FUN theft alert-Updated again

RYK · January 10, 2004 12:24PM

I just heard that a dealer that I had a transaction with at FUN was tailed for four hours into Georgia and then robbed. Be careful leaving the show.

mdwoods · January 10, 2004 12:26PM

Man, that burns me up. Damn thieves.

Russ · January 10, 2004 12:27PM

Is he okay? Physically, I mean.

Russ, NCNE

Stuart · January 10, 2004 12:31PM

To Parahprase, with a bit of poetic license from Dirty Harry, We should introduce that dealer to my two good friends Sturm & Ruger + about (6 ) .357 hollow points to bang the message home!

I'm very sorry to hear about this and hope that the dealer is well (healthwise).

Tassa · January 10, 2004 12:31PM

RYK · January 10, 2004 12:32PM

I was contacted through an intermediary. I think that he is okay (physically). He lost a lot in coins, cash, and checks (including my check) and all transaction records.

Blade · January 10, 2004 12:33PM

wow - tough to prove what you had to the insurance company when they take the records too. I hope the police get this guy quick!

itsnotjustme · January 10, 2004 12:34PM

That stinks!

Need to start using some procedures for spotting and losing tails when leaving shows. Pull into a McDonalds, then right out, same at a gas station. If you think someone is following you go to a safe haven (state police, local police, etc)

nwcs · January 10, 2004 1:00PM

Exactly. The best bet is to use the cell phone and call 911 and then go to a police station. And having a big dog in the back seat probably wouldn't hurt, either.

ElectricEye · January 10, 2004 1:37PM

The best bet is a CCW

ms70 · January 10, 2004 1:49PM

We need a separate board here to post what's been stolen from these shows.

fivecents · January 10, 2004 1:53PM

I hope the dealer is OK.
In the movie "Red October" the Russian submarine captain used a manuver called a "Crazy Ivan" this is when you randomly (and for no reason) turn around and look to see what is behind you. I do this alot when I am hiking by myself in the deep woods. Not a bad idea when driving home from a coin show.

JoshL · January 10, 2004 1:54PM

Very sad

Hope he is ok...or she

Sad Sad Sad

Be careful everyone.

lava · January 10, 2004 1:59PM

This is disgusting news, buts let's get together on this and share knowledge and nail the crooks behind it. If he/she/they stole checks, maybe they will cash them and they can be traced. Between us all, we should be able to make a case. I wish I had something to contribute other than enthusiam -- I didn't attend in person. I hope the crooks are brought to justice.

Skipper53 · January 10, 2004 2:00PM

Seems like there's a theft at every major show lately but
this is the first armed robbery I've heard of.
Glad he wasn't harmed but, what about the next one ?
This brings up another question ; how much will extra security
costs add to the cost of a dealer's coin sales ?
Homeland security has certainly had an impact on the economy !!!

baccaruda · January 10, 2004 2:04PM

I remember in college some hooligan backed into my car while I was waiting to pick someone up. I didn't call the cops but took his phone number down because he said his insurance would cover it. I had a feeling his phone number was BS, so I wrote his license plate down too. Sure enough the phone number was bogus, but I called the BMV with the plate number and they sent me his address where I promptly showed up with a couple burly friends. Seemed like a great system at the time, but I wonder if they still give out addresses at the BMV?

fivecents · January 10, 2004 2:15PM

baccaruda... the DMV no longer gives out addresses with car tag numbers. The DMV stopped giving out this information because an actress from the sitcom "My sister Sam" was stalked and killed by a stalker supplied with her address with car tag info from the California DMV.

marcmoish · January 10, 2004 2:19PM

I vote Lucy does a rip off there frankies stint

I mean it - dumb sc-m bags!!

Marc

joeyuk · January 10, 2004 2:30PM

Once I was stopped at a light and was hit from behind. The kid han no license and said he was dropping off a car at a transmission shop and his dad who owns a body shop would make the repairs. I did not want to jam him up so I took his info and then went to the police. They verified all information and gave me more then told me if they give me any problem whatsoever to contact him and he would take care of it.
This is a terrible thing that is creeping into the hobby and I hope everything turns out o.k.

ElectricEye · January 10, 2004 2:39PM

<< baccaruda... the DMV no longer gives out addresses with car tag numbers. The DMV stopped giving out this information because an actress from the sitcom "My sister Sam" was stalked and killed by a stalker supplied with her address with car tag info from the California DMV. >>

Rebecca Shaeffer was her name; I share the same birthday, yr, month and day so it kinda sticks in my head.

