PROOF OF A EBAY SELLER RESEALING PSA SLABS!!!

Vincecarder · January 19, 2004 1:11PM

HERE IS THE PROOF FOR THE SELLER WHO IS RESEALING PSA SLABS.......delgadofan is the person tracked him down...full credit to him! You can tell by the barcodes on the scans that the labels are different but have the same serial number. This guy is changing labels on lower graded cards. Is this what WIWAG was pulling off?!?!

EBAY SELLER: startac23

FAKE FAULK AUCTION
Fake Faulk

REAL FAULK AUCTION
Real Faulk

FAKE LABEL AUCTION (MARTIN BRODEUR 1990 Score Rookie RC PSA 10)
Fake Brodeur

REAL BRODEUR AUCTION
Real Brodeur

SUPERPUNK813 · January 19, 2004 1:18PM

Not only is the bar code different but the font of PSA on the holder is different! HMMMM....

Id like to hear what others have to say about this.

Paul.

AlanAllen · January 19, 2004 1:21PM

Good work Vince and delgadofan. The fake slips are pretty good, but obviously fake. Joe Orlando needs to hear about this.

Joe

joestalin · January 19, 2004 1:25PM

does anyone still care about the graded card market now? I thought that was a fad 2 or 3 years ago! Why
would you pay X% more for one persons opinion? tamper-evident my *ss!

JS

schr1st · January 19, 2004 1:26PM

Most interesting. I'm going to love hearing the story behind this.

Vincecarder · January 19, 2004 1:27PM

This is the type of stuff that freaks me out with graded cards.....Look at all the positive feedbacks he has...how many people has he scammed? With WIWAG and now this guy....who knows how many more scam artists are making fake labels and pulling off stuff like this.

BigKidAtHeart · January 19, 2004 1:27PM

here is one he emailed to me to post about the card in question
on the other thread about this.

SUPERPUNK813 · January 19, 2004 1:28PM

I bet by now the people "across the street" are already posting that the sky if falling!

Paul.

BigKidAtHeart · January 19, 2004 1:32PM

<< Is this what WIWAG was pulling off? >>

NO
Wigwag cracked existing high grade cards and
simply replaced with a lower grade card
(then presumably resent the high card for grading
and did it again, and again.... but they never did
create flips that I ever remember hearing about.

Vincecarder · January 19, 2004 1:34PM

That Bonds has very cloudy edges....the type of stuff you see when you crack a case. How many people has this guy scammed already? Man this is pretty bad news....this guy is from my area...wonder if has a shop or anything?

Also what kind of criminal investigation can be brought up against this guy....Ebay should pull him off until everything is cleared up....

My question to this guy is why use recent auctions? Why not wait until the auction is out of Ebay's history so nobody can check up on the label? Guess he got greedy.....

delgadofan · January 19, 2004 1:37PM

Greedy and stupid, Vince it is highly unlikely he has a store from the emails and phone conversation we had.

Vincecarder · January 19, 2004 1:42PM

Hey..looking through his history...I'd really have to question this Jordan Sticker RC PSA 10 he sold for close to $2000US

Jordan Auction

PSA should look into all the graded cards he has sold....

EDIT:
LOOK AT THIS LEBRON JAMES PSA 10 CASE!!!!

HORRIBLE...the snow on the edges is crazy and this guy received a positive from this sale.....

2323 · January 19, 2004 2:05PM

I just e-mailed him and alerted him to whats going on. Hopefully he'll show up. Could get interesting!

Vincecarder · January 19, 2004 2:06PM

Looking through his history you can see he is buying PSA 8's....and low and behold...a few positives later he is selling the exact same card as a PSA 10 with a cloudy case and fake label.

PSA 8 Lebron

Becomes...

PSA 10 Lebron

2323 · January 19, 2004 2:11PM

thats a nice little profit for him. That psa label of his looks so cheesy, how is he fooling these people. I hope psa responds to this thread and fast.

CW · January 19, 2004 2:12PM

Joe Stalin, in another stroke of genius, belched:

>> tamper-evident my *ss!

Hmmm, let's see... PSA's holders are supposed to "frost" or turn white
around the edges if a holder is opened. That's EXACTLY what's happening
to the holders that this lowlife is selling! Notice how his scans are
up against white backgrounds? His flips are fairly similar, but as
delgadofan pointed out, they just don't look right. I would also bet
that the majority of his feedback was earned with legit cards, or maybe
doctored raw cards. This guy should be reported and prosecuted for mail
fraud, if not more, but he doesn't worry me. When someone can open a PSA
slab with no evidence of frosting on a regular basis - then I'll be
worried.

schr1st · January 19, 2004 2:16PM

It doesn't look like we are dealing with a real criminal mastermind here...

