Not to pretend I am Perry Mason here but I wonder if he can also get nailed on mail fraud since I am sure that he sent these via the USPS, and if that is the case they will make him look worse than Newman on Seinfeld!
"Why is it that Superman could stop a bullet with his chest, yet he ducked when somebody threw a chair at him?" " " Go ahead and get your fancy barely visible cell phones that get the internet, play DVD's, and can speak 5 languages. As for me and my Atari cell phone it works, it weighs 7 pounds, it is 14 inches long, and it looks like I could call in an airstrike from a remote desert it is so large!"
Great, just when I decide to venture back in, something like this pops up!
Fortunately, the card I am considering bidding on is from a highly reputable seller with excellent scans, so I'm not too worried.
And, I've always wondered how easy it would be to fake the PSA labels. All it looks like is a piece of paper inserted in the slab. How hard could it be to reproduce one using a good scanner and Photoshop?
And that saddest thing of all is that if PSA drops the ball on YET ANOTHER scandal like this, then the WHOLE industry will suffer because PSA is the leader. However, if it's true that SGC, GAI, and Beckett holders are more tamperproof, then one of those guys could take the lead because credibility is such an important issue in card grading.
It's like Milli-Vanilli. They were the top of the pack back in '88. There were other singers, but these guys were selling all the records. But once they were exposed as frauds, their reputations were tainted, their sales dropped off, and other singers became number one. It could happen with PSA if they aren't careful and prove they are the real deal when it comes to legitimacy.
Curiously, I have found that SGC holders are the easiest to crack open.
What I dont understand is why a tamper-evident strip is not in these holders. Cheap solution. Many security companies offer a variety of tamper evident seals that are a minimal cost.
ALL GRADING CO'S SUFFER BECAUSE PEOPLE START TO ASK WHAT THE POINT IS.
Given the way they have handled these types of problems in the past, I do not have a lot of confidence in Joe O. When it comes to company leadership and crisis managent, those seems to be weak spots.
These types of things are going to keep happening and they will have an effect on PSA unless the collecting community, who have some heavy weight, succssful people in their own professions, start to see some real leadership from this companies president. I enjoy the Joe's SMR articles, the book is average, but I will take decisive, firm action on these matters instead.
Looks like this seller is scrambling to cover himself by pulling the images from the auctions on this thread. Still, he can't clear the Ebay history...every PSA card this guy sold is in question and all should be investigated.
He's runnin' scared and racing to cover his butt, but the noose is tightening! Yeah, I know you're reading this alex_lee 23,startac 23, and now your newest id sportsfan_99, you're done! You're scum ripping people off, and you need to do some jail time and pay a nice hefty fine to wipe away all your profits from your rediculous crime. You know, some people don't have a lot of money, and they might spend what little they have on your auction to get a card of their favorite player,that they think is the real deal, and you steal their money. You're pathetic and you know it. I hope you get absolutely no sleep tonight thinking about the trouble your in.
First of all, I'm glad their are so many experts on how PSA handles their business. I assume all of you get weekly phone calls, where PSA goes into detail about all company business for the past week. I must be in the minority that doesn't get this phone call.
Secondly, shouldn't we expect that most "scandals" are going to be against PSA? They are the leaders, and their cards (generally) realize higher prices across the board with other companies having their niches. You could seal PRO or BCCG cards with safety pins and people wouldn't bother to tamper with them, because there's no money in it. If PSA were to fold, don't you think we'd see these same scandals with SGC or GAI or whoever became #1?
Don't get me wrong, I don't condone this type of seller, and I hope PSA is very proactive in addressing this matter. However, just because I am not kept informed about every step in the process, I am not going to shout "the sky is falling". Instead, just pick up the phone and call PSA if you are concerned about this issue.
Edited to add: Excellent job by the board members who uncovered this. Very nice work.
Bernie Carlen
Currently collecting.....your guess is as good as mine.
I just sent the buyer of the PSA 10 Jordan sticker a link to this thread, asking him to check out his card and holder. I hope he wasn't taken like the rest appear to have been.
<< <i>I just sent the buyer of the PSA 10 Jordan sticker a link to this thread, asking him to check out his card and holder. I hope he wasn't taken like the rest appear to have been. >>
oh yeah he was.... I just hope that he is sitting down when he reads this thread and is able to keep his lunch down when he thinks about that 2 grand that is likely forever gone.