I heard a group of "people" hit a jewelry seller at a recent Crossroads of the West Gun Show at the OC Fairgrounds in the parking lot... 90k uninsured...

coinlieutenant · January 10, 2004 3:42PM

Is it just me or has this stuff been happening more lately?

It really is scary... I am going to have to start being alot more careful...

baccaruda · January 10, 2004 6:51PM

baccaruda... the DMV no longer gives out addresses with car tag numbers. The DMV stopped giving out this information because an actress from the sitcom "My sister Sam" was stalked and killed by a stalker supplied with her address with car tag info from the California DMV.

Probably a good thing. At that time I never would have considered that I could stalk someone thru their plate number. Geez, when my mom and dad were in high school they said they didn't even have locks on their lockers - they said no one even considered stealing from someone's locker.

Man the world is turning to crap.

Neptune · January 10, 2004 6:56PM

used to be folks didn't lock doors - but today is not yesterday. So sad. Everyone should be much more careful in these days and times.

Sequitur · January 10, 2004 7:40PM

If you're traveling across state lines, or you don't have a CCW permit, a suggestion follows. These things are the real deal -- and legal:

Taser International, Inc.

hetman · January 10, 2004 7:56PM

Horrible news. I hope the dealer is ok. I also hope the crook is caught and dealt with appropriately.

Conder101 · January 10, 2004 8:37PM

Was it an armed robbery? It didn't say that in the initial post. Typically the way this happens is the dealer is tailed and they steal the coins from his car while he is taking things in once he gets home (For some crazy reason it always seems they take their cases or suitcase in first leaving the coins out in the car unguarded. I've known several dealers who have been ripped off this way.) Or they steal them from the car while he dealer is stopped somewhere along the way to eat or get gas. This same scenario has taken place for years, tailing dealers on their way home. I can't figure out why the dealers haven't figured out to use cellphones to call ahead and have someone meet them at home so the car can always be watched during unloading. And if you get somehing to eat use a drive through. Nver leave the car unattended for a moment. Need gas? You run a much lower risk asking someone else there at the station to take your money in to pay for the gas than going in yourself. If the peson runs off with your money your out $20 -$40 dollars. If you go in and get ripped off your out a hck of a lot more.

The real problem is restroom breaks. Here the cellphone can come in handy Pull in some place public, possibly a hotel, call the business and explain to the management that you need someone to watch you car for security reasons. (B willing to pay for the service and tip the employee who watches your car.) You might even be able to do this at a police station. Stop at the station call and explain your problem and you will probably get all the help you need.

BAJJERFAN · January 10, 2004 8:48PM

I recall seeing in Converse county Wyoming a couple years ago a publication listing everyone's license plate number. Wonder if they still do that.

pontiacinf · January 10, 2004 8:55PM

once again we have to change our lifestyles for those who would rather steal than live life the way god ment us all to.

its a dam shame

marcmoish · January 11, 2004 12:01AM

Condor

Your simple suggestions are right on line - I'd like to think most dealers would do just that (including collectors) why you need not be a brain surgeon to figure out these pointers are exactly what you guys should ernestly be doing or don't cry after the fact.
The problem is the toilet thing. I personally would stay away from alerting someone at a hotel or even a PD station for similar reasons. There are alwasy some dishonest folks out there (including cops - although by and large that is not the problem) - when you mention watch the car etc etc all sorts of ideas start ringing in people minds.

I've seen a portable potty - actually my wife had one in her car last year or so for our 2 year old. It seemed to have worked great - as she is a cleaniliness freak - if it worked for her it'll work for you.

I Thank the lord I'm just a lowly collector

Marc

RYK · January 11, 2004 12:38AM

The dealer and his wife were not physically harmed.

Robert

Tassa · January 11, 2004 1:08AM

<< The dealer and his wife were not physically harmed.

Robert >>

That's good. It's terrible that they were robbed, but it could have been worse.

RYK · January 11, 2004 1:35AM

I received more info:

Dealer stopped for dinner four hours from Orlando (in Georgia) and while at dinner, passenger window was shattered and car was cleaned out.

northcoin · January 11, 2004 2:20AM

Was surprised to learn the details as they matched exactly a robbery that happened recently in Italy. I guess criminal minds think alike. I just piciked up a vehicle on 'European Delivery from the Mercedes delivery center in Sindelfingen Germany two weeks ago. As I was handed my keys the delivery person warned me that another customer had just driven his car to Italy and while parked someone had broken a window and robbed them of all their luggage, passports, and all valuables. The advice was to never leave anything in the car or trunk.

