How does extreme cold affect coins?

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS · January 16, 2004 10:28PM

Hey Guys,

Yesterday in New York City the thermometer was hovering around Zero degrees.I went to the International show to submit some coins to PCGS.The coins,the slab box they were in and the flips were cold as..........the wicked witch of the North.I got to thinking if it gets soooo cold......could these coins be affected.Could the coins stick to the poly-bags? Could PVC from the flips leach onto the coins?What about the slabs?Do they crack if it gets any colder?I heard from some Canadian friends it was 40 below zero in Montreal.

Stewart

Lakesammman · January 16, 2004 11:12PM

I've heard that on the type 1 SLQ the nipple becomes more prominent....

MSD61 · January 16, 2004 11:17PM

Here in NH we were at -30 but I think Lakesammman is right, Miss Liberty gets some mighty THOs going in this cold weather

nwcs · January 16, 2004 11:31PM

I would wager that as long as you don't put coins in liquid nitrogen, oxygen, or similar they'd be fine if brought up to room temperature gradually. And if you do put them in LOX then please film it so we can see how cool it looks when you break it in half.

BAJJERFAN · January 16, 2004 11:37PM

I guess moisture condensation on the coins and in the flips/bags/etc is possibly a problem.

agentjim007 · January 16, 2004 11:42PM

don't put your tongue on them, coins will stick and we'll have to call the fire department.

BAJJERFAN · January 16, 2004 11:44PM

<<"I heard from some Canadian friends it was 40 below zero in Montreal.">>

A couple friends were, one from Canada where Centigrade is used and another on the U.S. border (Fahrenheit is used in th U.S.) were discussing how cold it was. Canadian sed its 40 below here. Its 40 below here too sed the Ameican. 40 below being the only temperature where F and C are equal is where we got the expression that it would be a cold day in hell before the two sides agreed on anything.

Pushkin · January 16, 2004 11:47PM

<< How does extreme cold affect coins? >>

EXTREME COLD will destroy coins. First as they get cold they, like all metals, will contract (shrink since they are three dimensional objects and start to warp in a most unsightly manner). As they shrink, they will no longer fit correctly in their holders, and they will rattle around causing a most unpleasant and irritable noise. At extreme cold temperatures, these very cold, shrunken coins become brittle and the slightest stress may cause them to shatter completely into thousands of sharp, nasty metallic pieces.

Of course, if the coins get this cold, all life on Earth has most likely ended and the loss of your investment is probably no longer your primary concern.

Never put your tongue to a coin that is really, really cold.

Never, ever let your coins get colder than -147.4 o F or you will be a very sad person.

Bananas also do not hold up well to EXTREME COLD and they behave much the same way as coins at very low temperatures.

It is important to know if your coin has been subject to AC (artificial cold) or NC (natural cold). Artifically chilled (colded?) coins are worth even less as scrap metal than are NC coins.

At Absolute Zero, coins become perfect conductors of electricity - not that anybody cares.

pontiacinf · January 16, 2004 11:57PM

stewart

I hope your not using the PCGS poly bags...I stopped using them as they were causing haze on a few coins i submitted...

and yes if those coins went from cold to hot real quick, they could form condensation and the poly will make matters worse

BillJones · January 17, 2004 12:13AM

I'd be most concerned about moisture forming inside of slabs when you move coins from extreme cold to warmth. This can be a problem for all coins, and a MAJOR problem for copper, especially red copper. Spots can form that can cost you thousands of dollars.

In general moisture is a catalyst for corrosion.

agentjim007 · January 17, 2004 12:38AM

Not much you can do if your mailing coins those puppies are not kept in temperature controlled environments before you take it into your grubby little hand.

BillJones · January 17, 2004 12:40AM

<< Not much you can do if your mailing coins those puppies are not kept in temperature controlled environments before you take it into your grubby little hand. >>

Yep! That's a risk. It's one of several reasons why I am no fan of red copper.

BAJJERFAN · January 17, 2004 12:50AM

Seal them as airtight as you can; maybe warm the air in the packaging with a hair dryer. Package them on a low humidity day if pssible. Put a label on the package to allow to warm to room temp BEFORE opening. HTH

Wisconsin · January 17, 2004 12:56AM

I have wodered this same thing myself, as last two slabbed cons arrived frozen, snad fogged up for awhile in their slab while warming up to room temperature.

