16-D Mercuries....what do you think?

KollectorKing

JJ Teaparty has 2 16-D Mercury dimes for sale:

1. http://www.jjteaparty.com/APIC/49603.jpg NGC AU53, $5250

2. http://www.jjteaparty.com/APIC/49602.jpg NGC EF40, $3750

Any comments?

airplanenut

#1



#2

richbeat

Linkified #1



Linkified #2

richbeat

Thanks airplanenut.

BillJones

It's a shame, but virtually all circulated 1916-D Mercs that slabbed are overgraded. It's got nothing to do with Teaparty or any other dealer. That's just the way things are.

The "bids" have been lowered to reflect the fact that you get less coin for the grade these days.

Going by the pictures, which can be deceptive, I give the following "old timers" grades to these coins: #1 EF-45, #2 VF-30. A one grade overgrade is about standard these days, and it's been my experiernce that Teaparty buys 'em about as conservatively as possible. With some other dealers you will bet less for the grade.

KollectorKing

Thanks, airplanenut!

Bill Jones -

The reverse of both coins seem to be a full grade higher, why is that? Given the coins are overgraded, what do think of the asking prices?

wingedliberty

The 16D enjoys a separate tier of grading, NGC is consistent with the industry and with PCGS as far as how these two are graded. The second example is more harshly cleaned and therefore graded lower.
It is exceptionally rare for a 16D to come back in a body bag for cleaning.
Grading services want authentic key dates in their holders,and are therefore more lenient in allowing detractions to pass through. The asking prices are fair and both examples are graded properly, it therefore becomes a function of your budget.
#1 has a more original obverse, and I would select that one anyday, but a 16D is a 16D. A privelege to own in any grade. Good luck.

Enjoy the hobby!

XpipedreamR

I'm going to hold out for an MS FSB piece.


It will probably be a very long time before I have a 1916D.

jdimmick

I have to agree with Bill Jones on this one. The first coin looks like it would grade about Xf-45 to me, however does appear to be original. I see Vf-35 on the second, again based on the photo's, also this one has been lightly cleaned.

NGC and also PCGS have a tendency to grade many 16-d Merc dimes too liberal, especially in the past 5 years. I have even seen several 16-d dimes holdered by them that should not have been holdered due to obviuos cleaning IMO.

I used to own a PCGS-35 1916-d that was clearly IMO only a solid 20, maybe 25. But was super original and thats why I bought it. However, about 6 months ago, I had the chance to aquire a absolutely nice PCGS-55 with nice original luster and Full bands(not designated on holder at that grade though) that was holdered years ago(late 80's) and was right on target and actually looks better.

When I went to sell the VF-35, I placed it on E-bay at a strong VF price and it sold the next day and the buyer was delighted to get it. So at some point in past few years, the market(buying public) has adjusted to the more liberal grading of 16-d merc dimes by the major services , becuase they still bring the prices according to the stated grade on the holder, vs what the coin actually grades or looks like.

I dont have a pic of my 16-d yet, or I would send you one. I just picked up a new cam yesterday and havent even took it out of the box. As soon as I can get by the bank, Ill snap a pic for you, I have to get a pic of one of my recent Morgan purchases for somebody esle anyway.

jim


Xpiper, there is a nice 64FSB availble in the upcoming B@M sale, I am guessing it will fetch at least 20k or more!

robertpr

Without regard for the prices, I would agree with BillJones. The first thing that I noticed when looking at the coins was that they were overgraded. Then when I scrolled down and saw what Bill said, I was relieved to see that it wasn't just bad grading on my part! It seems all key date coins these days are overgraded!

So, when looking at the coins and ignoring the holder, do the prices seem reasonable to you? I haven't shopped around for any '16-D Mercs lately, but these coins (even more so than common date coins) have to be considered based on the merit of the coin, not the number on the holder. I personally wouldn't pay those prices for those coins, and it's not necessarily because they're overgraded, but because I don't like them.

RYK

I am not a Merc guy, as you know, but I am always drawn to the discussion of key date coins and grading.

I could not believe that the first coin was graded AU. In coronet gold, you would be lucky to have EF with that amount of wear/rub. To my eye, the amount of wear on both obverses is about the same, and the first reverse is considerably better on the AU than the EF. Visually, the AU is the more attractive coin to me. In fact, I find the second coin to be rather ugly. I would rather have an untoned, honestly worn XF, which I expect would sell for a premium over the EF shown.

I would like to get a 16-D someday. I have a near-complete circulated merc set that I inherited in a 50 year old Wayte Raymond album that is missing the 16-D and a few others. Interestingly, my grandmother who put the coins in the albums, put a 16-S in the 16-D slot. On closer inspection, the "D" was really an "S" (verified by an ANACS grader). I would like to complete this series that she did not and then give it to my son.

Robert

KollectorKing

jdimmick -

Look forward in seeing the pic of your 16-D.

Can someone tell me the current acquisition prices on "accurately" graded white or lightly toned AU50, AU55, and AU58 16-D?

Barry

I looked at those coins and thought to myself that it's Teaparty's typical overgrading. Then, I noticed they were slabbed. At least they're consistent

Merc

jdimmick, you are great at grading coins. I looked at the 2 coins first before looking at their assigned grades. I agree with you Ef45 and a VF35. The second as been cleaned sometime in its life as Brian (wingedliberty) mentioned. I didn't realize how often they were overgraded.

marcmoish

I'm totally in agreement - as BillJones pointed out and others - these two 16-D examples are overgraded and are indeed EF-45 & VF-30 at best. Actually to put it mildly I'm really horrified and feel like puking to see such grades on upper end grading service like NGC!

I don't recall seeing too many PCGS 16-D overgrades although I may be wrong. It seems in all my observations and coin travels I find mostly overgraded merc's in NGC plastic. Needless to say I would only be looking at NGC & PCGS (Maybe ANACS) to begin with, so it's quite sad to see this especially circulated grades fiasco - why most knowledable folks know a 30 from a 45 or EF from AU etc..no?


Marc

Veridicus

Wow! I didn't realize NGC overgraded these that bad. They look like a VF-30 and VF-20 to me. I guess it's "market grading" as they call it.


I really can't believe how bad these are graded.

WorkingMan

I just sold a decent PCGS AG-3 today at the MSNS show (during dealer setup), but I still have another nice PCGS G-4 left. If any of yall are going to the MSNS show this weekend, and don't plan on spending 5 grand for a 16-D, come see me at table 148 and we'll see what we can do.

Dan