<< Looking through his history you can see he is buying PSA 8's....and low and behold...a few positives later he is selling the exact same card as a PSA 10 with a cloudy case and fake label.

PSA 8 Lebron

Becomes...

PSA 10 Lebron >>

wolfbear · January 19, 2004 2:41PM

No criminal mastermind is an understatement.
Looks like he opened the bottom of the slab with a jackhammer.

How can the buyer not see that there is something wrong ?

Anyway, great detective work guys ...

CW · January 19, 2004 3:10PM

To help prevent this scam, maybe PSA could better educate the collector
on how to spot a holder that's been tampered with. Sure, we all know
what to look for, but there could be a lot of newer collectors out there
who don't. PSA should put a page on their site (with images of good and
cracked slabs for examples) explaining that some holders can be snapped
or glued back together, and that all holders should exhibit frosting on
the edges if they are opened.

NickM · January 19, 2004 3:20PM

The seller changed his user ID to sportsfan_99 recently.

Nick

delgadofan · January 19, 2004 3:40PM

Yes, he cancelled all his auctions and changed his user id. Special thanks goes to 2323 for tipping him off. Why the hell would he come on here to defend himself if hes a crook?

highend · January 19, 2004 3:45PM

this is disturbing. the evidence appears convincing, does anyone have any illusions of this guy actually going to jail ? i think PSA has to come up with a better ( more sturdy) holder. i am always one to give credit when credit is due, you need a tile saw to open a beckett holder. how much will cost to reholder my PSA cards in an improved holder ?

pandrews · January 19, 2004 3:52PM

i wonder if he has a hologram on the back of his flips??

delgadofan · January 19, 2004 3:55PM

The holders he uses are the newer ones that dont have a hologram on the back but the back looked legit to me.

schr1st · January 19, 2004 8:43PM

It's not going to help him. Even if he changed all of his registration information, he had to have given somewhat legit information to both eBay and Paypal originally to get the ball rolling, and PSA can get those records pretty easily. This guy is toast.

Has anyone contacted the winner of the Jordan Sticker yet? That guy (as well as the James PSA 10 buyer) are going to have some serious claims against the seller.

<< Yes, he cancelled all his auctions and changed his user id. Special thanks goes to 2323 for tipping him off. Why the hell would he come on here to defend himself if hes a crook?

>>

Cubfan · January 19, 2004 9:23PM

Has anyone actually seen one of these in person?

It looks more like a cut and paste job for graphic purposes. Meaning to advertise a card he didnt have. But its really a terrible job either way.

packCollector · January 19, 2004 9:34PM

I agree that maybe PSA should better educate people on what "tamper evident" means. Maybe it should be included with new membership packets. They should probably also send a letter or ammendment to there terms of use to all registered members to educate them. Also, giving the same memo to dealers to have available at shows would be a good idea. maybe have a real player presentation available on the web site with a good and bad holder and the process of what happens when a holder is opened.

This is not PSA's fault. the holders are doing what they are supposed to do. All of the scans posted look frosted and cracked where they were opened.

packCollector · January 19, 2004 9:40PM

does anyone think this card has been tampered with?

I bought it on ebay to test a 0 feedback seller. there is the little puck on the right but no other frosting. I didn't pay much attention to the card outside of there is some light staining on the back and it is still unqualified. what i noticed the other day when I looked at it closely is that the holder does not really allign properly. I will probably send it in for a review before I sell it but is there anyone who had wiwag cards know if this fits the bill.

estang · January 19, 2004 10:03PM

Totally disgusting behavior. It's disappointing that the sports collectibles hobby continues to fester criminal behavior and these folks continue to find a way to trick people. In the end, all hobby enthusiasts end up paying a tangible and non-tangible price for these abhorent actions.

Someone will always try and find a way to deceive collectors and the 3rd party graders and authenticators.

However, there needs to be a plan to address this by each and every company, and do so head on. The plan should involve change and us collectors need to be accepting that change is constant and it may affect the aesthetics of our holders.

Thoughts of addressing the problem that come to mind for PSA and other grading companies are:

1. Legal. Be assertive and aggressively prosecute offenders.
2. Communications. Be forthright with the hobby and take proactive leadership on the actions that you take. I think this is where a public relations consultant would be helpful. Laying low or being reactive in your communications on the subject doesn't seem to be the approach.
3. Modify your product. I think that there's enough evidence to warrant changing the holder and making it more tamper-proof. I'm sure there's a happy medium to the collecting community on the appearance and feel of the holder and label. These culprits are attacking the very essence of what the product is suppose to be all about; integrity, consistency and legitimacy.
4. Think positive. Negative situations like this can be very opportunistic for long-term financial success, as well as qualtatively.

