1967 Topps Stand-Ups

goodriddance189

i was looking through an older Sportscards Plus auction catalog and came across a few cards i've never seen before- a pair of 67 Topps Stand-Ups. Al Kaline and Frank Robinson, both NM, both with an opening bid of $1000. the catalog stated that fewer than 100 cards from the entire set exist. just how rare are they in terms of Topps Test issues? i always thought the '68 3-D set was considered the hardest to find. i've never even seen these mentioned before. anyone know the story?

1954

The 1967 Stand ups are very rare as well. I am not sure if a set has ever been put together. I first saw these cards in the auction of Sportscardsplus two years ago. They had about 15 or so available from the set. They picked up the cards from an ex-Topps employee. The Mantle I believe sold for $8000. Unfortunately, PSA will not grade these cards.
I would say that the 67 stand ups and the 68 3-d's are both very rare. Which one is more difficult???? I don't think it matters.

1954

Glynparson

i would say no question the 1968 3Ds are easier to come by. The 1967 Topps Stand Ups come both Die Cut and with out the perforations. They both are extremelly difficult but i would definetly give the edge to the standups with the recent find of 3Ds pushing up the pop some. Brian Morris who used to set up at all the old Willow Grove shows and always had a number of topps test issues was the first place i ever saw the standups around 1988 sometime. They are big cards but should fit into the new holders wonder why they wont grade them? They all sell for big money i think the mantle actually brought 5 figures didnt it i believe the Yaz also brought in the 5-7k range like many topps test issues the price guides are fairly laughable on this issue? Also Mr. Mint would occasssionally have a few pieces in his auctions over the years

Griffins

Marty Pritchard ("marty" on this board) had or has one or two on his site for sale. It seems like you'll see 3-4 sets of '68 3D's for every single '67 Stand up. I still think the '61 Dice game cards are much rarer though.

murcerfan

It seems like you'll see 3-4 sets of '68 3D's for every single '67 Stand up

Where do you see all these '68 3-d sets?? Am I missing them on e-bay or something?

cmcclelland

Yeah, those 68 3-d's are real easy to find. Especially a complete set. Come on, how many complete sets are even out there? Maybe 10 or 20 at the most? Probably less than 10 in my opinion, but I cannot imagine more than 20 complete sets have been put together. And if they are being put up for sale I'd like to know when and where. There was essentially a complete set in a Mastro auction last year, but that's the only one I have seen. I don't know all of the stats on the Mr. Mint find, but it is my understanding that there were large numbers of certain cards like Davis and Fairly (maybe 20 or 30 copies of each card), and very small or even no cards for other players like Powell, Stottlemyre, Flood, etc. I'm not saying the 67 stand ups are easy either - but I think 1954 said it best - they are both so rare it doesn't really matter which is more rare than the other.

murcerfan

marty

I had two for these cards. I had the only one that PSA has ever graded, yes they do grade these. I believe that the Dice Game are the hardest cards to find, not complete sets, but any single card.

Cubfan

Can anyone post a picture of one of these?




Thanks,


Keith

Glynparson

Dice game is definetly at least as tough as the stand ups probably tougher. the fact that the standups were never released publicly but the 3ds were, on an extremelly limited basis, is another reason i feel the standups are tougher then the 3ds (not that the 3ds are easy).

murcerfan

OK..........but no drooling !

SUPERPUNK813

mercerfan, Is that Mantle card from your collection? If so you must have a h*ll of a collection becouse i see your always putting up scans of rare or odd ball cards.


Paul.

SUPERPUNK813

I also love the 1968 3-D's!


Paul.

NickM

murcerfan - I just drooled. What are you going to do about it?

Nick

murcerfan

I'm going to recommend that you cut back on the thorazine.
.............that, OR get a bib

marty

Dave
Nice card. I'm impressed.

cmcclelland

Dave,
Quit showing off - it doesn't become you.

murcerfan

whooaa there Nellie !

I only own that one in my dreams.

Marty, I was under the impression that the actual card were too thck to be slabbed.
was the graded one from the sheet cut proofs ??? (pre-lamination production pulls)

edited to ask: hey, was Jerry Grote in that set??

Griffins

No Grote in that set. 24 players, HOFers being Frank Robby, Killebrew, Clemente, Mantle, Kaline, Drysdale, Cepeda, Mays, Aaron, Yaz, Catfish, also Rose and a few other guys (Swoboda for Dave)
I based '68 3D's being more prevelant on about 20 mastro auctions along with SCP, Lelands, and Sothebys. I found only a few standups during that time (most being SCP) but several complete sets of '68's during that time, and many groups of singles.
Colt, beware the influence of the bouncing cheese!

Cubfan

Thanks for the picture Murcerfan.



Keith

murcerfan

Steve Werley has (had) a couple '67's for sale... at retail $$ unfortunatly

Unless surfer boy here woofed them down already

Griffins

No woofing here. Unless I have a reasonable chance of completing the set I'm not biting on a single.
Nice logo, BTW, one of my favorite movies. Might make a good icon

marty

Cheeseman
I had the proofs. Jim Fregosi was a PSA 7 and Gary Peters was recolored. I do not know if the actual card is too thick or not.