Given the business model, why would be so hard to include a tamper-EVIDENT seal in the holder? Why would you not? I just dont get it. No one wants a TAMPER-PROOF holder as we like the ability to resub or even cross-over. What I am talking about cost .5 a holder and puts this issue to rest. Most strips are clear unless broken and then they turn red. It would be obvious the holder had been previosly opened.
Those cracking out card to resub dont care about the old holder anyway.
Why tabe so casual about it. No I am not on weekly conf calls, but many people compain that PSA is doing little and communicating even less in regards to tampering issue's.
My question is now what from PSA? They must have read these posts? I have not received a private message from them. To 2323 i overeacted when you said you told him sorry, i dont feel it was your place to tell him though. If PSA wants to contact me through private message i have this guys full address and phone #. I actually called him about the delivery of the card as he was taking a long time to mail it. My impression was he was about 18-22 and asian.
I posted this awhile back but after seeing the tampering with the cases and the cloudy sides being a clue of tampering why not try something like this....
If the case is tampered with it will change color....I'm sure you could figure out something with the seal or sticker along the edge etc (like onsite grading...if you peel the sticker it says "VOID")
Either way, the case has issues......it will be a tough sale too with all the cards PSA has graded.
It's good to play it safe and contact the buyer of the Jordan sticker, but that slip looked like an original to me, and it looked nothing like the fake ones this seller is making.
In my opinion the Jordan sticker could be real. All of the other cards he did were the newer PSA holders and labels. That Jordan is older because the PSA on the label is smaller indicating that it has a hologram on the back. Im not saying its for sure real but he did not do any other older holders.
My post wasn't directed at you. It was more an accumulation of all the threads over the past year or two of people flaming PSA without facts or evidence. I would LOVE to see a more secure holder, but that is not in PSA's plans unfortunately. The last mention of a new holder was at the National, and it was strictly to improve the aesthetics, NOT the security. So some type of seal that doesn't take away from the overall presentation may be an option. Who knows.
I just think we take for granted the service that PSA provides for us. We have a president of a company that is accessible to us. The guy who sends in 100,000 cards and the guy who sends in 100 get the same courtesy, and that is rare in my experience. If I buy a defective TV from Best Buy, I am not going to be able to go to CEO Dick Schulz to resolve my problem. I'm going to get the high school girl whose boyfriend just broke up with her.
We may never know what PSA does. Look at E-Bay. You send in a complaint, and they send back that generic e-mail the says...(paraphrasing)..."We will check into it, but due to privacy rules, we will not be able to inform you of any action taken." Maybe PSA has a similar policy.
Bernie Carlen
Currently collecting.....your guess is as good as mine.
PSA may not contact you. They may go directly to E-Bay to get the information they need, to avoid any kind of "play-by-play" on the message boards. If the seller gave false information to E-Bay, then he may have just opened up a new can of worms.
Thanks for your diligence. It is very much appreciated.
Bernie Carlen
Currently collecting.....your guess is as good as mine.
If he gave false info. to ebay then what can PSA or ebay do? I said they should send a private email to me what they do with the info then is their business.
<< <i>If I buy a defective TV from Best Buy, I am not going to be able to go to CEO Dick Schulz to resolve my problem. I'm going to get the high school girl whose boyfriend just broke up with her. >>
And if you do it on-line..she'll be in India!!
Skip
I'll take the cards & flowers when I'm living and the BS when I'm dead!
It doesn't take a CEO to figure out the solution to this problem. The CEO of De Beers Diamonds said that if 1% of the diamonds in the market were fake, the price of diamonds would collapse. He didn't say that they would be worthless, but prices would fall.
Right now it is too early to say if PSA will be affected. Since this board has more active collectors, I doubt that most of the world knows about this or cares. I would be more wary of modern cards rather than the entire card market. Most people don't have stacks of Dr. J rookies laying around, but Lebron........
I plan to seperate the slabs I submitted myself and the purchased slabs tonight. That is the only way to be sure about a card.
<< <i>Reporting these matters to ebayis the biggest waste of time in the world. Ebay is not going to take any steps beyond suspending the seller's account. >>
If it was you or me, I totally agree. But a company such as PSA probably has much more stroke when dealing with these types of issues.
<< <i>If he gave false info. to ebay then what can PSA or ebay do? >>
I'm not very well versed in law enforcement, but I'm sure there are plenty of avenues either could take.
Bernie Carlen
Currently collecting.....your guess is as good as mine.
