Options
Now You See It, Now You Don't - Update- Now you see it +$98
RCDB
Posts: 388
I'm getting tired of EBAY sellers cancelling all the bids on their auctions in the last few minutes stating that the item is no longer for sale. In most cases, the item is no longer for sale because they did not get the action they perceived they would and don't have the integrity to bite the bullet. You're sitting there waiting to snipe and POOF!, it's gone. Some sellers even have the nerve to relist the coin a half hour later at a much higher price. These sellers are not the bottom feeders that are out to dupe the uninformed. These are members who I have seen posting here that should know better. When you list a coin for less than you are willing to sell it without a reserve, you are taking a risk. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. It's like any other form of gambling. It is not ethical to end an auction for this reason. If your upside down every once in a while, show some class. Take the loss.
I applaude the vast majority of you that handle yourself in an ethical fashion.
By the way, I guess I'm one of those dreaded newbies. I was into collecting as a child because my father collected coins. I held on to my father's coins and my own, but have been away from the hobby for about 40 years. EBAY actually rekindled my intersest. I've grown to love Toners and spend way too much, but who cares.
Guess what? It's back, plus an opening bid that is $98 above what auction amount was with a couple of minutes left last week. Am I confused? No Way
0
Comments
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
Russ, NCNE
It's happened to me a couple of times..watching a auction all week long anticipating your purchase of a coin you really want and then
I like to send them a nice email afterwards
The Whisker Cheek Collection - Top 50 Peace VAM Registry
Landmark Buffalo Collection
I'm really new, Russ. But I have been watching for a while. If Lucy sees this I would really love my first wink!
<< <i>These are members who I have seen posting here that should know better. >>
Name names. (Note: Anybody who's been paying attention lately already knows who he's referring to).
Russ, NCNE
Sometimes all it takes is someone to tap you on the shoulder to get you to change a policy. I highly respected the forum member who did just that without making a big drama scene/thread out of the event.
peacockcoins
WWQ
By the way, the event that set me off happened tonight. SHAME ON YOU!!!
It is a crappy practice and every buyer will agree. Won't ever change though. Ebay gets paid by the Sellers. Ebay doesn't give a crap about buyers.
Welcome back to the hobby, and to the conversation.
Don
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
Oh, and welcome
I try to combine bids to save transatlantic postage fees.
Web: www.tonyharmer.org
I will admit I'm guilty at jerking an item, but not at the last second and certainly not for bringing the price I wanted.
There have been a few of my coins that ended with a price much lower than what I thought they should, and I got bit, but they were coins I was more than willing to part with.
I've thought about this long and hard, and since have decided that if I have a bottom dollar, then maybe I need to set a minimum bid or reserve. If it's a coin that I'm not completely sure I want to part with or not, I'm not going to list it. This way, no one gets hurt.
I do know the feeling of watching an auction to the end, sometimes placing bids that I know are much higher than the coin is worth to reduce the risk of losing it,... then at the last minute "BANG" it's gone. It's frustrating, especially when it's a piece you really want.
I saw a broadcast the other night where one of the hosts reported that eBay drags in some $44,000.00 per minute. Of course, this income is made from sellers, and the sellers know this. eBay caters to the paying clientel, but should it be permitted that sellers take advantage of buyers and every little loophole in eBay's policies? A good example; I was reading feedback of a seller night before last,.. tons of negatives and his/her replies were sheer profanity masked as abbreviations. This person was even using the feedback reply of one buyer to lask out at another. Clearly a policy violation, but has eBay taken action? Not in this lifetime,... and lose an all mighty dollar?
I may have made a mistake and did a bad thing, but I'm not a bad person. But people who continuously and knowlingly abuse a service, or prey on the decent nature of others to make money,... it all comes back around to them in the end.
Then again, we could just drag'em out behind the barn and shoot'em in the head!
Keep smiling, and again, welcome!
Craig
I know that lot of folks start their auctions at .99 or .01 cents to get a lot of 'bids', but that won't always bring you the bid 'amount' that you want.
I don't think complaining about bidders looking for a deal is appropriate, when YOU are the one who listed it. Ending auctions early is NOT kewl, and I detest anyone who does that just because they don't get their price..............list the item for the lowest amount you are willing to accept for that item - or quit being a baby about it. There is NO excuse to do otherwise.
IMHO
edited to add: WELCOME RCDB TO THE FORUM!
Does he really exist or are you guys just making it up so you can post to this thread?
If he's for real we'd like to know.
I agree with virtually everything said. There will be no names mentioned because there is no potential to get ripped off, just disappointed. Plus, calling people out was not the intent of this post. Venting frustration was not the intent of this post. The intent was to have anyone who has done this in the past consider changing there ways after reading the responses that I was certain would follow.
Braddick, I actually have purchased a few coins from you recently and have been satisfied. I hadn't noticed you doing this. However, your reaction IS what I am trying to solicit from those that have done this, whether they repond to the post or not. The one thing that I do disagree with is that I don't believe this qualifies as a "Drama Post". If a few of you who responded feel that it is, it is clear to me that I'll be rocking this house from time to time something fierce.
