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Here's A Mercury Dime Thread: The Latest Pop 1/0 Coin! 1919(s) PCGS-MS66FB!!
wondercoin
Posts: 16,706 ✭✭✭✭✭
OK - At the outset - I'm wrong nearly as much as I am right. If you are not making a lot of mistakes, you are not buying enough coins I am told. But, here was a very nice score from FUN!!
I screened this coin at FUN for a customer. I told the customer the coin should cross to PCGS-MS66FB. Only problem is if I was wrong, the coin was worth around $20,000 (give or take) in a PCGS-MS65FB holder and we were discussing a bid of around $100,000 for the coin to take that chance!! Needless to say, this customer displayed "BIG ONES"!!! He was well aware that several of the best upgraders in the country gave the coin far less of a chance than I was giving it. I really loved the coin and the customer stepped up. The result - one of the rarest Mercs in the series has finally been conquered! Congratulations to the man with the "big ones"!!
I asked RELLA to post the scans of the freshly made coin and the scans should be up on the thread shortly. Thanks Roger
Wondercoin
I screened this coin at FUN for a customer. I told the customer the coin should cross to PCGS-MS66FB. Only problem is if I was wrong, the coin was worth around $20,000 (give or take) in a PCGS-MS65FB holder and we were discussing a bid of around $100,000 for the coin to take that chance!! Needless to say, this customer displayed "BIG ONES"!!! He was well aware that several of the best upgraders in the country gave the coin far less of a chance than I was giving it. I really loved the coin and the customer stepped up. The result - one of the rarest Mercs in the series has finally been conquered! Congratulations to the man with the "big ones"!!
I asked RELLA to post the scans of the freshly made coin and the scans should be up on the thread shortly. Thanks Roger
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
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Comments
RELLA
who boasts of twenty years experience in his craft
while in fact he has had only one year of experience...
twenty times.
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
Edit to ADD.....Darn this probably makes my MS66 No Band coin worth less.....
Ken
the early date mercs. The MS65FB has a pop of 19 and I'd bet that number is more like 10 after you
figure the crackouts. Well this coin is no MS65FB upgrade according to that NGC tag. Just imagine if
it graded MS67FB.. Mind boggling.. Another NGC gem bites the dust...
Russ, NCNE
Yes it is - any Merc is generally worth more in PCGS plastic period.
WOW, what a cool upgrade and what a story - thanks for sharing
Marc
JMHO.
Ken
To this collector it was, as he elected to place the coin in the PCGS-MS66FB holder. While it may not match the $200,000+ which the 1919(d) sold for once in PCGS-MS66FB when it was lower pop (now pop 5/0), this pop 1/0 Merc. is obviously a HUGE coin in the series and well deserving of the grade.
Nick - you are right on with the reference to the underpop coins. The 1919(s) is a great rarity even in MS65FB grade.
Wondercoin
Ken
<< <i>Yes it is - any Merc is generally worth more in PCGS plastic period. >>
That makes sense if the grade on the holder is the same. Pretty much the case in most series. But when it's graded lower and is a rarity of this magnitude? What does that say about market perception?
<< <i>WOW, what a cool upgrade >>
I'm not real good with math, but last time I checked, 66 is lower than 67.
Russ, NCNE
is the the coin in an NGC MS67FB holder if its only a high end MS66FB. This is the finest and highest
graded 1919-S FB by PCGS. With all the talk recently about liability and buy backs you know PCGS
scrutinized this coin up, down and side ways before putting it in there holder as a top pop rarity. I'll
bet it's knocking on the door of an MS67FB grade. Value guess $150,000
Dave: Thanks.
No, there are no plans to auction the coin at this time.
Wondercoin
Ken
There's no doubt that the owner of the Joshua II set would be interested it.
Jim
I see more 1919-S mercs attaining MS-66FB with PCGS someday.
But that is a good looking coin indeed and is special since it is the first!
