I believe he was just suspended over the weekend while a substitute moderator was watching the boards. As soon as the boss got back he was immediately reinstated.
I thought he was temporarily taken off for naming four dealers who were altering cards.
Murcerfan and John,
As fellow members of the less than 1% club, its nice to know where we stand with Joe--likes the feedback but we are not at all important in the scheme of things. He just doesn't get it!
I have always been very much pro-psa but Joe's statement that we represent 1% of the customer base is VERY shortsighted.
That would be like GM saying that the customer base is the dealerships and it really doesn't matter what the end user thinks because GM mostly sells to dealerships.
Joe, I think you should rethink your statement. The ONLY reason the dealers use psa to grade their cards is because we buy them!
I can't say it any clearer than that and I would be willing to bet the we as a group represent well over 1% of the daily market for psa cards.
Jim Crandall: Headbanger of the Dope Dragons (appropos, don't you think) Michael Wentz: Iron Horse of the Hungry Horses (not so sure about that one) Greg Schwartz: Wrench Head of the Toecutters (now, that's funny)
Joe...why put your loyal customers through all the aggravation and anxiety of re-asking an old question over and over again even though irregardless of what they say you are not going to implement a half point grading system.
A few months ago, the answer from your most loyal base was a resounding "no." So why torment those who have much to lose with a half point grading system by asking a question then re-asking every few months.
I do not submit to PSA but if I did I would be a little upset by the perceived lack of regard for the emotions of your customers. These guys may be 1% of your customer base (although I would think it's slightly higher, if you count many lurkers who use this board for information purposes only), but your most loyal customers are the ones who post and defend your company on a daily basis.
Can't say I'm pleased by Joe's referral to us as "less than 1%" of the PSA base. If they have graded 6 million cards, I am positive that more than 60,000 of those cards belong to members of this forum. The point is that the people who use these boards and fill the Set Registries are the best source of feedback for PSA. Where else can PSA get a 100 responses on any grading topic within 24 hours? If we all pulled our sets from the Registry or crossed over to GAI, PSA would certainly take more than a 1% hit. Very poor choice of words.
one of the first rules I learned in marketing is "know who your customer is". While you may think that DSL is your biggest customer, without the end user demanding PSA, they wouldn't be submitting. I am sure that you know that. Slamming us by calling us less than 1% is not good public relations.
So how many do we own. I'll start a new thread to get it going.
Ol Doctor Buck of the Popes of Hell------How did they know??
schr1st -- That link that you posted from across the street about the WIWAG incident contains a plethora of lies, misinformation and ignorance from at least three different members of that message board. You really owe it to yourself to call me sometime and get the real facts and understand the full scope of the incident.
Do you at this point think you understand all the key points that collectors would be interested in re the WIWAG/PSA scandal--if so, I would like to talk to you off-line.
the 99% / 1% comment from Joe makes total sense to me.
basically he is saying that 99% of the people who submit cards to PSA do not frequent these boards.
What it is NOT saying is that the 1% that DO frequent these boards is Not important, but rather, it needs to be understood that there are many other dealers and collectors to consider when making ANY business decisions.
I have spent 17 years in RADIO which has a similar phenomenon within it called the REQUEST LINE. A dj at a radio station may receive lots of calls for a particular song, but might never ever play that song, because in other research that the station does (and they all do research by the way) it seems that the song is really NOT that Popular.... The REQUEST LINE is really just a very small sample of what is really going on since only about 1% to 3% of your station's listeners EVER pick up the phone to call in - and MOST of them are only done for a contest! So requests via the REQUEST LINES are NOT a good gauge of what the average listeners want to hear. BUT That 1% of callers to the REQUEST LINE ARE likely the most loyal 1% of your listeners to the station so you do not want to piiss them off either....
It is a delicate balance that is very hard to manage.
I commend Joe for getting on here and stopping the rumor,
I really think that MOST of what is going on here is a Battle likely personal between Davalillo and Joe that probably should be handled Privately on the phone or in person rather than publically on these boards.