J&J Coins
website
Wild Ebay Toners for sale
The big O
<< <i>There will be no names mentioned because there is no potential to get ripped off, just disappointed. >>
Name 'em and shame 'em, that's what I say. Keeping these cockroaches in the dark only serves as an endorsement of their practices.
That said, there's nothing against eBay rules about this. Of course, just cause it's legal doesn't make it right.
I've had this happen to me, but I've always just taken it in stride. For "gotta-get" coins I try to alleviate the situation by entering into a dialogue with the seller during the auction. If the seller is aware that more bids are in the pipe, he's less likely to pull the auction.
Anyways, welcome aboard, RCDB!
This is something that has been discussed a few times before. There was a big thread on the B/S/T board a little while back about it.
I will end an auction only if I've made a big error in the listing. If I can't take the risk the coin will reach my price I will start the bidding there.
eBay allows sellers to do this. It is not against eBay policy as far as I know. There are many dealers who list coins and then bring them to a show. If they sell at the show the cancel the auction. I don't think that should be allowed.
However when I list a coin on eBay I still own that coin. It's mine & I can do whatever I want to with it. I pay eBay to let me advertise it on their site for 7 days but that doesn't mean I have to. Like others said, I can sell it at a show, change my mind & decide I don't want to sell it or end the auction early & throw the thing in the garbage if I want to.
About 6 months ago I listed a Morg that was one of those coins where your collector buddy says "If you ever sell it let me have first shot at it." And you're like "Yeah yeah I'll do that, I won't forget about you." Then 3 days after I listed it, & it did have bids on it, he tells me 'Hey you said that Morg was mine but I just saw it on eBay." At the risk of incuring the wrath of some of the board members bidding (and they did send me PM's to ask what was up) I told him be be high bidder & I would use the option to "end auction early to sell to high bidder at current price" or whatever you call it and make it his. That actually cost me extra money because I had to pay "final value fees" on the high bid and he didn't actually pay me any $$, he traded me some other kind of Morgan I was needing at the time. I think if I would have been dishonest and said it was lost or made mistake in item listing & cancelled all the bids I wouldn't have had to pay the FV fees but so what.
With all that said, like I said, I don't end auctions @ the last minute (never have) because I'm scared somebody will get it cheap but I like having the option to end early in case I want to. But that's different than when a greedy dealer does it for profit.
Sometimes that works out, sometimes it doesn't. That's just the way I choose to do it, because I think the bidders will enjoy it more. I don't ever recall pulling an auction because I wasn't getting enough money for it. I do remember that when the engine of my SUV died, I sold the shell on ebay with no reserve. I pulled the auction with a day to go because the picture server died. It took me two day to get the picture server situation straightened out, and I received numerous emails in the mean time asking me why I cancelled the auction. (I answered why in the auction text itself, but apparently no one read that) Anyways, I restarted the auction a few days later, with 99 cent start again.
However, I wouldn't fault a seller that gets cold feet and pulls his/her "no reserve" auction a few hours before the end, and locks out all the snipers. I think the way ebay is setup, it leaves the way the auction is run at the discretion of the sellers, and such actions are explicitly permitted by ebay. Sellers/bidders/ebay all know the rules of the game, and as long as everyone follows the rules (i.e no shill bidding), I don't see anything wrong with a scared seller pulling his/her auction, especially if you're a sniper that's been waiting to put in a bid at the last 0.3 second. From the seller/ebay's perspective, you have no stake in the auction, since you never commited to anything. OTOH, I would be slightly more upset if I was current hight bidder, then the seller cancels all bids and leaves me hanging.
I think of it all as part of the "balance"... Because the phenonom of "sniping" exists, prices won't go up until the very last seconds, but sellers want to see progress on the bid prices and not have to wait until the last seconds to see the price increase. The equation is then simple. Fewer sniper/sniping, and more "middle of auction bidding", more sellers would feel comfortable with the no-reserve auction and keep it going.... But that's not doing to happen, so let bidders snipe, and let scared sellers pull their auctions. 'Tis the way of ebay-balance.
I have to think of a little old guy I once knew. He had to sell the collection he spent a lifetime building.
His only goal was to pay medical bills for him and his wife. I know he pulled auctions.
Greed? Was he wrong? Tough choices. I guess there is a consequence for every choice in life.
My sitsuation was regarding a business stike 1965 MS66 Kennedy. The only problem with the coin was in was wrapped in PCI plastic. It was a honest to goodness MS66- just in the wrong holder. (It has since crossed to NGC.)
I killed the auction early as it was generating very few hits and I think two or possibly three bidders. I received a civil PM from a member here letting me know it had been on his snipe/watch list. I felt pretty bad about stopping the auction early (it had been the second time in three years I'd done so due to poor turnout) I promised I wouldn't do it anymore, no matter what.
Now, if a coin sells at a large loss, oh well. That's the eBay game. Anyway... I just wanted to clarify to let you know my initial thoughts were not specific, but general.
I am pleased you were happy with your purchases from me.
peacockcoins
I to was fixin to snipe one when it was pulled from auction.I've considered doing this myself,but after reading this thread,this will be on my "not to do list".
PS I have never retracted a bid or ended an auction early.
Looking for PCGS AU58 Washington's, 32-63.