On a separate note, I noted that on my newly acquired vehicle (which had a folding rear-seat option) that one could only fold the rear seats to allow pass through to the trunk by pushing buttons in the trunk. This is a security feature to look for if anyone here is forced to leave valuables in their trunk. Several years ago I parked a rental car while on vacation to get lunch at a seaside restaurant along the Southern California coast. The vehicle had folding rear seats that could be folded from inside the car. A thief apparently jimmied one of the doors and got into the trunk that way as when I returned the trunk was empty with all my luggage gone as well as a number of Christmas presents we had just purchased. In that instance I made the mistake of opening the trunk to retrieve a camera after I had parked and someone in a nearby apartment building likely saw that the trunk had items in it. Since then if I have to get something out of a trunk when traveling I stop and do it somewhere else first before I park. (In fact it is possible that the dealer who got robbed might not have been tailed from the FUN Show, but rather created a crime of opportunity at the time he parked his car just as I had by opening my trunk to get something out of it and thus allowing someone to see it was full. For that same reason I don't leave rental car maps layng on the front seat or anything else to advertise that I may be from out of town. Who knows, maybe the dealer while eating was overheard talking about the FUN show and someone who had seen him park put two and two together.

1jester · January 11, 2004 2:22AM

This is very sad news. I'm glad the dealer and his wife weren't hurt.

Obviously, it makes a lot of sense to not stop for dinner, but it is rather challenging to never stop (for the bathroom or to service the car). If I ever stop to eat, I always park so I can at least see the car without even turning my head. I'm not a dealer, but that's just one general precaution.

HavanaJoe · January 11, 2004 2:41AM

<< baccaruda... the DMV no longer gives out addresses with car tag numbers. The DMV stopped giving out this information because an actress from the sitcom "My sister Sam" was stalked and killed by a stalker supplied with her address with car tag info from the California DMV. >>

This is true- BUT, you can still get the address in a round about way. My roommate was rear-ended at a red light and the driver simply drove away. He followed her for about a mile and then wrote down the license plate number. He went to the police station and filed a report, then he called his insurance company and gave them her plate number. A week later he got a claim letter to sign that had all of her personal information (name, address, phone number, etc.). Of course, by now the police department and insurance company had his name all over the place, so if anything "happend" to her he would be picked up immediately- BUT, he did end up with her information. He's a normal and peaceful guy, but even he was still tempted to show up at her door- imagine if he were some kind of nut?

Conder101 · January 11, 2004 3:29AM

<< Was surprised to learn the details as they matched exactly a robbery that happened recently in Italy. >>

I'm not surprised at all. This exact same MO, Tail, smash a window (sometimes just open the door because it is unlocked), grab valuables and take off once they stop to eat or are unloading after they get home, has been occuring regularly to dealers for well over twenty years and they are still falling for it. I hear at least a half dozen of reports exactly like this each year. Even when dealers are traveling together! They stop at a restraunt and ALL of them go in leaving the vehicle unattended! Oh it was visible from their booth. They got to their booth just in time to watch their car driving out of the lot.

NEVER leave the vehicle unattended. And always check you tires before you leave the show. For awhile there was a gang that used to partially slash their selected victims tires and then follow him waiting for the tires to blow out then stopping and robbing him while he was getting his spare out of the trunk and had all his cases out of the car so he could get to it.

ElectricEye · January 11, 2004 4:27AM

<< This is true- BUT, you can still get the address in a round about way >>

Private investigators have a network of people to call on for that type of info ~

Russ · January 11, 2004 4:41AM

<< This is true- BUT, you can still get the address in a round about way >>

Here in Washington one need only go to the DMV and pay the $10 fee.

Russ, NCNE

RGL · January 11, 2004 5:09AM

If you have access to the right subscription database, you can find out most anything on anybody. With a name, I can learn your address, date of birth, what your home is worth, if you have had any criminal, civil or tax lien judgments against you, the name of your children and wife, the make and model of cars, boats, etc., registered to you and their plate numbers, your driving record, any businesses incorporated in your name, any professional licenses you own (and any related disciplinary record), if you voted in a Republican or Democrat primary, your salary (if you are a government employee) etc....

