1963 PR70DC PCGS Lincoln cent - Auction

Cameo CC

Wow! This coin is at $36,000 today (1/7/04) - With the fees $40,250.00 - Not bad for a one year investment. Wow - dropped as of 4PM EST.

Here is the link

Looks like the maket is strong (or not so).

Todd

kranky

I would agree it's strong for 1963 PCGS PR70DC Lincolns! I will have to come to terms with the fact that grade rarity has forever changed the market.

dorkkarl

huh??? the market is "strong" based on 1 coin???

or do you mean "the market for a specific 1963 penny in a specific piece of plastic" is strong?

K S

Cameo CC

Dorkkarl,

It is strong for this coin. As for the rest of the coin industry, we will know more on Monday after the Fun Show.

What this does tell me is that someone or a group of people are coming into the modern market in a strong way.

Todd

IrishMike

....a strong and clueless way. This hot potato coin will end up burning someone, someday. I am sure someone will post a defense to the collectors that buy this crap with the thought of look how much money the previous owner made on it. I say so what, doesn't change the fact that this coin should be off the market.

jeffnpcb

I believe that the main bidder on this coin is some guy using HRH are a users' name!

I honestly don't believe the gavel will fall on this DAWG and should be pulled for the obvious reasons in previous posts!

dbldie55

They have added the images showing just how bad this coin is now. Before, it looked fine and nothing wrong is denoted in the description. I wonder what the high bidder thinks now?

I would hate to think the market is determined by spotted proof coins.

MadMarty

But they are the highest graded spots for that date!!! Buy the holder, not the coin!!!!

KollectorKing

Sorry if this is a redundant question, but has anyone asked HRH for his opinion/comments on this coin?

Russ

<< <i>They have added the images showing just how bad this coin is now. Before, it looked fine and nothing wrong is denoted in the description. I wonder what the high bidder thinks now? >>



They added that image nine days ago, (12.29.03), when the coin was at $28,750.00 so apparently the high bidder thinks it looks just fine.



<< <i>I would agree it's strong for 1963 PCGS PR70DC Lincolns! >>



"Strong" isn't exactly the word that pops in to my head. More like insane.

Russ, NCNE

mgoodm3

Bidding war between HRH and Bill Gates.

SeattleSlammer

Gee, I wonder how many hundreds of thousands of proof 1963 cents haven't even been graded yet....

PCGS could have given this a 69 on any other day.

Perhaps the worst case of buying the plastic EVER.

Modern coins suck.

Russ

<< <i>Modern coins suck. >>



Yeah, they do. And, this single example sure proves it.

Russ, NCNE

SeattleSlammer

Actually, they sucked long before this single example came about....

mgoodm3

Posting statements about moderns like that is like calling cladking on the batphone.

sadysta1

If you magnifu yjr coin you can see a nice hit under UNUM

Dave99B

Who said "There's a sucker born every minute...." ? I think it applies here.


Dave

Russ

<< <i>Who said "There's a sucker born every minute...." ? I think it applies here. >>



Somebody said it about a year ago when the consignor of this coin purchased it for $39,100.

Russ, NCNE

Wondo

<< <i>Who said "There's a sucker born every minute...." ? >>




Mrs. P.T. Barnum - the inventor of the baby bottle.

IrishMike

the bigger fool theory always has and will supercede a sucker is born every minute. The only thing that supercedes the first theory is denial or registryitis.

Russ

Personally, I think the only logical explanation for the thing getting bid this high is that it's being bought back by PCGS. Nothing else makes any sense to me.

Russ, NCNE

tradedollarnut

Personally, I think the only logical explanation for the thing getting bid this high is that it's being bought back by PCGS. Nothing else makes any sense to me.

Or NGC..... maybe they're fighting it out against each other!

Wondo

Not sure that I agree with you, Russ. That would still take two bidders. Of course, maybe NGC has a vested interest.


It could also be a couple of kooks with giant pocketbooks and wacky egos

or...

maybe some nutbags who have no intention of ponying up when it commes to writing the check!

Wondo

TDN,

Warped minds think alike!

SarasotaFrank

<< <i>Posting statements about moderns like that is like calling cladking on the batphone. >>



or you could just use this:

Russ

Well, if PCGS is trying to buy it back, that reduces the number of necessary whackos to only one.

If I were running PCGS, this coin would be bought back. It would be very cheap PR in both directions. First, it gets it off the market so that the possibility of another public round of "hey look at this overgraded PCGS POS!" is eliminated. Second, they then announce that - at great expense - they stood behind their product.

Russ,, NCNE

IrishMike

No they don't have to buy it back, they can simply send a grader over to look at it, claim its not a 70 and pull the cert number so it can't be included in a registry set. What would it be worth then?

baccaruda

By my estimates Marty, that 1963 DCAM Franklin you found is currently worth about $250,000. Nice score.

Now if you can just get the right piece of plastic wrapped around it...

baccaruda

What would it be worth then?

About $15

Cameo CC

After reading all of the posts on this thread, I sense some people do not think this coin is worth this price. I disagree. Perhaps those would have spent more time in the more traditional coins can not understand how this coin could realize this price based upon their experience.