Congratulations to you and to the guy with the "big ones". I can only imagine the thrill that you two must have had when it came back a 66FB from PCGS. I agree with Ken in that it will bring more than the 19-D. I hope to see it in a registry set someday.
Regards,
Wayne
Wayne
www.waynedriskillminiatures.com
Al
However, this thread sounds more like a hype for the coin and the price it could bring. I should also say that I have been offered the coin four times in the last 24 hours and have turned everyone down.
Let's get some facts straight. I keep hearing about the record price paid for the 1919-D from Senator Bassano's collection. This was an aberration with two people bidding against each other and neither would stop. I do not view this as setting the price guideline. When the comparable 1918-D was sold as a MS66FB - two were made at pretty much the same time and one was sold through Heritage for $ 80,500 with the 15%. The Senator's was a pop 2 at the time also. Prices for the 1918-D at auction in 65FB have been between $17,825 and $42,550. Prices for the 1919-S in 65Fb have been between $9,775 and $12,075. Pop reports are similiar but inflated with resubmissions 1919-S at 17 in 65FB and now 1 in 66FB, the 1918-D at 16 in 65FB and 2 in 66FB. But the 1918-D sells for twice what the 1919-S does.
And prices for Mercury Dimes have dropped since the Bassano, Joshua and Dominick sets were sold.
But since the value of the coin seems to be of concern: IMHO
Do I think that this coin will bring over $200,000? No.
Do I think that this coin will bring $150,000? No but I wish the seller the best in trying to get the highest price. After all the higher that it brings the more other Mercury Dimes are worth and I will benefit.
My value? $100,000, I still think that the risk of paying $70,000+ was a huge gamble and the gentleman who bought it should be congratulated for stepping up to the plate. I certainly was not willing to do it. Sometimes you must draw a line in the sand.
I think Stewart must be rubbing off on me.
Would I like to own the coin. Absolutely yes and maybe one day I might but more than likely not anytime soon.
Joshua
Anyway, you have a spectacular Merc collection and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if one day the coin resided in there. And, like you mentioned, if it sells for too much elsewhere at any point, that might even be better for you!!
Wondercoin
<< <i>I should also say that I have been offered the coin four times in the last 24 hours and have turned everyone down. >>
<< <i>No, there are no plans to auction the coin at this time. >>
Russ, NCNE
Maybe it is plastic or maybe it is simply the highest graded 1919-S without being overgraded? I think it says a lot about they quality of grading at PCGS (I think they grade Mercury dimes technically, while NGC market grades). They are at a higher level than some of the other grading services. And, if someone hast the money, who cares what they do with it. If I happened on a coin that was worth that kind of money, I'd sell it in a heartbeat!
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
So.... now.... instead of the coin value plus the holder value one has to calculate the pop per service value as well? Sheesh.
I thought it was a customer's coin? Perhaps he's the one doing the marketing....
Hey a couple of you guys need a Welcome to the World of Mercs. Welcome...
Ken
In any event, the man with the "big set" gets to set the price on the dime now
Wondercoin
PS. IrishMike: I understand your position, but, you have also failed to take into account that the high bidder in this auction may have been prepared to pay as much for the NGC coin, if not more, than what some are valuing the PCGS coin at. Luckily for him, the #1 PCGS collector was off the coin and perhaps an upgrader or two didn't feel like slapping down $90k on an "upgrade shot" (as silly as that may sound with a "downgrade").
"plastic play" might be a better term...
I looked at an NGC MS64 seated dollar that was offered to me in those terms once. I didn't like the coin as a 64 and tried to visualize/price it in a PCGS MS63 holder. PCGS pops were 3 in 62, zero in 63 and 1 in 64 - would've been second finest at PCGS. But the way I figured it, I felt the value would drop slightly as the NGC 64 holder was worth a slight premium. Perhaps I was wrong......