Shamika · January 11, 2004 5:27AM

Question: Is there a database listing serial numbers of stolen slabs?

deltadon · January 11, 2004 5:54AM

PERSONALLY, I TRY NOT KEEP ANY COINS AT HOME OR IN MY CAR AND I NEVER GIVE OUT MY HOME ADDRESS. I USE A P.O. FOR ALL COIN-RELATED ACTIVITY. IF I PURCHASE COINS FROM ANYONE ON THE ROAD, I PACKAGE THEM UP AND SEND THEM REGISTERED MAIL AS SOON AS I CAN GET TO THE P.O. OR I HAVE THE DEALER SEND THEM TO ME. IT'S A GREAT HOBBY BUT ITS NOT WORTH PUTTING YOUR LIFE AT RISK. YOU JUST NEVER KNOW WHO IS LURKING AROUND THE CORNER THESE DAYS.

NoGvmnt · January 11, 2004 2:09PM

"PERSONALLY, I TRY NOT KEEP ANY COINS AT HOME OR IN MY CAR AND I NEVER GIVE OUT MY HOME ADDRESS. I USE A P.O. FOR ALL COIN-RELATED ACTIVITY. IF I PURCHASE COINS FROM ANYONE ON THE ROAD, I PACKAGE THEM UP AND SEND THEM REGISTERED MAIL AS SOON AS I CAN GET TO THE P.O. OR I HAVE THE DEALER SEND THEM TO ME. IT'S A GREAT HOBBY BUT ITS NOT WORTH PUTTING YOUR LIFE AT RISK. YOU JUST NEVER KNOW WHO IS LURKING AROUND THE CORNER THESE DAYS."

Don, check your PM.

It's really easier than you think.

Jim

fullerfun4 · January 11, 2004 3:04PM

A favorite MO has been to follow the victim and when he stops, someone jumps out and uses an ice pick on a tire. After a slow leak, the victim gets out to change the tire. The suspects come by and "lend a hand" or ask a question to distract the victim. A quick snatch and grab and their gone. Here in Los Angeles this has been traditionally done by Columbian gangs. Be careful out there. It's a dangerous world.

AmericanSilverEagleCoins · January 11, 2004 3:14PM

It's a shame that we may now need armored transport to move our collections around.

Johnscoin · January 12, 2004 3:04AM

Anybody have a name of the dealer so that we can try to get a list of the stolen items and can follow up on checks we may have dispursed?
Thanks!
John

mnmcoin · January 12, 2004 7:45AM

FUN is always known for theft. I never many, many stories...Jeff Werlin a good friend of mine had some major coins (including a 53 dcam nickel that he just made at FUN, and some other I can't remember) lifted out of his rental car...I think it was 3 years ago. He ran in to a convenience store to use the rest room, he was gone 90 seconds and came back to a car with a smashed in rear window and about $50k in coins gone. That was my first FUN show, and I got sick to my stomach when I heard about this.

From what I have heard from several long time dealers, they (a known thievery ring) bring people up from Cuba, train them in the fine art of stealing, burglarizing and even mugging. The FUN show is one of their big events of the year.

I heard a story from Gene Henry about one year he was leaving from the airpost with some other people. A group of "them" followed them through the entire airport and even starting circling them and their bags while they were waiting to board their flight.

You have to be really, really careful when you attend a show...and not just dealers. Be cautious and alert and remember just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they are not after you.

morris <><

nepbrs44 · January 12, 2004 7:58AM

It's just a shame!! You really have to be careful these days. I am glad to hear that the deaker was not hurt (and of course his wife)

baccaruda · January 12, 2004 8:06AM

I park at a train station and leave my car there all day while I'm in Chicago. So many people have had their cars broken into or stolen. I think the city's money would be well-spent in hiring a sniper to watch the parking lot from a nearby building.

What better deterent to theft than seeing a dead body hanging in the parking lot with a sign around it's neck that says "the spoils of thievery". I think I'd find a new line of work.

AACoinCo · January 12, 2004 10:45AM

Every year FUN has a few thefts. I spoke with a dealer today who was asked to stop payment on one of the stolen checks from this robbery and he said that it was an armed robbery while the dealer was away from the car eating. You never know and can't be careful enough. If anyone runs into Steve Ellesworth he has great experience in this area and would be happy to share his thoughts about how to make your journey safer!

RYK · January 12, 2004 11:09AM

The dealer is "Phil's Coins", and he was set up with the Gold Rush Gallery group.--I will (hopefully) get a list of stolen coins to post soon.

Neptune · January 12, 2004 8:58PM

Sounds like everyone needs to start setting up to travel is pairs or groups - set a trap and show 'em who's boss.

FUN theft alert-Updated again

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