These are just high-level areas to address. My point is to have a plan and communicate it. Get outside consultantcy, where needed and act on it.

My point to my fellow collectors is that with this plan is going to invoke change. Not all of the change is going to be to everyone's desire. You can't please everyone, but you can appease and look to focus your changes to solicit and attain acceptance by your loyal customers. Together the companies and the collectors can win the war, just not all the battles along the way.

ndleo · January 19, 2004 10:39PM

PSA better have one hell of a reholder promotion when they finally come out with the better holder. The real question is how many other ebay scams are doing the same thing.

aconte · January 19, 2004 11:28PM

I hope that PSA will take a proactive position this time and aggressively get to the bottom of this incident and file charges on the low life that is responsible for this.

aconte... but similar to words spoken by dude....

aconte · January 19, 2004 11:30PM

Hopefully PSA can get to the source of this problem before more collectors are fooled.

aconte... but similar to the words of Koby

cardboardjungle · January 19, 2004 11:53PM

What about the PSA decoder? If a fake label is used, The psa detail wouldn't show up on the reverse (blue side) of the label (when the decoder is placed over it). I realize there is no way to tell from an auction page, but if somebody has one of these cards in question, please check it out.

It could very well be a photoshop job on the auction pic, then the seller ships a lesser grade card, or perhaps even an empty box.

Does anyone have one of these cards in hand?

jackstraw · January 20, 2004 12:00AM

they did away with the hologram sometime ago! psa is not coming up with a new holder. the bottom line is money and a mold for such holders costs thousands of dollars!unless they come up with an insert like gai,scd or sgc then they might save some bucks. i don't believe that psa wants to go in the direction of inserts. i would say that the new and more secure psa holder was a way of assuring people that they were working hard to stop such activity. i may be wrong but i heard one time about a new holder and nothing since.

boggs301012 · January 20, 2004 12:02AM

The PSA decoder was a phase they used it on the flips for less then a year. Too espensive? Doubt it. It would help in this scenario. PSA will be tight lipped about this entire problem as usual. Dont get me wrong I like PSA but when it comes to stuff this they are to laxed

James

theBobs · January 20, 2004 12:03AM

<<<<
<< Is this what WIWAG was pulling off? >>

NO
Wigwag cracked existing high grade cards and
simply replaced with a lower grade card
(then presumably resent the high card for grading
and did it again, and again.... but they never did
create flips that I ever remember hearing about.
>>>>

Saying the answer to this question is "NO" is not entirely accurate. It may be accurate to say it has never been reported or PSA has never acknowledged that WIWAG created flips. It may be accurate to say that one never "heard" this happened, but that doesn't make it so.

Unfortunately, very few people can say for certain if WIWAG created flips or not. Unfortunately, those with the best information have yet to speak in public to confirm the fraud in total or deny scenarios that did not take place.

Since no one has gone on record to say exactly what WIWAG was doing, it is left up to the collectors to speculate.

BigKidAtHeart · January 20, 2004 12:10AM

<< It could very well be a photoshop job on the auction pic, then the seller ships a lesser grade card, or perhaps even an empty box. >>

if that were the case, he would not need
crack open the slabs (as indicated by the edges)
and replace them with lesser cards.

this is a card switching scam.

and the SADDEST part is that his feedback
is actually very good. His Only negative
came from a buyer complaining about his
card being shipped slow...

2323 · January 20, 2004 12:45AM

delgadofan- Hey, I'm sorry for tipping him off, but I was not about to sit by while he makes a nice big profit off that crappy illegal reholder job. You should have his address, phone number, everything to fry this guy if you bought one of these cards from him. Too bad you didn't keep it. Great job in busting this fool, but me tipping him off didn't in any way put him in the clear, psa can have this moron any time they want. And if you don't want to get involved, send me the info., I'll do it, doesn't matter to me. He's toast, he knows it, thats why he cancelled his auctions and changed his ID. He's read every word of this thread I'm sure, now he gets to look forward to court and a possible jail sentence and a hefty fine. He'll lose a lot of money on this whole brainstorm of his in the long run.

He can cancel his auctions

He can even change his ebay ID

He CANNOT hide from all of us and PSA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

srs1a · January 20, 2004 12:46AM

This guy does not appear to be stupid. I just did a cert # look-up on 2 of the cards (Bonds and one of the James cards) and the numbers on the flip match the cert #...so he must be finding "good" numbers and then re-using them.

cardboardjungle · January 20, 2004 12:59AM

<< this is a card switching scam. >>

I'm confused now. If the guy is making fake PSA labels, he's also putting a different card in the holder?