-There was some discussion about whether or not cards were switched or just flips. Take a look at the auctions sportsfan_99 has won recently. All low dollar RAW rookie cards. His strategy... buy really cheap cards, and increase the value by multiples of 50-100x by making them 10s??? I'm not condoning his actions, but this is a pretty good strategy in terms of returns. Much better than WIWAG's which dealt primarily in higher dollar cards and his returns would probably be more like 5-20x.
-Also, some people have suggested new "tamper proof" holders. If PSA were to change the holder, how would you feel about your "old" slabs? I would think the value would instantly drop on the older slabs, and then people would be in an uproar. And I'm certain reholder fees would not be free.
-From PSA's standpoint, the number of cards that may be tampered with are so small (not even close to 00.1%), they're better off not making a big deal about this. If a very large percentage of their cards were tampered with, they would have to issue some sort of statement and take some actions, but how many PSA graded card collectors know of this scam or WIWAG? Again probably a small percentage. If they were to go on some crusade and educate all collectors on what has/is happening, it would make them look bad. Especially when they claim their holders are tamper proof. They wouldn't risk their credibility in the hobby for something as "small" as this in their eyes, especially now with all the competition.
Good work, guys. Joe Orlando really needs to post here to let us know how this situation is being handled. I mean everybody here is panicking!! Hello?? PSA?
agreed. 75 replies and nobody corporate has even said if they are looking in to it.
off course, if there is a car accident, law enforcement doesn't release any info to the public until the investigation is complete. maybe they are investigating!?!?
<< <i>off course, if there is a car accident, law enforcement doesn't release any info to the public until the investigation is complete. maybe they are investigating!?!? >>
But they would at least confirm if there was an accident.
My hat's off to all who helped bring this scam to light. Thank goodness we have this forum, and smart members to sniff this crap out. I hope this seller gets what he deserves, and I hope PSA has some sort of response to acknowledge this.
As someone who knows how silly this whole "gem mt 10" stuff is, but still overpays for them all of the time, this is quite eye-opening. I will be extra careful from now on. Thanks again, and please...let's not rest until this guy pays the piper.
My god are you guys amazing! I haven't posted on this board for quite a while, but I just have to say something... I wish I could pull up the old threads of the WIWAG scandal... They are very similar with this thread. What was the long-term effect that it had on PSA card's values?? NOTHING! The same as this clowns tampering will have on their values... This guy is messing with such a small percentage if PSA's cards that it isn't a big deal. PSA has graded millions of cards. Say that this guy has even messed with 10,000 cards (Which I highly doubt it is even near that number), that is still a fraction of a percent of the entire popualtion. The odds of one of us ever even seeing one of these cards on the market is slim. And for all you yahoos that are panicing and wondering why no executives from PSA are commenting on this is probably the same reason they didn't comment right away on the WIWAG scandal. They are being professional and probably thoroughly examining the situation before saying something irrational. God Bless. Jesse
Always collecting vintage basketball and any ABA memorabilia.
Well said Jesse. Everyone is so paranoid right now but over the course of time, this episode will not even be a blip in the history of our hobby. The wiwag problem was taken care of and although some peopel still have questions about the details surrounding those events, it looks like that problem was quickly contained. It did nothing to the value of cards or the good name of PSA.
This current problem is so minute in comparison. So far, we have record of not more than a dozen examples. Thanks to the keen eye of delgadofan and some other CU members, it looks like this seller is stopped before his idea ever took off the ground.
WOW! This dude is in trouble. This is an unbelievable attempt to defraud(because of the devoted hobbyists that know their cards!). Good detective work!
I'm selling all my cards because the sky is falling and am going to buy and collect De beers diamonds instead; only GIA cert 000's with D color, in brilliant round cut.
Uh-oh.........if the cert is fake and the real color is K............................um, maybe I should just collect stamps instead...................oh yeah, there might be a problem here too................ah! used cigarette butts might be the answer!!!!!!!!
The wiwag problem was taken care of and although some peopel still have questions about the details surrounding those events, it looks like that problem was quickly contained. It did nothing to the value of cards or the good name of PSA.
I agree with one of those four assertions. At least for now, card values have not been affected.
I think this can and will happen again to all of the grading companies. No matter what type of security measures are taken some crook will try again. I like the color idea shown by VC but what would that do to costs and could the color still come up if the holder was banged around. Even with that someone would figure some way to steal.