Jay

CoinHunter2003 · January 17, 2004 2:35AM

I was wondering when we'd get around to that "cold" thing. Here in beautiful downtown Anchorage, Alaska,
where the temp is -27 F on another balmy day, we keep our coins warm by the fire in our igloos! Just
kidding but I have received coins by mail when the temp was -15F to -30F and I looked again today and I don't
see any harmy. Stay warm down there in the Lower 48.

Alex

Russ · January 17, 2004 2:37AM

<< I've heard that on the type 1 SLQ the nipple becomes more prominent.... >>

As soon as I saw the thread title, that's the first thing that came to mind. I should have known some perv would beat me to it.

Russ, NCNE

cosmicdebris · January 17, 2004 2:57AM

Lakesammman

Garneteye · January 17, 2004 3:05AM

Russ's statement

<< As soon as I saw the thread title, that's the first thing that came to mind. I should have known some perv would beat me to it. >>

should read: "some other perv"

Dan

mdwoods · January 17, 2004 3:10AM

I just got a so called $ in an NGC slab in the mail. It sat outside for hours in 0-15 degree temps. The slab fogged up on the outside repeatedly but I could see no sign of fogging on the inside of the slab surface. It'a a brown copper coin BTW.

lathmach · January 17, 2004 4:05AM

<< I just got a so called $ in an NGC slab in the mail. It sat outside for hours in 0-15 degree temps. The slab fogged up on the outside repeatedly but I could see no sign of fogging on the inside of the slab surface. It'a a brown copper coin BTW. >>

Hey Mark, just quit with the heavy breathing on the slab and it'll stop fogging up.

Ray

foodude · January 17, 2004 4:09AM

Good question to post to HRH and NGC to see what PCGS and NGC think. Could be one of those controversial topics...

LAWMAN · January 17, 2004 4:22AM

When I was a kid back in Boston my friends and I would always get the dumbest kid to stick his tongue on a metal pipe outside and get his tongue frozen onto the pipe. Don't reccomend this for coins whether hot or cold.

Extreme cold makes the molecules in your coins slow down.

oreville · January 17, 2004 4:35AM

What? Everyone doesn't use valet service when coming intot the hotel?

In the alternative, no one uses the patented coin humidor/warming box which keeps the coins toasty dry and warm?

Invented back in 1970 after our men landed on the moon and used one of those boxes it has been a great product. Keeps the coins warm and dry. Just don't store your hot lunch or coffee in there!

Barry · January 17, 2004 9:44AM

<< 
EXTREME COLD will destroy coins. First as they get cold they, like all metals, will contract (shrink since they are three dimensional objects and start to warp in a most unsightly manner). As they shrink, they will no longer fit correctly in their holders, and they will rattle around causing a most unpleasant and irritable noise. >>

Pushkin,
You forget that the holders will contract too. Expansion and contraction is not limited to metals. However, all materials have different coefficients of expansion and contraction, so the rate of contraction of the holder will differ from the coin.

Conder101 · January 17, 2004 5:13PM

Below zero temperature WILL damage coins made of tin. Tin has two stable states a white tin and a grey tin (metallic). At low temperatures Grey tin will spontaneously start changing states to white tin which is a crumbly powder (tin pest). (Napoleaon had problems with this. The buckles on his mens belts and other equipment was made of tin and during the russian winters they all started crumbling.)

For US coins this isn't a problem but there are some darkside coins which could have a problm with it.

knumbs · January 17, 2004 5:28PM

I noted your slab research. How can you tell which NGC holders are 1st or 2nd generation?

Conder101 · January 17, 2004 7:37PM

<< How can you tell which NGC holders are 1st or 2nd generation? >>

Very easy check out this thread it has pictures of all of the NGC varieties except the most recent ones. They have added three more since the thread was first posted

NGC Slab varieties

greghansen · January 17, 2004 9:28PM

Condensation, I imagine is the biggest risk. In addition to those suggestions already made, I'd simply throw in one of those miniture silcon packets that seems to be inside the box of every imaginable electronic device, large or small, that I purchase these days. That should absorb any moisture before it can harm coins in a standard PCGS box.

knumbs · January 17, 2004 10:59PM

Many thanks for the referral!

BAJJERFAN · January 17, 2004 11:08PM

temperatures Grey tin will spontaneously start changing states to white tin which is a crumbly powder (tin pest). (Napoleaon had problems with this. The buckles on his mens belts and other equipment was made of tin and during the russian winters they all started crumbling.)

Napoleaon? Isn't he the guy who had buttons sewn onto the ends of coat sleeves to keep his troops from wiping their noses on their sleeves while they were marching across the Steppes of Russia?

How does extreme cold affect coins?

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