Lot's of collections coming up for sale!(any thoughts)
jdimmick
Posts: 9,780 ✭✭✭✭✭
I have been hearing and reading about a lot of collections going up for sale just recently. Many will be at the upcoming FUN show, but also several are going on E-bay, and even posted on the BST by several of the board members themselves.
I am curious to know what others feel are the reasons why so many people have deciding to part with there collections all of a sudden. and in some cases, these collections were thier main focus or passion(series)
any comments!
I am curious to know what others feel are the reasons why so many people have deciding to part with there collections all of a sudden. and in some cases, these collections were thier main focus or passion(series)
any comments!
0
Comments
Buy low -- sell high!
rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
Registry 1909-1958 Proof Lincolns
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
michael
i recently did some wholesale clearing to take advantage of current prices and had some interesting results. overall i came out ahead but 2003 was an interesting year for prices and some of the modern pops. one example that highlights that are early 1970's Proof Jefferson Nickels. in February i submitted some coins and was able to holder two 1973's at PCGS in PR69DCAM, the first coins in quite some time to make that grade. i sold one to a forum member for $175 which at the time was a very fair price. within two months the number of PR69DCAM's in several of the 1971-1975 dates changed dramatically, including the 1973. in hindsight, i should have sold both coins and waited 6 months to buy one at around $50!!! maybe not the same thing that is bringing these collections to the block now, but you should see my point. with the prices rising almost daily in this current market, i just think many collectors don't want to risk missing out.
i wonder how much of a shift we'll see in the pop's for some coins?? with all this seemingly "choice material" appearing suddenly, there are bound to be crackouts, reholders, crossovers and grade-guarantee's going on. by the time August and the ANA rolls around things could be very different. these are exciting times, aren't they??
al h.
run up. While those areas take breathers, others will pick up the flag and run with it.
roadrunner
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ for whatever reason!!
al h.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
Three years of Flyers will take up a lot less space than fifty years of IHCs.
Bottom line, for me it is a slight shift in emphasis, and a consolidation - I just have too many coins.
Registry 1909-1958 Proof Lincolns
I'd like to know my coins are worth at least 80 % of what I paid for them, and I'd sell the pieces that weren'y my favorites if I could get most of my money out of them, but my favorites are sitting right where they are unless someone offers me "stupid" money for them.
Les
<< <i>the trick to be offered "Stupid" money for your favorites, >>
I think "stupid money" is a term more often used by those who don't receive it.
Good point, and I have shown a number of people all of whats left of my collection in person and some of my coins have been pictured on this site.
My former 1877 CC quarter which stirred up so much controversy in several different threads brought a worlds record price fore the date in any grade.
My Icon coin was posted both obverse and reverse earlier this year and thanks to Russ was put in the Icon section of the website so I could make it my Icon coin.
My 1861 seated quarter may not be everybodys cup of tea because it has original non picasso like toning, but the luster is as full as you'll see on a 65 and the surface quality in my opionion was undegraded a point because it isn't blast white.
All of these have been pictured on this site at various times this year, unfortunatly, I don't have a p.c. or a digital camera so I can't show the others over the net. My point was emotion is a big part of selling your favorite pieces if your attached to them and don't think they could be easily replaced.
Les
Walmart (middle class shopping) announced poor Christmas sales. Other “middle class” retailers announced pretty much the same dismal results. However, Nordstrom, Neiman Marcus, and others (upper ticket shopping) have been announcing STRONG Christmas sales. Why the divergence?
Because the ones who do the firing are STILL working and accordingly still shopping (they have fired everyone but themselves). The management class just went shopping with the huge end of the year bonus they paid themselves with the excess money saved by their firing of so many good middle class workers (even the shareholders are getting diddly).
Naturally, the unemployed prize eating and paying for Cobra health insurance even more than they prize their VF graded 1916-D Mercury Dimes. When the rubber meets the road, FOOD and medicine will trump coins every time. And so.....the vf 1916-D must go!
THIS dynamic could be what is causing so many good collections (and other assets) to be coming to market: whether on Ebay or any other venue. When we have money we rarely sell the things that we love and would otherwise “hold.” I wonder how MUCH money from sold coins is going towards paying bills rather than buying more coins? I wonder how many “advances” the auction houses are doling out to consignors? matteproof
Even as the economy improves these people will not get rehired, unless they take drastic pay cuts.
