CENTSLES Can Grade

jamesfsm

It appears that Robert Johnson won Round Two of the World Series of Grading. If memory serves, this is the Robert Johnson of CENTSLES fame on eBay.

Now, I have two coins from CENTSLES. Both are tokens that I had no problem slabbing. And, the coins I have returned I have received prompt refunds. But, I have read here so many times that CENTSLES can't grade and look at their PCI and SEGS coins and such that I found it interesting that this guy is apparently a tip top grader.

My query is whether this grading distinction helps him and if he can use it as an advertising tool to sell stuff. Does it alter your opinion of CENTSLES? By the way, I have found that if you email CENTSLES about his coins he's pretty honest in describing their plusses and minuses.

XpipedreamR

I didn't know Centsles had any kind of bad reputation. I've gotten a number of great coins from him at great prices.

I've been very pleased with my Centsles dealings.

DennisH

All the coins I've bought from him have been PCGS Jeffersons. They have been packaged safely and shipped promptly -- which is more than I can say for may other dealers and people on eBay.

haletj

I bought 3 pcgs slabbed coins from Centsles. All 3 seemed overgraded but that's not his fault. He gladly accepted my return. BTW DPoole can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he got his 27-s Lincoln that sold for $4000+ in Superior's auction from Robert Johnson, in a Segs holder. I wonder how much he paid for it!

ms70

I have heard others say negative things about him here, but I dealt with him once & he was a great eBayer toward me.

keets

the knock on him has been that he sells off brand slabs, like he's some kind of a pimp for the companies. nothing in my dealings with him has been anything but positive. i think it may be a good sign that he can grade with adegree of profeciency, perhaps it figures into his purchases of those off brands.

al h.

airplanenut

I don't think his grading is really in question, as most of what he sells is in some sort of plastic--I think the problem comes when a lot of his stuff appears to be the unliked holders and not look too pleasing...

hookedoncoins

I was just reading old threads and came to this description of centsles:



<< <i>i know CENTSLES very well, it is actually several loosely associated people. they buy a lot at auctions, etc, and yes you must watch what you get form them. the main fellow (can;'t recallhis name) has had deteriorating eyesight and wears coke-bottles now, and i honestly don't think he sees many of the problems with his coins. at least 2 of them live in florida. >>



Hardly sounds like a great grader.

jamesfsm

Keets-

I don't think he buys coins in off-brand slabs. I suspect he buys coins raw and submits in bulk to NTC, PCI and SEGS. The "why" appears to be because he can negotiate cheap prices for the slabbing and that he needs a quick turnaround to keep his eBay gig rolling on.

roadrunner

Bought a very nice NGC PF 66 3cs from him via ebay.

The coins in the grading survey are heavily weighted towards popular registry sets. Not one seated coin from what I heard. HUH?
The longest lived series of the 19th century covering 5 denominations....and no representation ???????

Start tossing in bust, barber, seated, early gold, early copper, early commems, patterns, and you'll see some of those who can grade moderns/20th century just falter a bit. I know I can't tell a PF66 Kennedy from a PF67 or PF68 but I can tell a MS66.8 seated quarter from a MS67.0 and that's what matters to me.

Based on submission %'s probably most coins are later 20th century. So be it. The winner of the contest should be challenged in the 19th and 18th century too. I'm sure the cost of aquiring these coins factored in a wee bit too. Anybody got a MS64 bust dollar or matte PF65 double eagle to toss into the mix??

roadrunner

roadrunner

stman

<< <i>he sells off brand slabs >>

Newmismatist

<< <i> was just reading old threads and came to this description of centsles:

<< i know CENTSLES very well, it is actually several loosely associated people. they buy a lot at auctions, etc, and yes you must watch what you get form them. the main fellow (can;'t recallhis name) has had deteriorating eyesight and wears coke-bottles now, and i honestly don't think he sees many of the problems with his coins. at least 2 of them live in florida. >>

Hardly sounds like a great grader. >>



You gotta watch those guys with "coke bottle" glasses. They're very near-sighted & when they take those glasses off, its like having a 5X magnifying glass built in - I know - used to wear "coke bottle" glasses for years - since the lasik surgery, I now have to use a loupe, pre- surgery, just took off the glasses & I could see all the defects, clear as a bell - but I could only focus no further than 6 inches away. As for selling off-brand slabs, if you know how to grade there's some real bargains out there, you just gotta look at the COIN, not the plastic to find 'em. Everybody seems to forget that at one time ALL coins were raw. The collectors and dealers actually had to know how to grade AND they had to know how to hold 'em w/o getting their fingerprints all over 'em. Skills that seem to be relegated to the pre-computer dark ages.

uofa1285

Since it is now known beyond a doubt he can grade with the best, then I believe there is an integrity issue to be argued...Specifically, when he sells many over- or improperly-graded items in third tier holders without warnings or disclaimers as to their true grade. In fact, I believe he quotes the CU (overstated) price guide. This potentially hurts the hobby if folks buy thinking they got a deal, without understanding the certification or pricing guide worlds.