Joe O - first, some of your larger submitters lurk on these boards or post under anonymous IDs. Second, in the market for PSA graded vintage cards, most of the collectors of non-star cards post or lurk here. If you want confirmation of that, check the pop reports against the set registry. Quite often, some common with a PSA 8 population of 20 will have most of its 8s represented in the registry, often among the most frequent posters. Third, as others have pointed out, collectors, not submitters, are the end market. I expect that between 5 and 10% of all the cards PSA has ever graded are in the possession of people with forum IDs - that takes 300,000 cards, and there are an awful lot of people who post seldom but have collections in the thousands (and some in the tens of thousands) of PSA cards. Fourth, why would you expect that collectors who don't post here would have different opinions from those who do post here? Fifth, that was just plain insulting in its tone.
Davalillo -- Sure, I'd be glad to fill you in on what I found. I've made at least 8 phone calls to the Dept. of Justice, so I consider myself well informed. I was considering writing a long report on my findings and posting it on this message board, but I've realized lately that no matter what you write, someone with an agenda will twist it and turn it into just more anti-PSA propaganda.
Cubfan said, Jay and Paul- Make room for one more.
Shovelhead of the Cracked Craniums MC
Ahh....With every new member our gang grows and one day the Cracked Craniums will rule the card collecting Universe(as well as all the women and beer) .
I'm "Monkey - of the Cracked Craniums MC". I think the club they put you in must have something to do with the time you are entering your data in, unless the rest of the Cracked Craniums are 28 year old males or close to that age.
I'm "Monkey - of the Cracked Craniums MC". I think the club they put you in must have something to do with the time you are entering your data in, unless the rest of the Cracked Craniums are 28 year old males or close to that age.
Im 30 so that could be true but anyway welcome to the gang. **(note)** I prefer to call ourselves a gang becouse a club is what i beat people with!
... I was considering writing a long report on my findings and posting it on this message board ...
- dude
Could you paraphrase your findings. How were they able to accomplish this - with what equipment and materials? Isn't this what caused the redesigned PSA holder rumor?? What cards are still out there that were affected?
PSA did not initially comment due to the on going investigation. That's over now ... correct?? The sentence was given and restitution was involved? Why has Joe O never followed up with us? Is ignoring the WIGWAG scandal the best policy?
Too many questions and no answers. I collect PSA, but recent purchase considerations of high-end PSA graded cards makes me slightly reluctant. I would feel much better if PSA would only address this issue.
Both Dan and Greg(BOTN) have done a lot of legwork on this and although they are not cooperating on their investigation, they each have important facts to bring to the table.
Their is a long recent thread on the SGC boards where Greg goes into considerable detail on the results of some conversations he has had.
This will not give us all the answers but it certainly gives enough that there should be some very direct questions asked of Joe Orlando that he will no doubt choose not to answer.
Hey, could one of you guys punch in my info and get my biker name so I can start looking for a bike? My computer at home is too slow to use java, so I can't turn on my PM & I can't do the biker name thing. Thanks!
Chuck Wolff age 33 Male (duh)
Oh, anybody got Indian Larry's number?? I hear he does good work...
I really think that MOST of what is going on here is a Battle likely personal between Davalillo and Joe that probably should be handled Privately on the phone or in person rather than publically on these boards.
sixdart -- My advice at this moment is to completely ignore that SGC Thread. It is infested with an over-abundant amount of ignorance and misinformation, written by people like Matthew Natalie (VaYank) and Greg Schwartz (BOTN) plus one or two others.
I live in the Houston area and it's Super Bowl weekend and I've got a lot of other things going on. Early this coming week I'll send you a report with my findings plus some provide obvious reasons why some of the things written on that SGC thread are laughable and easy to verify as being false.
I can also send this report to any other non-anonymous CU member that doesn't have an anti-PSA agenda. Please send me a PM if interested.
Davalillo wrote:
Their (sp) is a long recent thread on the SGC boards where Greg goes into considerable detail on the results of some conversations he has had.
It's no surprise to me that BOTN refused to reveal his sources of those conversations. No credible or competent law enforcement officer would have made those quotes given by BOTN. In fact, it only confirmed what I expected all along: BOTN doesn't even understand what the WIWAG incident was about and also knows very little about criminal law. It also proved how desperate he is to make CU/PSA look bad.
Comments
I believe he was just suspended over the weekend while a substitute moderator was watching the boards. As soon as the boss got back he was immediately reinstated.