67 Stand-Up pop report

I sold both of them. One night on the 54 board, MW was ripping my inventory because I questioned SGC's loose centering requirements. He posted some of the cards off of my site, I then changed one of them to the Fregosi card. That surprised him.

murcerfan

I thought PSA did not slab sheet cut or 'proof' issues.
.......

murcerfan

Just wish ole' Junior was still here.

mickeys

Someone was asking about the 67 Stand Up Kaline & Robinson - two of the Hall of Famers in the scarce set - couldn't resist since we have them both - here they are:



It a very tough set but I'd offer that the hand cut ones like Rosen's last auction are much much less desirable than the die-cut ones such as these. Also, a 1968 3D Boog Powell PSA 8 went for something like $6k in Mastronet a few quarters ago - that's pretty tough!

Mickey

Griffins

Isn't Boog Powell the hardest one in the '68 set? I've heard of a few people stuck on that one- sort of like Tim Cullen in the '70 Kellogg's set (only Boog is both rare and vintage)

mickeys

Yes :

I would rate them in the following order of difficulty (not based on pop but based on owning 2 10/12 complete sets over the years) Hardest to Easiest:

1-Powell; 2) Stottlemyre; 3) Flood; 4)Staub; 5)Perez; 6)Robinson; 7)Swoboda; 8)Clemente; 9)Lonborg; 10)Fairly; 11) Maloney; 12) Willie Davis.

We have 10 of the 12 - missing only the Stott and Flood.

Other than the last three, they're all pretty tough. We were fortunate to pick up PSA 9 Powell and Perez about 5 years ago - I haven't seen one on the market in that grade since. I'm sure murcerfan has an opinion on my list - DT?

Mick

Griffins

Mickey-
Since it was a small set and presumably they were all printed in similar numbers, what do you attribute the rarity of the Powell? Did it fall on a part of the sheet more prone to cracking? Have you ever seen any uncut sheets? I assume the reason there is a scale of rarity on these is due to condition, rather than any card being seen less than another, but it does seem like whenever you see a group of these cards it always contains Davis and Fairly and Maloney. Any thoughts?

mickeys

They were basically only sold in Brooklyn so far as I know. There were some 'proof' copies that have the Xograph stamp on the back which I assume were not sold in packs. I've seen the wrapper sell twice but never a sheet.

I think the issue was quality control. If you look at the Powell and compare it to others in the set, the background and photo on the Powell seem to be incredibly more detailed and complex. It really stands out when compared to the other cards in the set.

I'd guess that the cards that made it to packs were basically 'hand selected' rather than mass produced - since only about 200-300 total cards probably exist it wouldn't make much sense to machine cut sheets. Anyway, I'd speculate that a lot of the Powells failed some sort of quality control while they were better able to print some of the others. Two other toughies - Flood and Perez - also seem a bit more "off" in the blending of the Photo and 3D effect than the others.

Just a guess, but I'd put it out until I hear something more compelling.

Mick

bobsbbcards

ttt (fun thread)

67standup

Agree, I think I know someone who has a complete set of this rare Topps test issue.

JoeBanzai

The 67 stand ups are super tough. I stumbled across a Killebrew that is unperforated and won it in an auction several years ago. The issue I have been unable to come up with is the 1968 disc, these get my vote as the toughest of all.

JoeBanzai

67standup

Bob can certainly offer more insight than I, but the '68 discs seem to be tougher than the '67s. It's the '66 Punchout - not to be confused with the more common '67 Punchboard - that is the scarcest Topps test issue of all. Of course, there's also '61 Dice and '70 Cloth Stickers that make a case for #1 too.

Griffins

'55 Stamps are pretty tough too, but I'd vote for the '61 Dice.
Of course Bob has all of them, in high grade.

A761506

I'd say that the 66 Punchouts and 70 cloth are even rarer than 61 Dice... but these 3 are the rarest of the Topps test issues. The 67 3D Brooks Robinson has to be right up there near the top too.

Here's a neat Topps test issue that most have probably never seen (issued as part of a non-sports set, Lou Gerhig was the only other sports figure in the set):



1963 Famous Americans

bobsbbcards

<< <i>'55 Stamps are pretty tough too, but I'd vote for the '61 Dice.
Of course Bob has all of them, in high grade. >>


If you'd get off your arse and give me more referrals, I'd have more than I currently have. Hop to it!

sflayank

1961 dice game probably less than 5 of each have never seen 8 of the players
1967 stand-ups probably less than 10 each die cut have seen whole set
1955 stamps less than 5 each I have all the ones listed
1968 plaks maybe 10-15 each havent seen half the set but several umopened packs around
1967 punchouts are around need 8 captains to finish set 4 of which ive never seen
1966 double punchouts only 6 known i believe

sflayank

forgot the 67 discs avilavle in small quantities
the same for 67 san fran discs
1968 discs are much much tougher
Rare than all of these are felin franks
anyone have any let me know
also super rare 1955 ARMOUR COINS IN GOLD AND SILVER
ILL PAY A FORTUNE FOR THOSE

bishop

Has anyone seen one of the 1971 Topps All Star Rookies Artist's Proofs ? The 05 SCD Catalog listed 10 of them.