TDN: This dime is still the same dime with the only difference being PCGS has also now deemed it to be the nicest 1919(s) dime they have seen to date. Indeed, both major grading services have now determined that. There is no question that the "second opinion" is worth a bunch of money, because even the top collector of the series spoke of "the price being too high for the risk involved". What "risk" are we discussing here? Namely, the "risk" of PCGS not rendering a second opinion that they also deem the coin to be the nicest specimen they have seen to date - right?
Again, SAME DIME. But, now universally agreed to be the finest San Francisco dime from 1919 BOTH services have seen. Also, as I mentioned before, just because a couple upgraders didn't chose to play on this upgrade shot at the pre-FUN auction doesn't mean the coin wasn't worth "six figures" even at the time it was auctioned off. It simply meant those upgraders selected different shot coins to place their bets on.
If this dime is worth $100k today or $150k today - IT WAS LIKELY WORTH THE SAME MONEY IN THE NGC-MS67FB HOLDER LAST WEEK. IT'S JUST APPEARS EVERYONE SEES THE EMPEROR'S CLOTHES SO MUCH MORE EASILY WITH THE LABEL "PCGS" ON THE BOXERS !!
Wondercoin
Well...the risk that PCGS would only 65 it has been removed, so the value in some eyes has increased. If a 65 is only worth $10-20k, then there was quite a bit of risk. Of course, in others' eyes, the value has decreased because the grade has gone down and the underpops have gone up, thus increasing the odds that another will join it as the finest graded.
Ouch....my head hurts!
Russ, NCNE
MY WIFE WAS THE UNDER BIDDER ON THE 1919-D AT THE BASSANO SALE BECAUSE SHE WANTED TO BUY IT FOR ME FOR MY BIRTHDAY (THE GREATEST WIFE IN THE WORLD) SHE WAS IN FRONT OF THE AUCTION ROOM AND I WAS IN THE FAR BACK I HAD ESTIMATED THE VALUE AT 75 K AT THAT TIME I EVENTUALLY UNGRADED MINE AND AGAIN IT WENT UNSOLD AT MY AUCTION AT $82,500
A MS-66 FB IN A RARE DATE WILL NEVER BE WORTH WHAT A MS-67 FB WILL
JUST A COLLECTOR AND DEALER'S OPINION WITH BUYING AND SELLING THE FINEST MERCURY DIMES
BILL DOMINICK
And, yes - many of the coins in your former set have been trumped by a higher pop coin being slabbed or the pop rising over the past 2 years. On the other hand, many pop 1/0 and pop 2/0 coins in the past couple years have skyrocketed in value in a variety of coin series as you know. I sold a low pop Lincoln cent for under $10,000 a couple years ago that just traded hands around $70,000 I believe in this market! Even a near pop 50 1932(d) quarter can now trade at over $30k when a couple years ago it was a $12,500 coin!! Bottom line, if and when this particular coin sells, it will sell for whatever a willing buyer and willing seller determine to be a proper value. Also, if the Merc series does correct low enough and pop 1 and 2 coins begin selling for less than their Roosie dime counterparts, I may just begin a serious collection of Mercs!
Wondercoin
MITCH YOUR OFF BASE ABOUT THE 1932-D QUARTER. IT IS A KEY DATE AND ALL KEY DATES ARE HOT PLUS AND THE WASHINGTON QUARTER SERIES HAS BEEN HOT EVER SINCE THE STATE QUARTERS CAME OUT.
THE MERC SERIES HAS LESS COLLECTORS IN THE ULIMATE GRADE AND YOU CAN'T COMPARE THIS SERIES WITH OTHERS DON'T EVEN TRY.
IF I HAD A 1924-S MERC IN MS-66 FB I KNOW I WOULDN'T HAVE ALOT OF WILLING BUYERS AT 50 K
I HAVE HELP BUILD ALL OF THE TOP COLLECTIONS OF MERC DIMES AND THIS I KNOW
BILL DOMINICK
<< <i>I"VE ALWAYS TYPE IN CAPS FOR FORTY YEARS AND CALL IT WHAT YOU WANT >>
Most would call it rude, and even more rude to continue doing so after one has gently been informed that it is.
