why toned coins? this used to be called tarnished?

shanks82

Why do people collect toned coins now, is this just some workings of a dealer somehwere to try to load off a bunch of his bad coins and call them "toned"?. I mean 5 years ago people wouldnt lay eyes on these coins becuase they looked damaged and tarnished. Now people are all about them? Are people just looking for something to collect now days? Its like rich people looking for something to gamble on.

coppercoins

I've been asking the same question for over a year, but I can guarantee all you'll get here is a good bashing for it.

Russ

Cool. A new, never before discussed topic. Should be interesting.

Russ, NCNE

FullHorn

ohh thats why I collect them, because some dealer wanted to unload some garbage. Darn I feel so foolish now

shanks82

i think im going to start collecting green copper cents and called them slighty "mossed" what do you think, if i could just get PCGS to certify them then i will be all set

1234567890

It is technicaly tarnish, but you have to admit that a deep subtle purple huge, or a firery red glow to a coin has excelent eye apeal.

pmh1nic

shanks82

For the most part, unless you go to extraordinary precautions, toning happens. This is primarily true of coins that are 50+ years old and especially coins that were stored in the older type coin holders or the paper and cardboard mint set. Many collectors would prefer to live with the toning (actually some toning is very attractive IMHO) rather than chemically treating the coin to remove the toning. It comes down to a matter of personal preference.

coppercoins

i think im going to start collecting green copper cents and called them slighty "mossed" what do you think, if i could just get PCGS to certify them then i will be all set

At least we would know they weren't "cleaned" or "dipped" even though they are ugly.

It is technicaly tarnish, but you have to admit that a deep subtle purple huge, or a firery red glow to a coin has excelent eye apeal.

Actually I'd prefer mine the right color. Those other colors always turn to brown or dingy black over time because of the contaminants that caused the "pretty color" in the first place.

Stuart

Some naturally toned coins are beautiful original (untouched & unadulterated) examples of the particular coin series... Many collectors prefer the because of their originality and their uniqueness (no 2 toned coins look exactly alike)...

Fairlaneman

<5 years ago people would not lay their eyes on them>

That should be "Some People" I believe.

Just to spice this up....I Hate Modern Coinage.......

Ken

coppercoins

<< <i>shanks82

For the most part, unless you go to extraordinary precautions, toning happens. This is primarily true of coins that are 50+ years old and especially coins that were stored in the older type coin holders or the paper and cardboard mint set. Many collectors would prefer to live with the toning (actually some toning is very attractive IMHO) rather than chemically treating the coin to remove the toning. It comes down to a matter of personal preference. >>



IMHO if a coin is stored properly after a proper dip to remove contaminants it won't turn again. No exposure to sulphur and other problem chemicals equals a metal that should stay as it is.

fivecents

<< <i>i think im going to start collecting green copper cents and called them slighty "mossed" what do you think, if i could just get PCGS to certify them then i will be all set >>


shanks...maybe David Hall could set up a registry set for you.

pmh1nic

Coppercoins

"IMHO if a coin is stored properly after a proper dip to remove contaminants it won't turn again."

That's true of relatively light toning but if you dip a coin that's got deep toning you end up with junk IMHO. If the toning bothers you by all means dip it. In most case toning doesn't bother me. When it does I don't buy the coin.

RYK

When I returned to collecting in earnest a couple years ago, I had the same reaction as you, Shanks, Why are people calling tarnished coins, "toned", and looking to buy them, even paying a premium for them. I have since come to understand the attraction, the originality, and relative scarcity. Well, I am generally not a collector of toned coins, I sure like to look at them.

Stuart

Just to add to my earlier post... I personally prefer not to pay a large premium over Greysheet prices for toned coins.

I prefer to purchase nicely toned coins that generally do not command premiums as high (multiples of Greysheet) as some of the specialty toned material that is very popular with a segment of toned coin collectors now...

<<=== My author icon is an example of a very attractively naturally toned Bust Dollar that is ideal for me. It's got nice a pretty metallic blue peripehral ring of toning that nicely frames Miss Liberty

LucyBop

Technically its Oxide growth due to a Chemical reaction on the surface of the silver....