Why hire a 55 ish V.P. for $125,000 when the universities are pumping out young tigers that will take those jobs
for $35,000. Of the tens of thousands of these jobless boomers some had to have great coin collections and are ready to sell.
Check this out, ever wanted to own a Gobrecht dollar, or a 1794 Bust half, or a MS 66 09 S vdb, this seller put these on Ebay this morning plus 2 AU 93 S morgans and 2 1907 HR $20 GOLDS and much more.
Here is a link to paste:
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=anitacoin&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=50
Even as the economy improves these people will not get rehired, unless they take drastic pay cuts.
Why hire a 55 ish V.P. for $125,000 when the universities are pumping out young tigers that will take those jobs for $35,000.
Goldsaint you are right on the money. I recently read an article that said it was nearly impossible for a formerly employed man over 40 to find equivalent employment (or any employment!). Many of my neighbors - quite a few over 40 - are currently unemployed. Many of them are unemployed for LONG periods of time now (over one year). Those ones are not even counted in the "unemployment figures" yet they remain unemployed. All of them are "melting" financially.
America's "aristocracy," the corporate elitists, remain employed, overpaid, stock option laden, and bonus granted. These same ones carry a big FIRING stick that they pink slip to everyone excluding themselves and their cronies. Yet, it is THEIR failures (and many scandals) that have given rise to the reshuffling of corporations everywhere; where layoffs are supposed to be "good" for America. The corporate brainwash of a so-called "jobless recovery" is both cruel and self-serving. There are many pawns in this fantastic redistribution of wealth now long underway in our culture.
The most recent insult is the granting of end of year bonuses to this management ilk coming at the expense of so many excellent but now fired middle class workers. It's no small wonder that great collections are coming to the market (and homes, cars, guitars and grandpa's old saxophone too). You are right - Ebay is now loaded with some VERY prize coins. matteproof
I doubt there is a single entrpreneur who started their business with the goal of providing jobs and handing out welfare checks to underpriveleged. They started their business to prosper and create wealth for themselves...a most noble endeaver. Nobody owes you a job or is responsible for your welfare. An individuals right to property is what made this country as wealthy as it is today and we have all benefited from the creators of wealth. If you don't like it, start your own wealth creation venture and stop blaming those that gave you a job in the first place...you pitiful fools.
When we are planning for posterity, we ought to remember that virtue is not hereditary.
Thomas Paine
You said; "Nobody owes you a job..."" This is true and should be equally applied at every level of the corporate structure. Unfortunately, the only jobs that ARE protected are those of the corporate elite. The jobs of the working class folks are vulnerable and subject to what you have described. The jobs of the corporate elite are for the most part NOT subject to what you describe.
You said; "...or is responsible for your welfare." I disagree. I feel Society IS responsible for it's neighbor's welfare. A decent and moral society has an obligation to lift his neighbor up when he is down.
You said; "An individuals right to property is what made this country as wealthy as it is today... I agree strongly with you that property rights are essential. I disagree that the right to property is what made this country wealthy. Property rights are what make INDIVIDUALS wealthy - and that wealth is ONLY good if it's righteously obtained. Otherwise it is tyranny.
You said; "...and we have all benefitted from the creators of wealth." Maybe you have. Many have not. I have benefitted from my OWN efforts and GOD's grace (and not in that order). The "creators of wealth" have benefitted from those who have labored hard while many (though not all) of those so-called "creators of wealth" play golf at the country club and vote themselves absurd bonuses, golden parachutes and other corporate elite perks for doing little or nothing.
You said; "If you don't like it, start your own wealth creation venture and stop blaming those that gave you a job in the first place..." I always have been in business for myself which created many jobs for others. When business was bad I cut MY compensation to zero FIRST before I would ever dream of laying people off. Dynamics like that NEVER take place among the "corporate elite." Quite the opposite.