I do find it is funny that some people's comments would of been different and sooner (like a buzzard on a corpse) if this were SGC or GAI. There are three that come to mind right away.
I agree that ebay would probably not do anything if an individual contacted them about this, however a larger company could convince them to do something.
An example of this is a few years ago, people were selling armor/weapons and such for the online game Everquest. Sony threatened ebay with a lawsuit if they did not begin removing auctions for such items and within a week, the thousands of auctions ebay had for those items were removed and have been ever since. Other auction sites have sprung up specifically for the selling of these items, and to my knowledge, all are still operating, in essence calling Sony's bluff.
Hey lets everyone file small claims on the seller! That will most likely wake him up.
or
Even if everyone of the board members send him an e-mail say they are going to file a lawsuit on him. But not actually doing it, That would surely wake him up. Lets see him sweat!
Even the font on that Lebron label looks odd, and I submitted the same card to PSA myself, the label on my legit one reads "2003 Bowman R & S", and then reads "Chrome" below that. I wonder if even this label is fake. And, why is he still allowed to sell this junk? I hope the heat is on him big time...
The buyer of the Lebron card just emailed me, and he also now thinks its fake. He wants to know how to get his money back. Any suggestions for him cause I think he'll be reading this?
He has to get Ebay involved with this one. He should report that the cards case is counterfit (the label at least) and demand his money back. Ebay will then contact this seller and if he doesn't respond they will suspend his account.
<< <i>Look at the case on that Lebron. Is it just me, or do the edges look frosted all the way around!?!?! >>
uhhh have you read the rest of this thread?
that is all we have talked about is this guy selling psa slabs that have OBVIOUSLY been cracked and had FAKE flips inserted to Appear higher graded than they are.
Why would anyone tip off the seller? That's like telling a drug dealer that the cops just left the precinct, and they're on their way. That wasn't the brightest thing to do.
Comments
The answer is NO. I have received cards straight from PSA that have had some "snow" around where the holder is sealed.
Paul.
<< <i>I have received cards straight from PSA that have had some "snow" around where the holder is sealed. >>
not all the way around like most of these
I hope!
and if so, SEND THEM BACK FOR REHOLDERING!
"
" Go ahead and get your fancy barely visible cell phones that get the internet, play DVD's, and can speak 5 languages. As for me and my Atari cell phone it works, it weighs 7 pounds, it is 14 inches long, and it looks like I could call in an airstrike from a remote desert it is so large!"
Fortunately, the card I am considering bidding on is from a highly reputable seller with excellent scans, so I'm not too worried.
And, I've always wondered how easy it would be to fake the PSA labels. All it looks like is a piece of paper inserted in the slab. How hard could it be to reproduce one using a good scanner and Photoshop?
And that saddest thing of all is that if PSA drops the ball on YET ANOTHER scandal like this, then the WHOLE industry will suffer because PSA is the leader. However, if it's true that SGC, GAI, and Beckett holders are more tamperproof, then one of those guys could take the lead because credibility is such an important issue in card grading.
It's like Milli-Vanilli. They were the top of the pack back in '88. There were other singers, but these guys were selling all the records. But once they were exposed as frauds, their reputations were tainted, their sales dropped off, and other singers became number one. It could happen with PSA if they aren't careful and prove they are the real deal when it comes to legitimacy.
What I dont understand is why a tamper-evident strip is not in these holders.
Cheap solution. Many security companies offer a variety of tamper evident seals that are a minimal cost.
ALL GRADING CO'S SUFFER BECAUSE PEOPLE START TO ASK WHAT THE POINT IS.
Given the way they have handled these types of problems in the past, I do not have a lot
of confidence in Joe O. When it comes to company leadership and crisis managent, those seems to be weak spots.
These types of things are going to keep happening and they will have an effect on PSA unless the collecting community,
who have some heavy weight, succssful people in their own professions, start to see some real leadership from this companies president. I enjoy the Joe's SMR articles, the book is average, but I will take decisive, firm action on these matters instead.
Loves me some shiny!
We're all watching you now!!!!!!!!!!!
Secondly, shouldn't we expect that most "scandals" are going to be against PSA? They are the leaders, and their cards (generally) realize higher prices across the board with other companies having their niches. You could seal PRO or BCCG cards with safety pins and people wouldn't bother to tamper with them, because there's no money in it. If PSA were to fold, don't you think we'd see these same scandals with SGC or GAI or whoever became #1?