That being said, I have bought a number of coins from him in my earlier days, so I am probably being hypocritical. But, I thought I would chime in on a deliberative thread this once instead of just posting threads with pictures of coins.

Doug

stman

<< <i>Everybody seems to forget that at one time ALL coins were raw. The collectors and dealers actually had to know how to grade AND they had to know how to hold 'em w/o getting their fingerprints all over 'em. Skills that seem to be relegated to the pre-computer dark ages. >>



Say it isn't so?

relayer

So far he's one of the world's best graders.

As far as the 5 coins I bought from him, I had no problem getting a refund.

Newmismatist

<< <i>Say it isn't so? >>



Stman

It's even worse than you think! At one time (before computers, I think) to make the darn things, they'd take a piece of of metal, put it on an anvil and the hold another piece of metal over the top of it and HIT it with a big heavy hammer. The result was a bunch of funny looking "coins" that they used to trade for food and stuff - do you believe it?

I actually saw some of 'em in a museum once - somewhere in England, British Museum or something like that - some guy said they was worth a lot of money - musta been error coins, none of 'em was even round.

stman

These days I'm just a "new wave" collector. I can only judge a coin from a big blown up image linked from ebay. Then I can grade it accurate through the "in brand") flavor slab.

fullerfun4

I have purchased numerous coins, tokens, historical items, etc, from Centsles. I have found him to be a very fair seller. He does sell alot of items graded by lower quality services, but these items sell for much less than items in PCGS or NGC holders. Everyone should know by now that a coin graded by NTC or SEGS could very possibly be over graded. But I have purchased several coins from Centsles in off brand holders and they were properly graded. It is a crap shoot but it is not the fault of Centsles.
As far as unslabbed items, I have found Centsles to generally be in the ball park on grade, but at times I have been concerned about cleaning or recoloring issues. But Centsles is very easy to deal with and I have been able to return anything that I am not happy with.
Overall I'd say that as long as you are selective in your purchases, you can get good value for your money.

Gary

ms70

Showing that he can grade might just very well be a big shot in the arm to his sales OR maybe he's looking into a career
change & might get his foot in the door at PCGS!

Newmismatist

Hmmm everyone's talking 'bout this Centsles guy sellin off-brand slabs & such & accordin' to PCGS, this guy is a primo grader.

Has it occurred to anyone that he's buying this off-brand stuff cheap & creaming out the accurately graded coins & selling the dregs on ebay. I mean, there's this rumor that you can buy those off brand slabs real cheap & then if it crosses to PCGS you make a lot of money doin' that - You guys don't think this guy might be usin' his gradin' skills to make a little money on the side, do ya?

Ya know, him being kinda blind there with them coke bottle glasses an' not knowing much about buyin' an' selling coins & stuff, them gradin' skill just might give him that "little" at-vantage for this coin business stuff.

MrEureka

Has it occurred to anyone that he's buying this off-brand stuff cheap & creaming out the accurately graded coins & selling the dregs on ebay.

No. It's much easier and cheaper to produce your own "off-brand stuff", especially when you have a good eye.

spy88

Way, way back when I didn't know any better, I high bid ten NTC Jeffs of his auctions off eBay for almost $1000. When I got them, I was EXTREMELY displeased with 8 of them as they were no where near FS as the label said. The other 2 were MS68FS which I kept, and had absolutely no problem getting a refund on the others.

Never bought another NTC nor will I! Don't care WHO is selling them!

dorkkarl

i guess you don't know centsles like i know centsles! the knock on centsles has only a little to do w/ "grading". the real issue is they are 1 of the biggest coin-doctor rings out there. they (yes, centsles is more than 1 person) used to be very good, but there's some old guys in the bunch now who just don't have the knack like they used to. you'll find a lot of copper that they've gotten into pcgs & ngc slabs that's been doctored.

K S

Barry

I agree with uofa1285.

His grading skills make me think less of him. Here's a top grader who feeds off newbies by slabbing most of his material in bottom-feeder slabs. Right now, he has almost a full set of Bust Halves on Ebay, in PCI slabs. the way he operates is not an honest, ethical way of earning a living. I would never buy a coin from him, even if it were the last hole in a series, in a PCGS slab.

geb209

<< <i>Does it alter your opinion of CENTSLES? >>




If the same person, then YES, it does alter my opinion of him. Now I know that he borders on dishonesty and is not just ignorant.

mozeppa

I collect copper (lincolns) ....my only hold backs from bidding are the off company slabs and the home made slabs...but mostly his
lousy photo's of the actual coin!

they are all pink...like they've been soaking in bleach over night.