I thought he was temporarily taken off for naming four dealers who were altering cards.
Murcerfan and John,
As fellow members of the less than 1% club, its nice to know where we stand with Joe--likes the feedback but we are not at all important in the scheme of things. He just doesn't get it!
Dav
That would be like GM saying that the customer base is the dealerships and it really doesn't matter what the end user thinks because GM mostly sells to dealerships.
Joe, I think you should rethink your statement. The ONLY reason the dealers use psa to grade their cards is because we buy them!
I can't say it any clearer than that and I would be willing to bet the we as a group represent well over 1% of the daily market for psa cards.
Wayne
maybe if I send in the rest of my collection we can get a raise
..........then again, I get confused by all these rumors about outlaw biker's and what not.
urban legend or freudian slip ??
what's your 1%er name?
regards,
Smokey of the Hungry Horses MC
Ol' Dirtbeard of the Satan's Barbers MC
too close to dirtbag.
think i'll stick with the bentley
Jim Crandall: Headbanger of the Dope Dragons (appropos, don't you think)
Michael Wentz: Iron Horse of the Hungry Horses (not so sure about that one)
Greg Schwartz: Wrench Head of the Toecutters (now, that's funny)
Mine is Ol' Pretty Boy of the Donkey Punchers
J.C. comes back as 'Ol Headbanger of the Dope Dragons
Looks like I get to ride with Mikey! Oh Goody
I'm gonna stick with calling him Junior for now. Wonder if he got his wings yet
A few months ago, the answer from your most loyal base was a resounding "no." So why torment those who have much to lose with a half point grading system by asking a question then re-asking every few months.
I do not submit to PSA but if I did I would be a little upset by the perceived lack of regard for the emotions of your customers. These guys may be 1% of your customer base (although I would think it's slightly higher, if you count many lurkers who use this board for information purposes only), but your most loyal customers are the ones who post and defend your company on a daily basis.
Silver Coins
e-bay ID: grilloj39
e-mail: grilloj39@gmail.com
Im "Dirty Paul of the Cracked Craniums MC"!
Paul.
"MOOSE" of the Cracked Craniums MC
Website: http://www.qualitycards.com
Website: http://www.qualitycards.com
"Hey S'Punk - We ride together...jay"
Thats cool.....lets see who else ends up in our gang.
Paul.
Website: http://www.qualitycards.com
Always looking for 1957 Topps BB in PSA 9!
I knew i liked you for some reason........we think so much a like
Paul.
<< <i> If they have graded 6 million cards, I am positive that more than 60,000 of those cards belong to members of this forum. >>
Point well taken Mantlefan. KING KELLOGG owns 20,000 PSA cards alone.
one of the first rules I learned in marketing is "know who your customer is". While you may think that DSL is your biggest customer, without the end user demanding PSA, they wouldn't be submitting. I am sure that you know that. Slamming us by calling us less than 1% is not good public relations.
So how many do we own. I'll start a new thread to get it going.
Ol Doctor Buck of the Popes of Hell------How did they know??
Sincerely,
Nitro Dan of the White Werewolves MC
I typed in Joe Orlando's name (had to guess at his age) and it came up....
Greasy Joe of the Hell's Beerguts MC
Mike
I will start. I currently own approximately 20,800 cards give or take a hundred.
Dav
Do you at this point think you understand all the key points that collectors would be interested in re the WIWAG/PSA scandal--if so, I would like to talk to you off-line.
Jim
Make room for one more.
Shovelhead of the Cracked Craniums MC
basically he is saying that 99% of the people who submit
cards to PSA do not frequent these boards.
What it is NOT saying is that the 1% that DO frequent these
boards is Not important, but rather, it needs to be understood
that there are many other dealers and collectors to consider
when making ANY business decisions.
I have spent 17 years in RADIO which has a similar phenomenon
within it called the REQUEST LINE.
A dj at a radio station may receive lots of calls for a particular
song, but might never ever play that song, because in other
research that the station does (and they all do research by the way)
it seems that the song is really NOT that Popular.... The REQUEST LINE
is really just a very small sample of what is really going on
since only about 1% to 3% of your station's listeners EVER
pick up the phone to call in - and MOST of them are only done
for a contest! So requests via the REQUEST LINES are NOT a good
gauge of what the average listeners want to hear.