67standup

Now we get into the difference between:

Tests - distributed to public, but in limited quantities.
Proofs - used to make test or non-test card. Many variations exist within this category.
Prototypes - never distributed to public, e.g., '66 Punchouts.

With the internet, auctions, and overall relatively small circle of "advanced" collectors, you would think that we know where everything is by now.

bishop

...and errors versus variations versus print defects

bobsbbcards

...and lions and tigers and bears...oh my!

JoeBanzai

Personally, I don't think of proofs or errors/variations in this vein because they weren't intended to be sold that way. I do enjoy collecting them as a curiosity though.

I got started collecting "basic" cards and quickly decided to get all the oddball items I could find. I include any item with my favorite player (Killebrew) pictured on the front of the item in question, including team cards. Killebrew was a key player on all of the team cards, but I can certainly see the point of not including them in a "master" collection.

I am not sure if any or all of the test issues were sold to the public. I am pretty sure I have some items that were taken "out the back door" from Topps and hit the market that way, they are so tough to find, I grabbed them up. Obviously my unperforated '67 Stand Up wasn't pulled from a pack. I also have a Plaks checklist that I think was cut from a sheet and not sold to the public.

Where do you guys rate the Home Run Derby cards? They seem pretty tough as well?

This is a great thread! Have fun collecting.

JoeBanzai

bishop

For some reason, some proofs get listed in the SCD Catalog, such as the 3 1960 proofs, the 84 Encased Proofs, the 67 Maris proof and the 77 or 78 Jackson proof. Same with the variations/errors. Some make the catalog, some don't . Some people like collecting them, some people think they are a waste of time. I started collecting them after I finished the regular sets and while waiting for the test and insert stuff I still need to come along.

A761506

Home Run Derby cards seem tough, but I suspect there are more of them in existance than most of these test issues we've been talking about. The fact that more exist does not necessarily translate into more available, as they are seldom available in nice condition.

Speaking of Home Run Derby cards, if anyone has the Rocky Colavito and would be willing to trade or sell, please PM me. I have good stuff to offer in trade, and will pay significantly over any list price for it.

-Josh

bobsbbcards

If a proof manages to make it into the Standard Catalog, it definitely gets a heckuva lot more attention than those that don't. I still search eBay every day for those 1960 proof cards. Not likely to popup, but you never know. With the '67 Stand-Ups, I just couldn't wait for die cut cards to come up for sale, especially in complete set form, so I had to go slummin' and buy the proofs. What's a collector to do?

Joe,
Throw a scan up of your Killebrew Stand-Up if you get a chance (I'm assuming that was a Killebrew you were talking about). I'd like to see it. I've got one Plak checklist that I think came from a pack, but my other one seems to be sheet cut like yours. Again, you really can't complain if you've managed to snag one at all.

As for '59 Home Run Derby cards, I haven't started into those yet so I can't say too much about them. I used to think they were easy, and they might well have been in the past, but I can't remember seeing a set of them for sale (in nice condition) in any of the major auction catalogs in years.

Bob

Edited to add: Oops, I almost decided to wait for Josh to chime in about the HR Derby cards. As it was, he typed faster than me (young whipper-snapper).

bishop

Bob---I think you should collect one set of each of the 67 Stand Ups. :-) . ( I only have 15 of them and about half are proofs, including the Mantle).

67standup

What's the highest price paid for a '67 Standup? There was a Mantle (die cut I think) in a non-Mastro auction earlier this year.

As much as I'm intrigued by the '66 Punchouts, I didn't pull the trigger on the Yaz (I bid, but bowed out.) There's less of those than the '67 StandUps, but the latter seems to have a different aura about it. Maybe it's because they were distributed to the public and the Punchout has two players on it.

bishop

I was offered the Mantle both ways for basically the same price, but the Proof was in a little better shape. I wonder if the 66 Punch Outs are single specimens. I wonder the same about the 55 Stamps ( I have one of those) 70 Cloths and 71 Rookie Artist's Proofs. Do you know of any reliable history, as oppsed to industry surmise and legend about the more obscure Topps test issues ? Do you know if Topps Vault has any real background on the more obscure stuff they sell from some Topps archives files ?

bobsbbcards

<< <i>Do you know if Topps Vault has any real background on the more obscure stuff they sell from some Topps archives files ? >>


You'd sure have to think so. I guess if an issue was a personal project of Woody Gelman that was done totally under the radar, then there might not be any record, but you'd think that the number of people involved to get an issue printed would result in a paper trail.

Do we have any Topps employees on the board?

As to the theory that the '70 Cloth set cards are unique (one of each), let's try this:

I own these:
Gary Gentry, Chuck Hartenstein, Dennis Higgins, Jose Laboy, Curt Motton, NL Playoffs Game 3, Phil Niekro, and Al Santorini

I anybody has another of these, then we know they're not unique. If someone has others, please mention those too (and sell them to me....oops, wrong board).