NTC Certified Gold

numismantra

I've noticed a lot of bidding on ebay for NTC MS64-65 Gold with winning bids paying much less than a PCGS coin of that grade would
go for. What is the deal here? Is the objective to get them recertified by a more respected grading service and resell or what? any
input on this?

airplanenut

Yes... if it's in an NTC holder it's almost guaranteed:

1- not genuine
2- altered
3- cleaned/whizzed
4- other damage
5- way overgraded

Most likely a combination of many...

pontiacinf

jeremy dont make a blanket statement like that. While over graded could possibly be, I dont think any company purposely slabs counterfiet gold.

darktone

I am not sure but I think maybe Jeremy meant the coin would have at least one of these problems and if that is the case I totally agree with him. mike

XpipedreamR

<< <i>NTC Certified Gold >>

Conder101

<< <i>While over graded could possibly be, I dont think any company purposely slabs counterfiet gold. >>


Purposely no. Does so through error or incompetency, possibly.

BillJones

NTC = ACG

I agree with Condor that NTC would not KNOWINGLY certify a counterfeit gold coin, but having said that, they are not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

jdimmick

This is the perfect thread to tell you about what happend yesterday!!

Someone came into the local shop yesterday to show off his new $3.00 gold princess, he said he picked up a nice Au-58. As he pulled it out and I saw it was in an NTC slab, i was thinking oh no!!

The coin was graded AU-58 and looked like it had been cleaned with a brillo pad. Incredible hairlines covered the entire coin surface, and probably only graded xf-45 at best before the cleaning. What a piece of junk! Unfortunately, the guy paid 1600.00 for it?

Guess where? E-bay

BillJones

NTC is ACG with a green background.

Russ

<< <i>NTC is ACG with a green background. >>



In 1950 to 1970 proof coins, NTC is actually worse than ACG. PCI ain't any better. It seems to be a battle between the three to see just who can be the worst.

Russ, NCNE

stujoe

<< <i>
The coin was graded AU-58 and looked like it had been cleaned with a brillo pad. Incredible hairlines covered the entire coin surface, and probably only graded xf-45 at best before the cleaning. What a piece of junk! Unfortunately, the guy paid 1600.00 for it?

Guess where? E-bay >>



I hope you gave him a little education on how to spot that bad of cleaning and cautioned him against spending $1600 for anything that he doesn't know at least a little bit about. Unless he is rich and $1600 ain't nothing to him, then I guess it is no big deal.

Merc

Coin world had an article about 10 months ago where one of the ANACS graders wrote an article on counterfeits. He received an NTC graded MS65 1912-S (maybe it was a 1910-S) and it was sent in for a crossover. The coin was fake and the article showed why. It wasn't even that hard to detect. NTC is a joke.

wingedliberty

I agree with Merc. Both Curt and I live in Florida, where the forces of evil are gathered and well entrenched. ACG and NTC are headquartered here and proliferate the marketplace.
There are serious concerns about authenticity and the blatant allowance for impaired examples in their holders. Avoid both like the plague.

BillJones

Yes, I moved here in July and have had tables at just a few shows. The number of NTC coins that you see down here is amazing. There are loads of PCI coins too. ACG is not quite as plentiful. I think their reputation has scarced off a lot of dealers. NTC is a "new face" however, and for the poorly educated who have problems forming their own conclusions, the truth is yet to sink in.

wingedliberty

Hello neighbor: (BillJones):
I hope you are having a good Thanksgiving.

jdimmick

Stujoe,
I saw your post and would like to comment on that!

Whenever I can help educate a fellow numismatist (especially newbie'S) on the right and wrong purchases, I always try too. I love talkin and teachin coins and sharing my areas of knowledge. And would hope that someone else would do me the same on areas that I am unfamiliar with. As many have In the past.

But, this particular gentleman is older and thier are several similar members in our local club that buy the same type material. I have often tried to help out and give advice only to be treated like an outsider. Many of these guys have been buying coins for a long time and dont want to listen to a younger member such as myself. A lot of times I feel like they are tellin me "What do you know, I been buying/dealin coins before you were born". Many of them get offended when I try to offer advice and opinions, so I unfortunately I dont always comment and keep them to my self.

jim d

airplanenut

<< <i>jeremy dont make a blanket statement like that. While over graded could possibly be, I dont think any company purposely slabs counterfiet gold. >>

I said almost always... that gives room for the occasional one that they missed (ie, got right). Take a sampling of 100 NTC gold coins, and see how many will grade at or above at PCGS.

Jeremy