You said; "...you pitiful fools." Pity is in the eyes of the beholder. I choose to pity the scores of unemployed people in this country whose only misfortune was to be working under the power and authority of an "everything for me and nothing for you" mentality that reeks among the corporate culture today. Thank you again for your thoughts Catch22. I appreciate your input. matteproof
You said; ". I highly doubt any of these top ranked sets are being sold off because of unemployment or catastrophic financial problems." Your doubts might surprise you. You suppose that top ranked sets are owned by billionaies only. This may be true in some instances but certainly not all. Many superior coins are held by very average income collectors. "Aged inventory" can be in the hands of modest collectors just as valuable homes bought for a song fifty years ago (now worth very much) can be owned by men of modest means. A man who purchased a waterfront beach house for very little money in South Carolina fifty years ago is today a millionaire - even though his income may be at or near the poverty level.
You said; "In fact it is quite natural to sell and move on to other ares of interest." True. However, my sense is that many collections are being sold to raise cash, not necessarily to buy coins from other series but for living or other expenses. This is obviously not always the case, but far more often than many would care to admit. Thank you for your thoughs manocoins. matteproof
I Have to Wonder a few years down the road as to who will buy these items or good or services
maybe with the out scorching of workers and lay offs they'll sell them over seas
but with the shipping prices and low costs over seas I doubt it
I think this country is going down a slippery slope cutting out the middle class
you can really see why the work ethic in this country is the way it is
anyway it goes we'll see a few years down the road at most
Registry 1909-1958 Proof Lincolns
Selling collections coincide with opportune moments when the most visibility and highest number of bidders can come together, such as the Big national shows like FUN.
Collectors on average are older white males who after years or decades of collecting are either selling to collect another series, or selling to pursue other ventures for themselves and their families.
Most of my Barber halves, while not terrible expensive were obtained from two long time collectors who passed away. Had death not come to them, they would have kept their coins.
After some years collecting I have realized conclusively that for me and probably most others, that the joy of collecting is in the hunt and set building, not in the storing of coins in bank safety deposit boxes (subliminal hint Jim...sell, sell, sell). Once a set is done, if the dollar value is great, then selling to recycle money back for the hunt makes perfect sense.
Tyler
ARCO, here is what my opinion is of how the dealers decide if the market is getting slower, If a dealer that has been able to sell anything of quality the last two years can’t sell his items to other dealers, he starts getting pretty nervous. This market is not the NYSE there is not always going to be a buyer the instant you want to sell. Dealers make money-moving items through their inventory, when that stops they have to blow stuff out the door. I think the question here is that starting to happen?
<< <i>I think the question here is that starting to happen? >>
Even if it were starting to happen, it should be mostly invisable at the current time.
There are huge numbers of returning collectors who would absorb any excess sup-
ply should it develop.
Supply is best thought of as total supply rather than merely "apparent" supply which
is what one sees on the market. Apparent supply has a great variability in good times
and bad, but is not a major factor in determining prices except to the degree to which
it can influence demand.
"There are huge numbers of returning collectors"
Cladking, What I have read on the forum the last few months is that there are indeed NEW collectors coiming into the market but they are buying MODERN'S and American Eagles. Who are these " returning collectors" ?
I admit I have not been to any big time shows yet but the two regionals I went to were pretty dull on both sides of the isle. I know from other threads that many current collectors have felt a sense of urgency this year and have filled lots of hole thinking this market would just keep going up, but when your finished with your main collecting goal your buying must slow down. It seems from other postings here that many collectors consider the hunt the most important thing and once that is done they often become sellers, and with the sales tools on the NET they also become semi- dealers? One thing that is interesting, after my posting this morning on ANITACOIN I went and looked at what " ANITA" was buying. Just as others had said MR. ANITA was buying lots of other dealers items, in fact there were 2 pages of bids just in 30 days. At that point I went and looked at some of the dealers I buy from on a regular basis. Guess what? Many of these dealers are just trading sales on EBAY. They buy em, clean em, slab em, resubmit em, and many times another dealer buys them. How much of this market is just going around in a circle before it finally is put in a collection ????
baby boomers (or nearly) who collected as children in the "circulation finds" era. They
became reinterested in coins when the states coins were introduced. For the main part
they show relatively little interest in moderns and opt for the coins they collected as child-
ren or young adults. Some of these collectors are also branching into other areas which
can include moderns. Nearly half the people who were collecting back in the old days who
are still around are collecting again, and they have significant financial resources.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i><<Nearly half the people who were collecting back in the old days who are still around are collecting again, and they have significant financial resources.>>
Cladking, just how do arrive at such an estimate and what is yout sense of what this figure is in real numbers? That seems like a rather large figure consider how many people use to collect back in the old days.