Russ, NCNE
HOLD ON THEIR PAL - BILL WAS DISCUSSING THAT DEAL WITH ME!!
Wondercoin
Who shares mine, Mitch?
Don
Wondercoin
Heck no. The wife's treatin' me to a super b'day!
Just curious as to who else shares mine.
Do you have a present for me?
Don
PROBABLY NOW HE IS SETTING BACK AND SAYING " SCREW THOSE FOLKS".
GEEZ LOUISE........
Again JMHO.
Ken
If we run off all posters with bad grammer, poor etiquite and bad typing skills - those of us who are perfect can just talk to ourselves!
We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
You asserted in your first thread that:
<< <i>1924-S IN MS-66 FB DIDN'T MEET THE RESERVE AT $43,500 THIS COIN COMBINED POPULATION IN 65 FB AND 66 FB IS LESS THAN THE 1919-S AND MUCH RARER >>
. Did you mean rarer in these two grades only? I'm assuming that is the case as the 1919-S is far rarer in all grades combined in FB. How much of the relative price differences between these two coins might be due to the dispraportionate availability of the coins in the second undergrade (MS64FB)?
You also imply that several of the current 1919-S PCGS MS65FB are of nearly MS66FB quality. If that is true, and knowing how far some of the population report numbers deviate from reality, is there any chance that a number of spare tags from people trying to "make" a pop1/0 coin prior to now would bring the true slabbed population more in line with the 1924-S in MS65FB as the upgrade there would only be a pop3/0 coin and as a potential pop3/0 the current price differential does not make the investment of around $25,000 for a true shot 66 coin all that appealing? I think the potential ROI of $150K on a $75K investment makes for a tough sale...$40K or so on $25K is even less appealing.
Lastly, you assert:
<< <i>MITCH YOUR OFF BASE ABOUT THE 1932-D QUARTER. IT IS A KEY DATE AND ALL KEY DATES ARE HOT >>
. Looking a pricing it seems to me that the 1919-S in FB is the secondary key to the series behind the 1916-D for anyone targeting a set of MS64FB or better coins. Maybe the 1932-S is a better example, but is comparing it to the 1932-D all that far off? You also stated:
<< <i>THE MERC SERIES HAS LESS COLLECTORS IN THE ULIMATE GRADE AND YOU CAN'T COMPARE THIS SERIES WITH OTHERS DON'T EVEN TRY >>
. Many collectors are changing gears and collecting other series due to the increase in prices elsewhere just as WC asserts...this series seems ripe to me for an influx of fresh blood; in fact it may be the bargain series of the 20th century at this time. Do you see any reasons why the Mecury Dime series might never get its "day in the sun"?
Ken,
I went out of my way to be nice while still asking pointed questions...I see others questioning MERCS but also not being rude to him. Heck, friendly banter among Lincoln collectors looks like the Spanish inquisition compared to this. Stewart gets grief for his posting style all the time and from what I have seen takes it in stride. I for one can do without diatribe such as:
<< <i>I"VE ALWAYS TYPE IN CAPS FOR FORTY YEARS AND CALL IT WHAT YOU WANT >>
or
<< <i>I HAVE HELP BUILD ALL OF THE TOP COLLECTIONS OF MERC DIMES AND THIS I KNOW >>
, I like dealers who prove themselves to me with the quality and value of their product when I am a buyer, and with their customer service, instead of telling me they know what they are doing so I should just take whatever they give me at face value. Now I don't know Bill so I am more than willing to give him a mulligan here, but I also feel that nothing I read in reply to him looked like a call to rebuke the board from his supporters.
RELLA
who boasts of twenty years experience in his craft
while in fact he has had only one year of experience...
twenty times.
AND YOU CAN'T TEACH AN OLD DOG NEW TRICKS
HAVE A GOOD WEEKEND AND HAPPY COLLECTING
NOW YOU KNOW WHY I DON'T SAY MUCH ON THE FORUM
BILL DOMINICK