BUT
That 1% of callers to the REQUEST LINE ARE likely the
most loyal 1% of your listeners to the station so you do not
want to piiss them off either....
It is a delicate balance that is very hard to manage.
I commend Joe for getting on here and stopping the rumor,
I really think that MOST of what is going on here is a
Battle likely personal between Davalillo and Joe
that probably should be handled Privately on the phone
or in person rather than publically on these boards.
Moose of the Popes of Hell MC
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
ALL GREAT POINTS!!!
Jim
Shovelhead of the Cracked Craniums MC
Ahh....With every new member our gang grows and one day the Cracked Craniums will rule the card collecting Universe(as well as all the women and beer)
Paul.
Thanks--I will try to call you this week.
I appreciate that you are trying to do this to help the hobby--so am I--
Jim
All within an hour, my life has changed and I have accomplished the following:
Selling entire card collection.
Selling 3 Harley Roadsters. 2 already sold.
Called Billy Lane. Dropping him 75K on a 12 day turnaround super-fast custom chopper. Will collaborate with Jesse James on NOX motor.
Since I am now IronHorse of the Sons of Santa MC, I need to start getting ready for the ride.
Bye collecting world!!!!!!!!!
BOTR
Im 30 so that could be true but anyway welcome to the gang. **(note)** I prefer to call ourselves a gang becouse a club is what i beat people with
Paul.
AKA..
Ebay - mpn2gwvputty
Ratso of the Booze Junkies MC
Mastro = 'Ol Pretty Boy Bill of the Dirty Ducks MC
- dude
Could you paraphrase your findings. How were they able to accomplish this - with what equipment and materials? Isn't this what caused the redesigned PSA holder rumor?? What cards are still out there that were affected?
PSA did not initially comment due to the on going investigation. That's over now ... correct?? The sentence was given and restitution was involved? Why has Joe O never followed up with us? Is ignoring the WIGWAG scandal the best policy?
Too many questions and no answers. I collect PSA, but recent purchase considerations of high-end PSA graded cards makes me slightly reluctant. I would feel much better if PSA would only address this issue.
Both Dan and Greg(BOTN) have done a lot of legwork on this and although they are not cooperating on their investigation, they each have important facts to bring to the table.
Their is a long recent thread on the SGC boards where Greg goes into considerable detail on the results of some conversations he has had.
This will not give us all the answers but it certainly gives enough that there should be some very direct questions asked of Joe Orlando that he will no doubt choose not to answer.
Dav
<< <i>
I appreciate that you are trying to do this to help the hobby--so am I--
>>
You are so full of sh** How do you think you are helping the hobby by spreading lies?
get my biker name so I can start looking for a bike?
My computer at home is too slow to use java, so I can't
turn on my PM & I can't do the biker name thing. Thanks!
Chuck Wolff age 33 Male (duh)
Oh, anybody got Indian Larry's number?? I hear he does good work...
I really think that MOST of what is going on here is a
Battle likely personal between Davalillo and Joe
that probably should be handled Privately on the phone
or in person rather than publically on these boards.
You're Moose of the Popes of Hell MC.
Congratulations (I guess?).
And I agree with BKAH
I live in the Houston area and it's Super Bowl weekend and I've got a lot of other things going on. Early this coming week I'll send you a report with my findings plus some provide obvious reasons why some of the things written on that SGC thread are laughable and easy to verify as being false.
I can also send this report to any other non-anonymous CU member that doesn't have an anti-PSA agenda. Please send me a PM if interested.
Davalillo wrote:
Their (sp) is a long recent thread on the SGC boards where Greg goes into considerable detail on the results of some conversations he has had.
It's no surprise to me that BOTN refused to reveal his sources of those conversations. No credible or competent law enforcement officer would have made those quotes given by BOTN. In fact, it only confirmed what I expected all along: BOTN doesn't even understand what the WIWAG incident was about and also knows very little about criminal law. It also proved how desperate he is to make CU/PSA look bad.
"Popes of Hell". I like it! Thanks!
Ole Doctor Buck--
Thanks for the welcome! Let's head out West. I'm sick of the
cold here in Michigan.
riding forever,
Moose of the Popes of Hell MC