The real question is have the modern coins out performed the more traditional coins?

Todd

DAM

Todd,

What is your buy price for a 1963 PR69DCAM Lincoln?

baccaruda

It doesn't really have anything to do with "modern vs. classic (or traditional)" to me. If it were a Morgan dollar worth $50 in ms65 condition and auctioning for $150 million in ms66 (or so the plastic says) it would be equally ridiculous.

The best litmus test for something like this is to ask "what are the odds they'll crack it out?". In this case the answer is 0%, making this auction 100% absurd.

Cameo CC

Dan,

Good point - What the market will bear?

Todd

dbldie55

So if a spotted proof is worth over 50k, what is a flawless proof worth? From what I have been told, between $200 and $600. Why is a spotted proof worth so much more? Because of the holder.

Why do you need to specialize in the modern coin market to understand this coin. I love people who "have" to defend a price paid for an insert to justify their place in the market.

DAM

To be honest, I haven't seen the coin in person. If the coin is (or isn't) everything those that have seen it, I've got a few PR69DCAM coins that need to be upgraded to PR71DCAM, and I meant to type PR71.

Even if that coin changed while in the holder, it can no longer be classified as "perfect".

Whether I agree or disagree with prices modern coins are bringing, I think this coin is giving modern coins a bad name.

Russ

<< <i>I sense some people do not think this coin is worth this price. I disagree. >>



Todd,

You're kidding right? That's just designed to stimulate debate, isn't it?

Russ, NCNE

LAWMAN

That thing is so spotty an wierd looking on their website in close-up that I would hesitate to even submit it for grading. Somebody is either totally nuts or PCGS will buy it back at any price, or, maybe their insuance carrier will.

itsnotjustme

<< <i>Actually, they sucked long before this single example came about.... >>

Yeah, they even sucked in 1793, 1804, 1837, 1916, 1932 etc

SeattleSlammer

Yeah, they even sucked in 1793, 1804, 1837, 1916, 1932 etc

Hey Brian, the BIG distinction in this case is that there are over 3,000,000 Lincoln cents in this proof year....

Make sense to you now?

Russ

<< <i>Hey Brian, the BIG distinction in this case is that there are over 3,000,000 Lincoln cents in this proof year... >>



Good thing there aren't any Morgan dollars with a mintage over 3 million that sell for ludicrous money because they have a high grade on the holder and some pretty colors.

Russ, NCNE

SeattleSlammer

Sheesh Russ, so sensitive.

Let's see, rainbow toned Morgan dollars or really high grade proof pocket change.... Boy that really is a toss up. I'm gonna have to think about that one some more and get back to you.

DAM

<< <i>Good thing there aren't any Morgan dollars with a mintage over 3 million that sell for ludicrous money because they have a high grade on the holder and some pretty colors. >>

mgoodm3

<< <i>Good thing there aren't any Morgan dollars with a mintage over 3 million that sell for ludicrous money because they have a high grade on the holder and some pretty colors.

Russ, NCNE >>




Whew, I'm relieved about that.

66impalaSS

What happened? The beginning of this thread says its selling for $51,000.00 When clicking on the link the page shows me its selling for $36,000.00???

Is my browser not reading it right?

Russ

<< <i>Sheesh Russ, so sensitive. >>



Sensitive? Don't flatter yourself. I think the amount of money this Lincoln is bringing is ridiculous. But I think it is equally ridiculous to condemn an entire class of coins, ("moderns suck"), and collectors simply because it isn't something you like.

Russ, NCNE

Russ

<< <i>The beginning of this thread says its selling for $51,000.00 When clicking on the link the page shows me its selling for $36,000.00?? >>



I'll be damned! It just dropped to $35,000.00 - $40,250.00 with the juice.

Russ, NCNE

Russ

A bidder has withdrawn. There were nine, now there are eight. I guess PCGS decided they didn't want it back.

Russ, NCNE

IrishMike

....more likely the bidder who withdrew is at FUN and finally saw the coin in person.

CalGold

<< <i>The real question is have the modern coins out performed the more traditional coins? >>



No, the real question is whether there has emerged among collectors of modern coins a paradigm that is significantly different than the market forces affecting older coins, such that a top pop common date coin having a mintage of 3,000,000 (with virtually no attrition since it is a proof) can sell for the same money as a condition sensus 1794 half dollar.

CG

Edited to add: a huge spike in the price of coins one grade lower than unique top pop coins, when there are many examples in the lower grade, would be more indicative of price performance of the series as a whole.

SeattleSlammer

Russ, you are free to view my condemnation of moderns as ridiculous.

However, that does not change my opinion. And while I did "condemn an entire class of coins" as you wrote, I did NOT condemn "collectors" of these coins. Certainly we can all collect what we like best. Indeed, if someone tells me that "toned Morgans suck!" I will not feel as if that person has just condemned all toned Morgan collectors.

So you see, you really are sensitive about this.

Still, pocket change really does suck.

relayer

I wonder if it's a good investment now?

You could buy it at the new lower price and claim it's worth $51,000 and sell it back to PCGS.