Is it worth slabbing foreign coins?

tlhoy · November 4, 2003 11:03PM

American coins in a PCGS slab are treated like gold here in the U.S. (IMHO)
Does PCGS mean anything overseas?
Would it be wise to spend the $15 fee to have PCGS grade a foreign coin worth about $100-$200?

newbiecollector · November 4, 2003 11:07PM

Not to me. but that is just my opnion.

ccrdragon · November 4, 2003 11:11PM

About the only reason to slab the coin would be if you were worried about having the coin authenticated - other than that, I would say no.

newsman · November 4, 2003 11:48PM

It's also good to slab coins you want to sell -- in general they seem to bring higher prices because the buyer has more confidence in the coin, although there are exceptions.

tlhoy · November 5, 2003 12:00AM

<< It's also good to slab coins you want to sell -- in general they seem to bring higher prices because the buyer has more confidence in the coin, although there are exceptions. >>

I've noticed this with U.S. coins, I didn't know if it was true with foreign coins.

Automan · November 5, 2003 12:13AM

PCGS means nothing here. Nothing. Slabbed coins are curiosities.

Automan

nwcs · November 5, 2003 12:17AM

I have bought a couple slabbed foreign. I slabbed 2 common gold coins and one spectacular onza and a philippine coin. But that onza deserves to be displayed again... Onza

newsman · November 5, 2003 12:30AM

<< PCGS means nothing here. Nothing. Slabbed coins are curiosities.

Automan >>

It means a lot to US collectors, who buy a lot of darkside coins, and to buyers in online auctions, where it's hard to tell flaws from the picture and the slab gives a measure of confidence. Would you pay top dollar for a coin on eBay the seller says is gem BU with a blurry picture? If I had a coin that was worth $100 or more if authentic and properly graded, I would slab it because I believe the cost of slabbing is lower than the discount for unslabbed coins in most cases. If PCGS prices are too high, send it to ANACS.

izzy452 · November 5, 2003 12:37AM

I beleive PCGS charges $ 30.00 for World Coins

Walt

cacheman · November 5, 2003 12:49AM

I recently slabbed a number of my British coins, including a Gothic Crown, because I intend on selling them or trading them here in the U.S. That is the only reason though (based on comments above) and I don't slab anything in my personal collection I intend on keeping.

newbiecollector · November 5, 2003 1:03AM

<< I recently slabbed a number of my British coins, including a Gothic Crown, because I intend on selling them or trading them here in the U.S. That is the only reason though (based on comments above) and I don't slab anything in my personal collection I intend on keeping. >>

Well said!

ajaan · November 5, 2003 5:28AM

IMO yes for some coins. No for others.

tbirde56 · November 5, 2003 5:54AM

I would say YES if the coin is a GEM example of the best of its kind, in other words, if you never expect to find one any better of that type again. And it would help to be worth (potentially) $100+ to justify the slab and postage fees.
Something like this maybe:

trozau · November 5, 2003 7:32AM

I don't submit any of my coins for slabbing but I do buy coins already in slabs when I find them at a good price.

Clankeye · November 5, 2003 8:28AM

There just isn't a one-size-fits-all answer to that question.

It depends on the coin. It depends on the person's intent. It depends, it depends, it depends.

There are times I believe it can be very worthwhile to slab a foreign coin. And other times it would be an excercise in futility.

You know--I think it's pretty much that way on the liteside too, come to think of it.

Clankeye

coinkat · November 5, 2003 9:11AM

I am not sure there is a short answer for this. Some coins are worthy of slabbing if they are of a high grade or a variety that perhaps PCGS, NGC or ANACs recognizes. Foreign varieties can be fun...I have bought them and don't even know it sometimes for days, months or even years later.

MacCrimmon · November 5, 2003 9:55AM

<< I beleive PCGS charges $ 30.00 for World Coins >>

Actually, the Econ. rate for World coins is $16, but it might take over 3 months before you see them again.

Is it worth slabbing? For the American market, it seems it's a must. Last year I posted 4 premium Swiss coins for sale 'raw' on eBay, and got zero takers. Every one of those coins was either MS66 or SP66 or higher when PCGS slabbed them this year. Either way, it comes down to collectors knowing for sure that what you are offering is superior for the grade assigned.

tbirde! Lovely centavo, lad!

Aethelred · November 5, 2003 10:26AM

I like slabs, but I live in the US so my opinion is colored by that. I am in the process of having most of my British collection slabbed.

1jester · November 5, 2003 11:05AM

Traitor!!!!

Bruce · November 5, 2003 11:09AM

I think cacheman put it well. I am not a fan of the plastic coffin.

wybrit · November 5, 2003 11:11AM

Slabs are fine for selling purposes, if the coin is in premium condition.

I also prefer to buy coins that have not been cleaned. Since cleaning frequently does not show up on the pictures seen on ebay and elsewhere, a slab coin provides me a little extra confidence that I won't need to return the item after purchase. Most raw British coins I see on ebay that seem UNC are in fact cleaned, whizzed or badly hairlined. Only field cleans, whizzing and polishing seem to be obvious on a picture.

It's not 100% though. I did have to return one coin which was improperly graded - it was bought back by the slabbing company.

Automan · November 5, 2003 4:47PM

Let me qualify my previous post by adding that I live in Sweden, and HERE, PCGS means nothing what so ever, zero, nada, zilch. Most dealers do not know what it is, and could not care less. The entire American grading system is seen as somewhat suspicious, humorous even. It is my distinct impression that this opinion prevails throughout Europe. All in all, I have only seen a handful of slabbed coins for sale, even at shows where there are dozens of dealers.