Based on my attendance at Santa Clara and Long Beach for the last dozen or so years, the number of people attending these particular shows, don't seem to be dramatically more, at least based on my casual perception. >>
Many of the returning collectors are not significantly more advanced than they were when
they got out of collecting. They are not buying a lot of books yet or going to shows but they
are buying coins.
These guesses are based on sampling and a little polling and are highly colored by my per-
sonal experiences and local factors. I would guess that there are more than 5,000,000 re-
turning collectors and this is much of the source of the demand which is pushing up the prices
of classic coins. There has also been some speculation based on the large numbers of "new"
collectors and a general exuberance in the hobby. So long as the new younger collectors stay
aboard and continue to learn it would seem that this exuberance is justified. Even if they don't
it may be several years until the increasing demand of the returnees, speculators, and newbies
isn't sufficient to absorb the supply.
Hey Guys, I am guessing here like the rest of you! The new Heritage sale next week should give us all an indication of how strong the 2004 coin market will be. This sale is now posted on Ebay and we should be able to look at prices after the sale. WOW 13,876 lots!
You said; "WOULD BET THAT TOP EXECUTIVES ALSO SEE CUTS... Quite the contrary. Top executives have been giving themselves additional pay and bonuses AFTER they have fired thousand of others. The working class have paid for those bonuses through their layoffs. The shareholders did NOT receive that dividend which should have been paid to them (if to anyone) not the elitists.
You said; "...MOST DO CARE ABOUT THEIR EMPLOYEES,.." Sounds nice. But it's not correct. The evidence is in the reality of the firings and aftermath. Fired employees are forgotten the moment they are marched out of the building by security.
You said; " ...WITHOUT THEM NO COMPANY" Companies exist by operation of law. They are not created to be shrines (and piggy banks) for the executive class. Corporations are created entities, with corporate charters and perpetual life. If anyone in the corporate structure holds the honor you suggest it is the SHAREHOLDERS not the executive class. Without the shareholders there would be no company. The corporate elitists are simply EMPLOYEES of the company - and by extension - employees of the shareholders.
You said; "WE HAVE MANY STRONG, GOOD COMPANIES!" I agree. Thanks be to GOD. We also have many elitists in management positions at good companies who are enriching themselves at the expense of shareholders and fired/laid off employees.
You said; "TOO MANY PEOPLE REMEMBER THE BAD APPLES, ENRON!.. On the contrary. Too many people have already forgotten about ENRON. Additionally, the ENRON scandal has little to do with the pervasive corporate culture of firing thousands and benefiting the executive class at the expense of the many (they are different issues). Nearly every large corporation has engaged in massive layoffs of the working class - but not the elitist class. Why? Additionally, that same elitist bunch is stubbornly refusing to restart the hiring process. Why? If the so called "recovery" were true (as the elitists insist it is) then where is the hiring to back it up? It ain't!
You said; "...MANY COLLECTORS PURCHASE COINS TO TURN A PROFIT OR FOR AN INVESTMENT. IF PRICES ARE HIGH, YOU SELL." Generally speaking, that is NOT the mentality of a numismatist. While collectors do wish to make a profit when they sell, the fact that a profit may be available does not necessarily mean that they will sell. That is why so many great collections remain intact with the same owner for so many years. However, when the NEED to sell arises (for whatever reason) those coins may come to market in droves (the original question posed on this thread). Your suggestion implies that many numismatists are so-called "investors" in coins. This may not be so. I feel that many (most?) collectors buy coins because they love them. The so-called "coin investor" in the purest sense may not be as plentiful as you suggest. Most “investors” depend upon highly liquid markets (i.e. stock exchanges, options exchanges, etc). Coins rarely offer the extreme liquidity prized by most investors (“efficient market theory”). Furthermore, while coin prices are said to be high - I see that many prices are also low. I routinely see coins priced LOWER today than they were even two years ago. If prices were truly high, then you should have no problem routinely selling to a dealer the coins you bought six months or one year ago for a profit. Thank you again for your input Kuch. I appreciate your thoughts. matteproof