MORE TARNISH FOR ME!

stman

You guys like tarnish huh? Meet "Exorcist Lady."

atomic

I dropped a 1/10 eagle on top of the wood stove the other night. The iron deposits on the gold are pretty, but is the coin now more valuable?

Let's call a spade a spade. "Toning" is corrosion. The way chemicals react with the coin metal to create various oxides on the surface of the coin is interesting. But as far as value goes... I don't like vinyl siding on antique houses and I don't like AT on old coins.

This Peace dollar of mine has a frosty finish. No idea how it got that way. Pulled it out of a bag.

Atomic

puff

Whatever floats ones boat I always say!

NYCcollector

I'm a long-time (if sporadic) collector. (I started plucking coins out of pocket change when I was a kid, over 40 years ago. I started buying again, with my kids, about six or seven years ago.) I just joined this board, and I'm impressed by the expertise and good-will of the regulars. I must confess, however, that I was surprised by the passion for toned coins. To be sure, some of the samples posted are indeed dazzling, with surprising rainbow effects. But others look. . .well, just tarnished, at least to my eye.

I also collect literary first editions. A different world, yes, but the analog to a toned coin might be a book with heavy "foxing" (i.e., dark spots on the pages). A book collector would find odd indeed the idea that an "attractive" foxing pattern would be preferable to a clean, well-preserved copy. Nevertheless, all collecting is inherently irrational, so whatever people most admire ends up being most valuable.

I prefer the blast-white coin. Apart from personal esthetics, I just have the feeling that these more pristine coins are more likely to resist the viscissitudes of fashion. But more power to both sides: the world of numismatics is only made more interesting by having a lively market in both types!

atomic

<< <i>Whatever floats ones boat I always say!
>>



puff,

Colors or not, that's one delightful coin.

Atomic

stman

puff

>>>Colors or not, that's one delightful coin.<<<

Thanks atomic...It's PCGS ms67

puff

Uhhh... stman would you like to se..... Never mind
PCGS ms68

Dog97

stman has the evil Exorcist Lady & I have the green vomit that goes with her. In a Reg Set too (read the text)

BigE

At least we would know they weren't "cleaned" or "dipped" even though they are ugly.

Not true---------------------------------BigE

Newmismatist

I'm not sure what the debate is here. I've owned untoned coins that have unbelievable blast luster, a mind-blowing cameo look, are fully struck, and if you didn't know better, you'd say it was made yesterday (I sold a Deep Cameo, Pr67 Pattern 3 cent nickel about a year ago that was so drop-dead gorgeous that you needed a bib when you looked at it!) At the FUN show I bought a common date MS 66 Morgan that was so gorgeously toned that it took your breath away, and I had go to the refreshement stand, get a napkin and tuck it into my shirt collar to catch the drool when I looked at it .

I've seen uncirculated, untoned coins, that are so ugly that if you paid me I wouldn't own it because I'd be embarressed to claim it as part of my collection, and I can say that I've seen toned coins so ugly, you couldn't spend them - the merchant would think they fake.

So what's the debate about here?

atomic

<< <i>I'm not sure what the debate is here. I've owned untoned coins that have unbelievable blast luster, a mind-blowing cameo look, are fully struck, and if you didn't know better, you'd say it was made yesterday (I sold a Deep Cameo, Pr67 Pattern 3 cent nickel about a year ago that was so drop-dead gorgeous that you needed a bib when you looked at it!) At the FUN show I bought a common date MS 66 Morgan that was so gorgeously toned that it took your breath away, and I had go to the refreshement stand, get a napkin and tuck it into my shirt collar to catch the drool when I looked at it .

I've seen uncirculated, untoned coins, that are so ugly that if you paid me I wouldn't own it because I'd be embarressed to claim it as part of my collection, and I can say that I've seen toned coins so ugly, you couldn't spend them - the merchant would think they fake.

So what's the debate about here? >>



Newmismatist,
You make the point... the debate is about taste. For example, some might say that puff's MS walkers while primo would be even better after a little dip

Atomic

Dog97

Yeah really. Which one would you want?