Don't get me wrong, I don't condone this type of seller, and I hope PSA is very proactive in addressing this matter. However, just because I am not kept informed about every step in the process, I am not going to shout "the sky is falling". Instead, just pick up the phone and call PSA if you are concerned about this issue.
Edited to add: Excellent job by the board members who uncovered this. Very nice work.
Currently collecting.....your guess is as good as mine.
<< <i>I just sent the buyer of the PSA 10 Jordan sticker a link to this thread, asking him to check out his card and holder. I hope he wasn't taken like the rest appear to have been. >>
oh yeah he was.... I just hope that he is sitting
down when he reads this thread
and is able to keep his lunch down
when he thinks about that 2 grand
that is likely forever gone.
Given the business model, why would be so hard to include a tamper-EVIDENT seal in the holder?
Why would you not? I just dont get it. No one wants a TAMPER-PROOF holder as we like the ability to resub or even
cross-over. What I am talking about cost .5 a holder and puts this issue to rest.
Most strips are clear unless broken and then they turn red. It would be obvious the holder had been previosly opened.
Those cracking out card to resub dont care about the old holder anyway.
Why tabe so casual about it. No I am not on weekly conf calls, but many people compain that
PSA is doing little and communicating even less in regards to tampering issue's.
Loves me some shiny!
If the case is tampered with it will change color....I'm sure you could figure out something with the seal or sticker along the edge etc (like onsite grading...if you peel the sticker it says "VOID")
Either way, the case has issues......it will be a tough sale too with all the cards PSA has graded.
Jordan sticker, but that slip looked like an original to me,
and it looked nothing like the fake ones this seller is making.
vincecarder--
that is perfect! That's just what I had in mind.
My post wasn't directed at you. It was more an accumulation of all the threads over the past year or two of people flaming PSA without facts or evidence. I would LOVE to see a more secure holder, but that is not in PSA's plans unfortunately. The last mention of a new holder was at the National, and it was strictly to improve the aesthetics, NOT the security. So some type of seal that doesn't take away from the overall presentation may be an option. Who knows.
I just think we take for granted the service that PSA provides for us. We have a president of a company that is accessible to us. The guy who sends in 100,000 cards and the guy who sends in 100 get the same courtesy, and that is rare in my experience. If I buy a defective TV from Best Buy, I am not going to be able to go to CEO Dick Schulz to resolve my problem. I'm going to get the high school girl whose boyfriend just broke up with her.
We may never know what PSA does. Look at E-Bay. You send in a complaint, and they send back that generic e-mail the says...(paraphrasing)..."We will check into it, but due to privacy rules, we will not be able to inform you of any action taken." Maybe PSA has a similar policy.
Currently collecting.....your guess is as good as mine.
Delgadofan,
PSA may not contact you. They may go directly to E-Bay to get the information they need, to avoid any kind of "play-by-play" on the message boards. If the seller gave false information to E-Bay, then he may have just opened up a new can of worms.
Thanks for your diligence. It is very much appreciated.
Currently collecting.....your guess is as good as mine.
<< <i>If I buy a defective TV from Best Buy, I am not going to be able to go to CEO Dick Schulz to resolve my problem. I'm going to get the high school girl whose boyfriend just broke up with her. >>
And if you do it on-line..she'll be in India!!
Skip
ANGEL OF HOPE
Skip
TUSTIN CA
Right now it is too early to say if PSA will be affected. Since this board has more active collectors, I doubt that most of the world knows about this or cares. I would be more wary of modern cards rather than the entire card market. Most people don't have stacks of Dr. J rookies laying around, but Lebron........
I plan to seperate the slabs I submitted myself and the purchased slabs tonight. That is the only way to be sure about a card.
<< <i>Reporting these matters to ebayis the biggest waste of time in the world. Ebay is not going to take any steps beyond suspending the seller's account. >>
If it was you or me, I totally agree. But a company such as PSA probably has much more stroke when dealing with these types of issues.
<< <i>If he gave false info. to ebay then what can PSA or ebay do? >>
I'm not very well versed in law enforcement, but I'm sure there are plenty of avenues either could take.
Currently collecting.....your guess is as good as mine.
======================
Edit
======================
Just got a response from the buyer of the Jordan. He'll check into it and get back to me. I really hope he didn't get taken for a ride.
