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Everyday in the coin business...
MrEureka
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Assume that you are a coin dealer. Let's say that you and another twenty dealers share a client who needs a specific coin. You all know that the client will pay up to $1000 for the coin and you're all actively looking to fill the order. Now, let's say someone walks up to your table with the coin and asks for an offer. Greysheet "bid" is only $600. What do you do?
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
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If the buyer left a depost,i'd pay up to $900,if i might own the coin(if i like it),$625.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
2. Then I'd tell him/her to lower it, and use the difference for something else I might have or others on their want list,
3. Then I'd try to buy it for $600, and
4. Finally, I'd offer it to my client for $720-$750.
I'm hoping the client will realize I save him some bucks and will appreciate it that he will refer future biz to me, and referrals. Bottom line, repeat biz is best biz there is.
When we are planning for posterity, we ought to remember that virtue is not hereditary.
Thomas Paine
<< <i>Now, let's say someone walks up to your table with the coin and asks for an offer >>
My statement would probably go something like this, after being upset that I had to put my hamburger down for a minute. And with my mouth full, I kind of grunt and groan a bit.... Well, these are pretty common, and I have a couple in inventory that haven't moved. Soooo, as I pull out my BS sheet (blue sheet
I then tell the customer waiting for such coin that it's PQ++++++++++ and had to pay strong money and am only making 10%.
Then sell it to the buyer for $950 and pocket the 10%.
Tell him his coin is overgraded and offer him $350, then flip it to your buyer as a PQ piece for $1200
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That is a good reason I don't divulge much of my want list to any dealer. I prefer to lose some great coins than to find out that I am at the end of the chain of dealer buying the same coin over and over again until I return from vacation!
I agree with oreville,i don't do want lists.
I'd rather make the customer feel comfortable with our business relationship, and insure future dealings, than make a 1-time killing.
What would you do Andy?
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K S
That would give you a very large potential upside and a pretty small downside. That way you paid the seller a fair price and you met your buyer's expectations.
I don't think your Buyer is necessarily stupid. There are a few $1,000 to $1,500 coins that I would be willing to pay bid plus 50% on right now. However, those coins just don't pop up very often and they always sell for way over bid. I think the Greysheet can be very helpful....but for many series the Greysheet doesn't have nearly the grasp of current price levels that dealers and collectors specializing in a particular series have.
I don't do want lists either...for the sames reasons already enumerated.
If the coin is average then paying bid might make sense, but if it is above average/PQ and a very In Demand series (like PQ Morgans), then there is no telling what you can do. You may pay the guy above bid and sell it to the other guy for the $1000 since that is what he said he will pay.
Plus it all depends on how business is going at the time too. Some times dealers make up for past losses by getting a larger than normal profit on a coin now. Is there anything wrong with that? Some say yes, others say no.
A coin is actually worth what a collector will pay for it. I have paid bid+75% over for some really PQ PCGS Morgans that are just not seen very often, and I walked away feeling GREAT about it because I was so damn happy with the coins. Was the dealer wrong for selling them to me that high? I say NO, NO WAY. Because he might have gotten more from someone else, and I had seen some like it at a past show sell even higher.
So my point is that there are always so many variables in play in these situations it is really hard to just throw out a basic question like that and get honest, accurate answers to it.
<< <i>No offense Mr. Eureka but that is a very cooky scenario. 21 dealers sharing a client looking for a $1,000 coin. If that many dealers did share 1 client looking for a $1K coin that bids $600, it mush be a hard to come by or obscure issue.
In any event, the smart thing to do, if someone approached you as in your scenario, is to do what Laura says and ask how much they want for it. Heck if it's like I mentioned in the aforementioned paragraph, the seller may want more than a grand. However, as in all cases, you try to negotiate the best price you can. Assuming the likely scenario that you get it around bid, you do one of 2 things. You pocket the large margin and call it a good finder's fee (nothing wrong there). Or if it's a good customer, you give him a nice surprise by selling it below what he would be willing to pay. >>
I like this answer. It is honest and probably happens all the time. A lot of variables here as I mentioned earlier.
<< <i>Tell him his coin is overgraded and offer him $350, then flip it to your buyer as a PQ piece for $1200 >>
I hate to say it but this probably happens a lot.
We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
Seth
No, ask the client if he has any relatives who are also collectors.
Greg Hansen, Melbourne, FL Click here for any current EBAY auctions Multiple "Circle of Trust" transactions over 14 years on forum
<< <i>twenty dealers share a client who needs a specific coin....What do you do? >>
Dump the client.
Russ, NCNE
Nah....most numismatic professionals [hmmm - does that equate to coin ho?] know how to take a shot right. They could never admit to the shottee that he was almost raked over the coals, so they have to have an outlet source where they can dump the coin at a significantly lower price for a quick buck. So more than likely, the asking price would be $1,500 with a backup wholesale flip at $800.
Of course, when the 'client' figures it out, you're darn straight ya won't see another dime of business from him - but numismatic professionals don't much care these days. But what goes around, comes around..........times will change.
I really want to be a dealer when I grow up. I just need to find some pinkie rings, gold neck chains, and some crisco to slick my hair back.
<< <i>I would tell the client the coin is on "Consignment" and I really can't come down on price. How my doing so far? >>
But the client won't pay more than $750 for that coin so he passes. Go sell it to one of the other 20 dealers and they offer it to him again. After a couple of these, client realizes that it is the same coin making the rounds and decides to wait until one dealer finally gets stuck with it and has to blow it out. Problem is in the meantime all of these dealer to dealer sales get reported to CDN and since it seems to be a hot item plus signs appear on the sheet and the listed price rises. Client sees rising values for the coin and decides it must be worth more so he buys it for $1200 the fifth time it is offered to him.
i have a real novel approach that you might use, one that ties in with all the other dealer threads recently. tell him, better yet, show him where it's priced in the grey sheet and explain how that works if he doesn't understand. then ask him how much he needs to get out of the coin!!! if that nets you the oft repeated dealer 10-25% profit, buy the coin and resell it to the collector who's requested you to find it.
of course, there is also the repeated tactic which may work and may not-----give him a free ride on the "lowball express" and see what happens. use your dealer instincts.
...........but hey, you'd like to know what i'd do. make an honest offer.
al h.
Competition is fine, but you can compete yourself to death.
I'm gonna edit this:
to add:
If a guy is offering $1000 to 21 dealers for the same coin, it probably bids $1500.
21 dealers SHOULD know enough people to round up ANY coin for a real buyer who will pay a reasonable profit for the search.
courteously. I've also gotten a price break or two on coins I bought from him because of it.
A 'client' who is trolling for coins with 21 dealers is a marginal client at best, and I would not go out
of my way for this person. I would treat this transaction like any other. I'd look the coin over, ask myself how much I could get for it, how easy it would be for me to sell, and make an offer accordingly.
If 21 dealers know this guy is looking for such and such a coin, how do you know that someone else hasn't already found it for him & then you're stuck with said coin (unless it's something like an 84 CC Morgan in 6 that's easy to sell).
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."