This tarnished up ugly 79-S in PCGS 64:



HuH? You don't think my scanner is accurate & I'm joking right?
OK so here's a picture from my camera:




Or this nice white heavily frosted not even DMPL & not even PL 79-S in PCGS 65?

PutTogether

I see it like cars, some prefer stock, some prefer modified.

1jester

"Just to spice this up....I Hate Modern Coinage......." --Fairlaneman

Now there's a neutral statement....


I agree with Newmismatist. Beauty in a coin is independent of whether or not it's "tarnished". I love nicely toned coins, and I love "blast-white" coins.

dorkkarl

dude toned coins have been in vogue for a LONG time. it's hardly a new thing. what's new is the hype surrounding toned coins IN PLASTIC.

K S

MadMonk

Attractively toned coins have always been my favorite. In my case, lets say I have a Brilliant 1957 Franklin grading MS-66. I wouldnt buy another one unless the eye appeal was better, and then having two would be a blah experience. They would be too similar. Now, I have about 4 or 5 Nicely toned examples in that date, each has it's own unique look, and I truly enjoy them when I sit down to view my collection. I really can't say I've ever done that with a brilliant coin.

nwcs

Toned coins have been appreciated for longer than a couple years! I think most collectors look for eye appealing coins. And some toned coins are sure fire eye appealing! In the end, collect whatever you like. If you don't like really awesome toned coins, it leaves more for the rest of us who do appreciate them.

BillJones

There have been distinctions between “toning” and “tarnish” for as long as I have been a serious collector. The trouble is how does one distinguish between the two?

Here’s my definition. Toning is an attractive oxidation of the metal that enhances the eye appeal of the piece. The elements of attractive include pleasing colors and a level of oxidation that has not seriously impaired the underlying mint luster. Toning goes hand in hand with concept of “originality.” In the old days that was one of the attractions that toning provided to advanced collectors. Less evolved collectors preferred “white” silver coins which accounted for a lot of the dipping that went on 25+ years ago.

Tarnish is dull, thick oxidation that has destroyed the or at a minimum seriously impaired the mint lust. It can also be lifeless dull brown oxidation that most advanced collectors would find unattractive.

To me the very high premium prices that some collectors are paying for toning are insane. I’m also turned off by the attitude that I sometimes see here than ANY toning is lovely. It’s not.

People are also fooling themselves when they see a well circulated coin with some color on it, and find that something that might be worth a premium. In most cases that toning is the result of an old cleaning, and since the coin usually has little or no underlying mint luster, the toning really doesn’t mean much. Colorful “good” toning that is worth a premium is only seen on coins that are in Choice AU or better condition. For circulated coins, the class gray toning that forms over a period of years, is really the only color that might warrant a premium price.

Shamika

"I think im going to start collecting green copper cents..."

Green copper is not "toning". If you don't understand the difference by now, nothing I can say will help.

RotatedRainbows

dude toned coins have been in vogue for a LONG time. it's hardly a new thing. what's new is the hype surrounding toned coins IN PLASTIC.

I have been collecting toned Morgans since the mid 80's and know a number of other board members have as well (or longer), it is just more attention is brought to them since the internet became popular. Also you can get some unusual looking coins like the Masked Bandit or the Baseball coin listed below.

Masked Bandit


Baseball coin

Dog97

Yeah talking about unusual.............
Toned coins are like clouds. You can stare @ them & see things.
This was "just some workings of a dealer somehwere to try to load off a bunch of his bad coins."
It's legit too, graded by NGC and in a Reg Set.


I see things in this one, that's why I collected it.
Here you see 2 Butt cheeks and their crack. I circled it for you.


Same shot, make a smaller circle and you see a Weasel's Face. See his 2 eyes and black nose in the middle?


Turn it the other way and you can see the Naked Lady in the Bathtub. See her boobs floating on top of the blue water with her long curly hair cascading down over her left one?


This looks like a mushroom:

LucyBop

weird people.....

ibzman350

Mushroom looks more like a part of the, oh never mind

Herb

Shamika

"This looks like a mushroom:"

Dog, I don't know what your momma told you but that aint no mushroom!