Take a look at the auctions sportsfan_99 has won recently. All low dollar RAW rookie cards. His strategy... buy really cheap cards, and increase the value by multiples of 50-100x by making them 10s??? I'm not condoning his actions, but this is a pretty good strategy in terms of returns. Much better than WIWAG's which dealt primarily in higher dollar cards and his returns would probably be more like 5-20x.
-Also, some people have suggested new "tamper proof" holders. If PSA were to change the holder, how would you feel about your "old" slabs? I would think the value would instantly drop on the older slabs, and then people would be in an uproar. And I'm certain reholder fees would not be free.
-From PSA's standpoint, the number of cards that may be tampered with are so small (not even close to 00.1%), they're better off not making a big deal about this. If a very large percentage of their cards were tampered with, they would have to issue some sort of statement and take some actions, but how many PSA graded card collectors know of this scam or WIWAG? Again probably a small percentage. If they were to go on some crusade and educate all collectors on what has/is happening, it would make them look bad. Especially when they claim their holders are tamper proof. They wouldn't risk their credibility in the hobby for something as "small" as this in their eyes, especially now with all the competition.
off course, if there is a car accident, law enforcement doesn't release any info to the public until the investigation is complete. maybe they are investigating!?!?
<< <i>off course, if there is a car accident, law enforcement doesn't release any info to the public until the investigation is complete. maybe they are investigating!?!? >>
But they would at least confirm if there was an accident.
As someone who knows how silly this whole "gem mt 10" stuff is, but still overpays for them all of the time, this is quite eye-opening. I will be extra careful from now on. Thanks again, and please...let's not rest until this guy pays the piper.
I haven't posted on this board for quite a while, but I just have to say something... I wish I could pull up the old threads of the WIWAG scandal... They are very similar with this thread.
What was the long-term effect that it had on PSA card's values?? NOTHING!
The same as this clowns tampering will have on their values...
This guy is messing with such a small percentage if PSA's cards that it isn't a big deal.
PSA has graded millions of cards. Say that this guy has even messed with 10,000 cards (Which I highly doubt it is even near that number), that is still a fraction of a percent of the entire popualtion.
The odds of one of us ever even seeing one of these cards on the market is slim.
And for all you yahoos that are panicing and wondering why no executives from PSA are commenting on this is probably the same reason they didn't comment right away on the WIWAG scandal. They are being professional and probably thoroughly examining the situation before saying something irrational.
God Bless.
Jesse
This current problem is so minute in comparison. So far, we have record of not more than a dozen examples. Thanks to the keen eye of delgadofan and some other CU members, it looks like this seller is stopped before his idea ever took off the ground.
http://www.clark22murray33.com
I'm selling all my cards because the sky is falling and am going to buy and collect De beers diamonds instead; only GIA cert 000's with D color, in brilliant round cut.
Uh-oh.........if the cert is fake and the real color is K............................um, maybe I should just collect stamps instead...................oh yeah, there might be a problem here too................ah! used cigarette butts might be the answer!!!!!!!!
BOTR
(ps. good investigative work fellas)
I agree with one of those four assertions. At least for now, card values have not been affected.
of security measures are taken some crook will try again. I like the color idea shown by
VC but what would that do to costs and could the color still come up if the holder was banged
around. Even with that someone would figure some way to steal.
I do find it is funny that some people's comments would of been different and sooner (like a
buzzard on a corpse) if this were SGC or GAI. There are three that come to mind right away.
aconte
An example of this is a few years ago, people were selling armor/weapons and such for the online game Everquest. Sony threatened ebay with a lawsuit if they did not begin removing auctions for such items and within a week, the thousands of auctions ebay had for those items were removed and have been ever since. Other auction sites have sprung up specifically for the selling of these items, and to my knowledge, all are still operating, in essence calling Sony's bluff.
Hey Tony - are you referring to estang, srs1a, and theBobs ?
"How about a little fire Scarecrow ?"
That will most likely wake him up.
or
Even if everyone of the board members send him an e-mail say they are going to file a lawsuit on him. But not actually doing it, That would surely wake him up. Lets see him sweat!
Get get these jerks!
Jery
<< <i>Look at the case on that Lebron. Is it just me, or do the edges look frosted all the way around!?!?! >>
uhhh
have you read the rest of this thread?
that is all we have talked about
is this guy selling psa slabs
that have OBVIOUSLY been cracked
and had FAKE flips inserted to
Appear higher graded than they are.