Why don't we buy AU58 instead of MS62?

Wondo

Is it vanity, is it pride? A lot of slabbed sliders look a heck of a lot better than their MS62 counterparts often priced at multiples. Just think of all the extra coins that dough could buy!

Placid

Who is we?

Tassa

If given the choice, I'd rather buy an AU58 coin with great eye appeal than an unattractive MS62. It just depends on the coin.

clw54

I do buy AU58.

merz2

I too would prefer an AU58 eye appealing coin than an avg MS62.The eye appeal is the key factor.IMHO

jom

This works for all grades to a certain extend. Grade is NOT NECESSARILY the same as quality. Some MS62 are nicer than AU58, others aren't. It DEPENDS on the coin.

Would I rather buy an AU58 if I liked it better? Of course. In fact, recently I "down-graded" to an AU58 13-P Eagle because I not only liked it better than my MS63 I was also able to sell my MS63 and save myself $350. Sounds like a deal to me...

jom

darktone

<< <i>Is it vanity, is it pride? A lot of slabbed sliders look a heck of a lot better than their MS62 counterparts often priced at multiples. Just think of all the extra coins that dough could buy! >>

Heck- I see some coins that are in the XF range that have more eye appeal to me than some coins graded MS65 or higher but the fact is most AU58's have noticable wear or have been cleaned and are net graded to AU58. mike (go Packers!)

tradedollarnut

I would rather have a true AU58 than a true MS62 most any day. However, they're difficult to find as most are residing in 'AU'62,63 or 64 holders these days........

IMO, the services should designate the coins as such.

keets

Why don't we buy AU58 instead of MS62?

hey Wondo

the answer is fairly simple and self-explanatory------because the overwhelming majority of coins graded MS62 are nicer than the majority of coins graded AU58. the instances of collectors finding AU58 Gems and MS62 Dogsaren't routine. that's why members post about searching for them or finding them. to read between the lines of your post, i might think that all AU58's are mistakes by the graders and all MS62's are gifts. mistakes happen and opinions vary, those are the exceptions to the rule that collectors are reporting they've found.

most AU58's are AU58's and most MS62's are MS62's!!

al h.

jom

<< <i>of collectors finding AU58 Gems and MS62 Dogsaren't routine. >>



Agree with the former and disagree with the latter. I can routinely find "dog" MS62's at pretty much any show...right along with the "dog" AU58's.

Finding "true" AU58's in AU58 holders is very tough. Most have been found and "upgraded" by now. A rubbed coin is a market acceptable MS coin now....

jom

jdimmick

I like properly graded eye-appealing Au-58's, problem is they really are not that cheap in several series. When you find one that is correctly graded and has eye-appeal, the price is usually getting closer to the 63 money.

onlyroosies

I'll take a nice original AU58 over an MS62 all day long.

Wondo

Keets,

i agree with jom. Fugly MS62's are easy to find. It just seems that the general collecting public (me included) adhere to insert/CDN/dealer/our opinions that say if a technical grade is x than it is more desireable than technical grade y. The variance in eye appeal is huge and I'm just getting around to having that sink into my thick skull; ok. I'm not so bright.

Nowhere do the price guides say "all things being equal" in their publications.

I haven't even gotten into the resale dilema.

Anyway, I'm just thinking out loud about readjusting my collecting philosophy.





edited for spelling

Barry

Maybe we don't, but I do. IMO, AU58 is a much better deal for the money, similar to buying on the lower side of any coin where there's a big price break between grades.

BillJones

A real PQ AU-58 will cost you only a little less than a PQ MS-62. What's the difference? In most cases the MS-62 will have the slightest bit of LESS rub on it. The "real" MS-62 will something to be desired because it will lack something in eye appeal that kept it from becoming an MS-63.

To those who really care about the coins that are VERY hard to find, LOCATING the coin is more important than worrying about the grade. Let's face it in these grade levels its the dedicated collector that really makes the market. The dedicated collector might be on the registry or registries, but he does not stress over his standing very much. If he did and he had the bucks he'd be looking for the highest POP MS-64 and higher coins.

I once had two 1905 dimes with the four berry reverse. One was a PCGS MS-62, the other was an AU-58. Neither was a strict Mint State coin, but both were fully original and very attractive. To steal a term from the late George Wallace, "There was hardly a dime's worth of difference in them," except that the MS-62 could bring more money.

I "made" the AU-58 and it's still in my collection. I bought the MS-62 and sold it last fall as part of my inventory. If I can find photos I'll post them for what it's worth.

Coins like these two do not show up everyday. The true collector is more happy to find them to buy than he concerned about the number on the holder. In fact the lower number is better because you often pay a little less money, but there is not as much of a price difference in an "honest" transaction as you might think ...


P.S. Finding nice AU-58 is getting harder because a lot of them are getting cracked and regraded as MS-61s and 62s in day's world of relaxed grading standards.

Skipper53

A lot of the AU coins i bought when I first started collecting (3 yrs. ago)
were advertised as Uncirculated. The reason they looked so good was,
THEY WERE CLEANED !

braddick

The days of an AU58 being a GEM MS65 with rub are gone. I've seen some baggy AU58 in Service holders.
If I had a magic wand I'd make the Services grade ANY lightly circulated coin AU50 or AU53 or AU55 but I'd reserve the AU58 grade for those near GEMS that have slight rub or handling. If they're not choice in everyway, AU55 would be the next best route that coin would go.