Automan

SYRACUSIAN · November 6, 2003 9:16PM

I've heard this argument before and Automan is right when he says that sl*bs are mostly seen as a curiosity.

Old collectors aside though,I believe that European dealers are afraid of the numerical US system,because they can no longer pull tricks to the novice (or not so novice) collector and sell him an XF coin as unc. The European mentality (I've been to enough shows all over,to express this opinion) ,is based on the wide difference of knowledge between the dealer and the collector; the bigger it is ,the more they make out of it.Sl*bs are threatening their past century attitude and they're scared,hence their "humorous" remarks.

I agree with most members who already stated that it's safer to buy a sl*bbed coin instead of a row one,at least online. Nobody stops the buyer from cracking them out (and get a kick of it too). For those who still believe that sl*bs will remain a US indiosyncracy,I'd suggest to think twice about it and check eBay's listings ,along with prices realized of sl*bbed Darkside coins,compared to row ones (most recent example,Clankeye's beautiful 2 lira).

Clankeye · November 7, 2003 2:18AM

Here's an example of how third party grading (also known as "slabbing") has been a great benefit to me.

I decided that I wanted to collect a certain date run of Canadian coins in Proof Like with heavy cameo devices. We don't have a lot of dealers in my area that carry Canadian material and we don't have a lot of good shows. So where does that leave me? Buying off eBay or from a few select Canadian dealers who live very far away from me.

I have built almost my entire collection by buying coins off eBay and from these dealers (in some instances sight unseen) by seeking out coins graded by ICCS as "Heavy Cameo." I have yet to be disappointed. That I trust and feel I understand their grading criteria means that I can bid on these coins--sometimes even with tiny or inadequate scans--with a certain amount of confidence.

A couple of times I have strayed from this and purchased raw coins off eBay practically as an experiment. Even with good scans, I have been disappointed in the coins every time.

In this particular area of interest of mine, ICCS makes it possible to even put this collection together. I am absolutely thrilled to have a third party opinion. When I get these coins, they are easily removed from the holders and put in an album. I keep the grading certificates just as a record.

Now why wouldn't European collectors (especially if they are collecting some American material) want the same help and reassurances? Some of the same circumstances probably would apply to them. Far away from the source of the coins, tired of getting ripped off with "problem" raw coins. It could serve them the same way that ICCS serves me. But, I guess they would have to trust whatever third party grading company they are using. And still then have the knowledge and the eye to see whether they are getting a nice coin.

Is there a lot of nonsense involved in the business of, and marketing of third party graded coins? Sure. But, tell me something in life that there isn't.

Third Party Grading. It's just another tool. Use it or don't. But, I can guarantee you this: nobody is going to turn back the hands of time and make it disappear.

Clankeye

1jester · November 7, 2003 3:28AM

Nor would that be desirable. I think TPGs have improved the hobby. And I agree with Dimitri's comments as to why European dealers might not be too enthusiastic about slabs. Ludites never did like technology. However, I must stress that there are many great dealers in Europe (as in the States) who can and do benefit the hobby through their awesome knowledge and dedication to the continuation of the hobby. On that note, I think TPGs and slabbing can also contribute to the hobby, by allowing the wider dissemination of collecting to more individuals.

Clankeye · November 7, 2003 3:46AM

You know, I'm sure a lot of Europeans view TPG as a racket. And certainly there are aspects of it where it is--or is used that way.
But the world of selling raw coins is full of rackets. Always was, always will be. So pick your poison.

I just look at it as an opinion these days. How many of you have walked a coin over to another dealer at a show and asked his opinion? Well, when you aren't buying most of your coins from the local dealer or at shows, it's nice to have an opinion. To either agree with, or not.

Certainly, if someone wants too much for a coin because it is "annointed" by such and such service, you'll always have the right to just say no.

Clankeye

Spinynorman · November 7, 2003 4:21AM

Good points, Clankeye. I really want to find the 1953 PL 5 cents to finish my date run, but the two I've seen auctioned were raw and I didn't have enough confidence in the sellers' ability to judge if they were truly PL coins to risk making a costly mistake. If ICCS had said they were PL, I would have had no problem.
I like your example too, tbirde!

If I find out that it is most likely a trial strike or pattern, I'll probably get it authenticated as such. If it's just a normal circulation strike with a severly rotated reverse (and I ever decide to sell it), then I might have it slabbed if I thought it would help the selling price significantly. Same with that toned Irish shilling.

newsman · November 8, 2003 8:11AM

<< Old collectors aside though,I believe that European dealers are afraid of the numerical US system,because they can no longer pull tricks to the novice (or not so novice) collector and sell him an XF coin as unc. The European mentality (I've been to enough shows all over,to express this opinion) ,is based on the wide difference of knowledge between the dealer and the collector; the bigger it is ,the more they make out of it. Sl*bs are threatening their past century attitude and they're scared,hence their "humorous" remarks. >>

This is a big reason why slabbing is here to stay, especially for US coins. The respectable slabbing companies stand behind their opinions with lifetime grade guarantees and buyback programs, setting a standard which makes much more difficult the dishonest practice of buying cleaned, damaged, whizzed and AU coins and passing them off as BU. This can only be good for the hobby.

I can understand, however, why some European dealers hate slabbing: It exposes them to possible legal liability. EU countries have strong consumer protection laws, and a TPG company that provides honest, consistent grading backed up by a guarantee might also create a standard which could hold up in court when disputes over grading are litigated. If that happens, you can say goodbye to profiting from overgrading and hello to government regulation.

Is it worth slabbing foreign coins?

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