Why would he crack the bottom of the slab to put in a new label. Doesn't make any sense. Maybe that's the only way to get into the slab.

Does anyone have one of these in hand, so we can get some perspective shots of what the doctored slab looks like?

2323 · January 20, 2004 1:02AM

Thats exactly what he's doing, he's making a whole new label. O.K., here's all his ebay ID's

alex_lee23 Mar. 22nd. 2003 - Jul. 8th. 2003

startac 23 July 8 2003 - Jan.19th. 2004

sportsfan_99 Jan 19th. 2004 - till he goes down!

he's done!

40ozman · January 20, 2004 1:18AM

I sure hope psa does something soon. I am losing confidence. While my 500 a year submissions won't kill them, I'm sure I'm not the only one thinking like this. I was a SGC submitter prior to turning to PSA, at this rate I'll be returning to SGC soon. PSA has a legit problem with these types, and they sit idle promising a new holder that will never show up. Joe for the love of god, help us.

wallst32 · January 20, 2004 1:51AM

What print/font qualities are you guys looking at to determine the difference between fake and real? Honestly, the top Faulk labled fake looks more legit to me than the lower real one.
I was going to ask if the links were reversed, but then I saw sportsfan_99 was singled out, and his card is the top one.

I saw some posts mentioning cracks along the bottom of the case a la wiwag, but all he needs to do is buy the same card in a lower grade, and crack the top of the case to replace the real flip with his fake ones.

Vincecarder · January 20, 2004 2:02AM

This guy was buying lower grade (PSA 8's) or raw cards and printing up new labels. He basically used an editing software product such as photoshop and put in the correct serial numbers he found from previous Ebay auctions. From the cracks on the cases it seemed like he first started opening the whole case and resealing it. On some of the later cards it looked like he was just cracking the tops and changing the labels (less snow)

Either way, this guy was making fake labels and that is fraud. What's scarry is nobody even thought about questioning if the cards were fake because of PSA's great reputation. The only person who questioned this was delgadofan who probably questioned the case because of previous posts on here about the cloudy PSA cases and WIWAG scams.

Think about this....if a non board member didn't buy a card from this seller...how long would this seller been able to produce fake labels? You know he would have got better over time producing less snow and more accurate labels. PSA has to do something about their cases so nobody can try this again. I hate to bring this up on a PSA board but there is no way someone could have done this on a BGS case because of the protective lip on the seal of their cases. You crack the lip and it's pretty easy to spot the card has been tampered with.

I now have to really look over every PSA card I purchase..not only looking with 10x but now looking at the case and the label with 10x...help us out here PSA.....

theBobs · January 20, 2004 2:10AM

This should be reported to the appropriate legal authorities. If Zardoz is still around, perhaps he could explain the best course of action...

BigKidAtHeart · January 20, 2004 2:11AM

<< Does anyone have one of these in hand, so we can get some perspective shots of what the doctored slab looks like? >>

here is the best scan we have to show you.

Howitallbegan · January 20, 2004 2:13AM

Vincecarder

Did you notice he sold 2 PSA 10 SI Lebron 10's with the same serial number

PS

Has anyone contacted the winners of some of these cards ?

Vincecarder · January 20, 2004 2:26AM

<< Has anyone contacted the winners of some of these cards ? >>

I think it's PSA's job to contact the buyers. This thread has given them a case to start and I hope they finish it. Perhaps they already contacted this seller and that is why all of his auctions have been pulled.

ndleo · January 20, 2004 3:18AM

For those of you waiting for swift PSA action, I hope you have a good watch because I doubt they will do anything soon. You would think the WIWAG scandal would make a new holder a priority, but after a lot of fluff about "tamper proof" technology, the scam is still going on.

Question: Is snow on the holder edge a reliable indicator of a bait and switch?

sagard · January 20, 2004 3:39AM

<< For those of you waiting for swift PSA action, I hope you have a good watch because I doubt they will do anything soon. You would think the WIWAG scandal would make a new holder a priority, but after a lot of fluff about "tamper proof" technology, the scam is still going on.

Question: Is snow on the holder edge a reliable indicator of a bait and switch? >>

I don't think it is completely. I have some cards that I submitted that have minor cloudiness on the sides.

BigKidAtHeart · January 20, 2004 4:26AM

<< Question: Is snow on the holder edge a reliable indicator of a bait and switch? >>

no, that is why everyone
is showing the different cards he bought,
switched and sold
and
the fake flips
and other info gathered

All that is the indicator!

PROOF OF A EBAY SELLER RESEALING PSA SLABS!!!

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