As it is, I'd take the MS62 everytime. Classic coins that make the jump from AU to BU are much scarcer than thought of. I'll take marks over circulation anyday- especially when there is no guarantee that AU won't be marked up anyway.

keets

Finding "true" AU58's in AU58 holders is very tough. Most have been found and "upgraded" by now.

hey jom

am i reading that right when i say to myself that the "upgraded" AU58's have been overgraded?? that would mean that my simple statement---most AU58's are AU58's and most MS62's are MS62's!!---isn't true. in actuality, most AU58's are AU58's and apparently most MS62's are AU58's, also!! that being so, your experience of having difficulty finding nice MS62's and your ease in finding nice AU58's is understandable.

all the more reason why i buy in a higher grade!! please, no discussions as to why MS63's could be MS64's if the MS65's were properly holdered as MS62's, i mean AU58's. wait a minute, that would mean they were MS62's.

Revised grading scale, beginning with VF-35 through MS-70:

XF-55.
AU-40.
VF-45.
AU-35.
AU-62.
MS-60.
MS-61.
MS-58---please note that this encompasses the MS-65 grade.
MS-64.
MS-63.
MS-66.
grades of MS-67 and MS-68 have been eliminated.
MS-69.
MS-70.

al h.

keets

i think it's strange that most everybody talks of the MS62 grade in terms of it being a bump up from AU58. while that may be true, i assume there are as many, if not more, MS62's which were assigned that grade due to impaired luster or weakness of strike. i own several MS62's with no trace of rub and no easily seen marks, most likely held "down" due to what i mentioned above.

al h.

fountainheadgold

I've been buying au58 gold for months now. i am being careful to only buy great ones, most look ms63. I think they are under priced. I have plenty of gems but I think NICE au58's will have a hugh increase

tradedollarnut

all the more reason why i buy in a higher grade

The last first generation holder AU58 Walking Liberty half I cracked was regraded MS65.... so much for that philosophy.


Any MS62 with a minimum of marks is probably circulated to some extent. For that matter, so are many MS64's and 65's. After how many pockets and change drawers does a coin lose its luster? Where do you draw the line? I say ignore the line - net grade the rub.

It's all about eye appeal. A bit of rub is simply part of the equation. A fully lustrous gem with high point rub is worth much more than AU58 money. AU58 is now for unc coins with too many contact marks in the fields and/or too much wear to be ignored. The best way to remove the confusion would have been to throw tradition out the window and start grading AU60-65. Is that really so bad?

Gilbert

I just want to add that I read a recent article (most of which was republished from the late 80's I believe) that is about the value of coins in the AU58 range, and finally someone of substance finally publicly acknowledges that when sending a coin in for professional grading, you are paying for them to "price" the coin, not grade it.

That said, maybe we should preface all our comments regarding grades with whether we are talking about actual grades or grades commensurate with perceived value at the time of slabbing.

I would prefer a technical 58 over a technical 62 almost every single time.

edited to add: Why is today's market grading so acceptable among so many? Why do you want a grade assigned that may very well be wrong, or rather inappropriate 5 years from now? If the coin's state of preservation is unchanged, why should the grade assigned change just because the coin increases/decreases in value???

keets

I would prefer a technical 58 over a technical 62 almost every single time.

.........and yet another confusing statement. why would you prefer to have a "technically" inferior coin??

al h.

mgoodm3

I like higher numbers.

nwcs

I tend to not buy AU-58 coins because I like the idea of uncirculated. But in the coins I collect now, AU-58 is way too low. I look for 65 and higher and 63/64 if the look is nice. AU is for error coins now, for me.

jom

This discussion got way too "technical" for me. I'm now confused as hell.

TDN probably hit on it best. "rub" is part of the evaluation of a coins eye appeal. Along with the luster, color, strike etc etc.

As to the price, some series have AU58's going for near MS63 money, some go for MS60 money. Whatever...if you like the coin then pay a price that you are happy with....

jom

Gilbert

Keets,

If you are seriously asking, I'll try to answer.

A AU58 SHOULD have less problems than a MS62, the 58 primarily being a minute break in luster, whereas the 62 could have bagmarks, weak strike, hairlines and so on.

Considering that the 58 most significant problem is a minute break in luster and the 62 is probably significant bagmarks or loss of detail, I wouldn't see the 58 as inferior.

Essentially the 58 is the best one can have in circulated condition whereas the 62 is pretty near the worst one can have in uncirculated condition, I guess it would depend on one's collecting goals as to whether on or the other is inferior.

To my way of thinking, the goal of collecting MS only aside, when I line up the circ grades against the uncirc grades I feel that a 62 falls somewhere in the "fine to very fine" range RELATIVELY speaking. Of course, this is only my philosphy when considering whether I prefer a "technical 58" over a "technical 62".

keets

hey Gilbert

i'm just puzzled as to why so many feel, rightly or wrongly, that an AU58 is a gem coin with a small problem and an MS62 is plagued with several deficiencies. i assume it's our individual perceptions. my take on AU58 is simple, visible rub and/or other signs of circulation. my take on MS62 is equally simple, weakness of strike or weak luster. those observations are based on what i've seen.

funny thing, this debate has gone on for the entire time i've been a member.

al h.

jeffnpcb

Maybe those 62s' are 58s'!!

09sVDB

i do buy AU58's and not 62's.

darktone

I agree with Baseball. The AU58's that are being talked about don't really exist as AU58's any more- now if this were a discussion a dozen years ago I would take a different stance. I also think the au55's from the late 80's to early 90's are today's au58's. Personally I can't believe some of the gold I send in gets the grade of AU58! This is stuff that I used to get AU50-55 on! mike