: "I'm sorry, but the coin has been lost, and I must refund your money". I would not mention that you know that he has relisted the coin, and play like you have no knowledge of it - If he mentions, just say oh, really - what's the item number - send me a link - so sorry, Uncle Charlie!
Then I WOULD refund his money. (Boy will this put him in a bind by selling a coin he doesn't possess and that he stole a photo of!!!)
Then I would contact eBay and tell them that he stole your photo. Then I would hold onto the coin for awhile, and if you want to .... relist it again MUCH later. You may be out the eBay fees for first auction, but you will have the satisfaction of setting what is wrong - right. >>
This is exactly what I would do if someone did that to me -- and I wouldn't think twice about it. It's obvious that some folks here have no problem with the plagiarism issue, but please excuse me for being sensitive about it since I make my living from creating and selling copyrighted works. I'm sure other forum members would be just as ticked off if I suggested they give their professional skills away for free.
Somehow I remember a "question" being asked!
Someone here warned about gettin' into a pissin' contest with a skunk.
Think I'll bow-out.
nite steve!
All the best to you..
Nite!!
-Jay
e-mail me here
WINNER:
POTD 8-30-05 (awarded by dthigpen)
POTD 9-8-05 (awarded by gsaguy)
GSAGUY Slam 12-10-04
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I notice that the image here is clear and sharp, but for the sake of argument, not one that most of the people who sell on EBAY could EASILY REPRODUCE themselves.
Let's kick it up a notch. Let's say the image is now of a dramatically toned coin. Let's say it is a greattoning image or a uofa1285 image or a TB Traders image or any of the dozen or so toned sellers who clearly have gone through some time and/or expense to be able to create the images that they do. Would it then be OK to lift that image?
I have to say I believe not. If after you win an auction, and you ask the seller if he minds if you lift his picture for future use and he says that there is no isuue, that's fine. But to lift an extraordinary image without asking is wrong, and even this Brooklyn boy would say that takes alot of nerve.
<< <i>By posting the image below, I have also stolen Don's image. Is anybody offended? If not, why not?
>>
It never really bothers me when I see my photos from my website show up in message forums . I have seen them show up in many non-coin forums too (rap, motor sports, all sorts of stuff). I guess it is the whole non-commercial, conversation medium that accompanies a forum. I also don't have bandwidth worries. However, if I saw somoene using them to sell something, I would get upset and contact them privately about the issue.
That was my real ethical dilema in this thread...is it ok to specifically call out a customer, post private emails and ridicule them; especialy when you are in the middle of a transaction? I might have handled that differently...
CoinPeople.com || CoinWiki.com || NumisLinks.com
<< <i>By posting the image below, I have also stolen Don's image. Is anybody offended? If not, why not? >>
Not offended.
1.) you have given credit to the source. (at least some credit)
2.) you do not stand to gain either personally or finacially from the use of the picture, Nor is Don hurt either personally or financially.
Not offended...for the same reasons that Condor stated.
I just want to state that what really got me upset about this seller was the fact that they were listing something that was still sitting on my desk! The stealing of my picture didn't bother me half as much as the fact that the seller was using it to list an item which they did not have in their possession. As for me poking fun at their grammer, I feel that it just shows more of this persons character. C'mon, they can surf the internet yet can't form a a decent sentence?!?
There used to be an eBay seller who typed in all caps and his sentences went on and on. He also liked to "bottom" feed and later list his "scores" on eBay with high reserves and b.i.ns. This seller also had some other "character flaws" and is now NARUed
And for those thinking that the price has me upset, think again! Just because you might feel that way doesn't mean that I do!
These same people seem to know what everybody else is about when I don't think they know themselves!
All my auctions have started at face value with no reserves. If they don't sell for "top dollar", that's my fault!
edit to add: coin is on it's way,...insured/deliv. conf.!
Don