Is it MS-62 or AU-58?

BillJones

Last week I said that I had owned two 1805 dimes that were both the 4 berry variety. One was an AU-58 and the other an MS-62. Here are the two coins. See if you can tell the difference.

Coin A:



Coin B:

Baley

I would guess coin A is the MS coin, and B is the AU coin, mainly because of the slightly lighter color of the teats. and some of the other high points.

seriously, though, both coins are very nice, and either would pass for MS any day.

Dog97

I can't really tell wear from the pictures but coin B looks to have a different color on the high points so I'd say that is where the original skin has been rubbed, thus the lighter color cause it toned differently.

Baley

wait wait wait! is this the same coin in 2 different holders??

Baley

yep, the more I look at them, the more I think it's the same coin, slightly different lighting.

How could two different coins be so close in appearance?

coinkat

I am having a hard time... I think the top has alittle better eye appeal which means its 58 and the bottom coin is 62. Last time I did this with the two 1850 $20's and I was wrong...

Stuart

Top AU-58
Bottom MS-62

MrEureka

wait wait wait! is this the same coin in 2 different holders??

You don't trust Bill?

Baley

I trust Bill implicitly! I think he's trying (successfully) to make a point that for early coins in particular (and for all coins, to a certain degree) there's not much difference between a really nice AU58 and an OK MS62 (or higher) coin.

rainbowroosie

Does not look like the same coin?? Top 62, Bottom 58

clw54

The top one is AU58.

(Seriously, I dunno. It just looks that way to me.)

BillJones

Keep going. You are doing fine.

BTW I don't think that either coin is Mint State ....

airplanenut

What are the prices? I'd gladly go for the AU... since it's cheaper, and I can't tell the difference

clw54

I was looking at the hair detail, but that could be strike. I have hard time telling strike weakness from wear.

CoinAddict

I am goin to go with Baley on this one. The more I look at where the toning is on the two the more they look the same. It has to be the same coin taken with two different light settings.

stujoe

They are both AU's

BillJones

No need to wink about it Stujoe. They ARE both AUs.

DHeath

Bill,

I don't think the grade would have much to do with my enjoyment of either coin, but I'd imagine the first coin is graded AU. I see what looks like friction in the obverse field, and the shield is a little weaker. Coin two also has what appears to me from the pic to be pretty good luster in the protected areas. JMO

stujoe

I was guessing on the top pic but the bottom one looked like wear (although never a for sure with a picture, of course).

BillJones

There are two different coins here. The top one has a scrap on the slab on the reverse.

They are fraternal twins, not identical twins.

mr1931S

they both appear to have rub..."A" is a better strike and has nicer tone...

KollectorKing

A=AU58
B=MS62

I like A better.

BillJones

OK, the responses are slowin' down so it's time to come clean

Coin #1 is was a PCGS MS-62. It's now an NGC MS-62

Coin #2 is a PCGS AU-58.

The difference in price can be almost double. It's the main reason why "real" AU-58s are becoming an endangered species.

AND why more recent "AU-58s" are getting a bad name among some collectors.

DHeath

Thanks Bill. Which coin do you prefer?

roadrunner

The 2nd coin has much more obvious rubbing (white flat spots) on the clouds, eyebrow/forehead, drapery at bust line, etc. I think they are different enough. But as you have hinted at, you have to get to a fairly high slab # these days to get a real UNC coin.

roadrunner

roadrunner

The 2nd coin has much more obvious rubbing (white flat spots) on the clouds, eyebrow/forehead, drapery at bust line, etc. I think they are different enough. But as you have hinted at, you have to get to a fairly high slab # these days to get a real UNC coin.

roadrunner

mr1931S

PCGS and NGC say coin "B" is MS62...very interesting

Given the choice, i'd definitely take "A" over "B" and keep the difference in price in my pocket...

mgoodm3

B is 58.

mr1931S

provided, of course, that i could buy A for AU money...

jom

Don't have the slightest. Actually, they look like the same coin to me.

jom

wallstreetman

Why did the coin get cracked out?

It was obviously overgraded, you did a service to PCGS!

BillJones

The first coin got cracked because the new owner thought he might get an MS-63 from NGC.

As for doing PCGS a service, when it comes to early coins in MS-62 holders, there would have to be a lot a cracking going on to rid the world of all the MS-62 coins that are really choice AU. Heck, that's true for much later coins as well. Both services have been puting attractive AU coins in MS-62 holders for years.

Just last Saturday I saw an 1832 quarter eagle in a PCGS MS-62 holder that was not Mint State. I've got an 1836 quarter eagle in an MS-62 holder that is actually an AU-58. I saw an 1834 in a 58 holder that had more wear that my coin so I guess you can say they are consistent...

66Tbird

Thanks Bill,
I held off on posting for a while to see how things played out. I aslo thought neither was a MS, but if one had to of been then it would be A. For some reason I like B better for eye appeal. Don't know why, maybe because I feel the nice early stuff needs to show a little age.
Good educational post.

Shamika

The coin is technically AU, but is marketably MS.

I believe PCGS freely admits to market grading on all early American coinage.

BillJones

I like coin B better too. I bought it over 30 years ago when I landed my first job out of college and started to make some "real money." I "made the coin" last spring. Back then the dealer called it EF and it was priced a well under $1,000. That price seemed high for an EF at the time, but there are EFs and there are EFs.

Paying a little extra for a better coin within the grade often pays dividends in the long run. That's why the "PQ" coincept has merrit despite what people say.

That coin got me hooked on early U.S. coinage. From that on that was where I spent most of my "big money" when I added to my collection.

LAWMAN

I can't tell what is strike and what is wear. Amazing demonstration.

jonesy

A - MS62
B - AU58