Also, I think there's a huge difference between high grade circulation strikes, and proof strikes. After all, proofs are SUPPOSED to be perfect. So why pay massive premiums for that? I don't see the sense in that at all. For truly rare, ultra-high grade circulation strikes, I can more understand the higher premiums. However, there still are hundreds of millions of them waiting around in bags for people to find, so I won't pay any premium for them as yet. Maybe I'm missing the boat, but let the chips fall where they may. I'm not in the Registry (what I call, ) Madness, so it makes no difference to me if I am not able to find that MS-69 circulation strike from a mint bag or bank roll.
.....GOD
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5
"For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
Some really thoughtful responses ... and not a single pot of boiling oil poured out on anyone -- yep! This is the Dark Side!!!
My philosophy is to let people collect what they want and pay what they want. The wisdom or lack thereof in paying high multiples for condition-rarity moderns (or anything else) is a matter of "investment" wisdom, not "collecting" wisdom. I frankly can't see the charm, but then others probably would say the same about some of the stuff I collect.
<< <i>I frankly can't see the charm, but then others probably would say the same about some of the stuff I collect. >>
Amen!
Indeed, I could care less what someone collects, but I don't like it when naive newcomers get sucked into this 'slab game' while at the same time wholly ignorant of the FACT that that grade is just an opinion. It may be a very educated opinion, but unless the TPGs can reproduce the grade MS/PF70 95 out of 100 times, you better not rely on that opinion and lay an extra thousand down for said coin. Because when it does come time to sell, the majority of buyers will be examining the coin, not the slab.
As to the circ. strikes from the 60s to date; yes, to find them which have a shot at 67 or 68 is extremely difficult. In fact, I plan on dredging through 50,000 or so 1950s - 70s Lincolns over the winter.......I'll report my statistical findings when completed, if I not blind by April.......maybe I'll get lucky and find 50 or so pop-tops to sell those lightsiders.
And Newbie, no offense was taken in whatever manner you thought you had done so.
This is why I only bother with letter grades: F, UNC, ss, vz, etc. IF the difference between a 69 and a 70 were truly significant, that is, if humans could readily tell them apart, the handful of graders at the brand name TPGs wouldn't pull such high incomes. Taco Bell kids get minimum wage because anyone can do it.. these guys get $$$ cause not many can.
I think it has nothing to do with bullion, NCLT, CLT, modern, ancient, slabbed or raw. Each collector goes for what they like and collect within their means. To those that have lots of money, any price is cheap so long as they get what they want.
I never had a second thought about paying the thirty some dollars difference between this one...
and this one...
That's why I'm on the darkside!
As far as what people choose to collect, or pay for what they collect, well that's their business. I can appreciate someone's 50 cent bargain bin find as much as another's $50K manufactured rarity.
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5
"For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
<< <i> For truly rare, ultra-high grade circulation strikes, I can more understand the higher premiums. However, there still are hundreds of millions of them waiting around in bags for people to find, so I won't pay any premium for them as yet. >>
Certainly it's true that there are hundreds of millions of business strike moderns waiting around in rolls and bags to be checked but it should be remembered that most of these are cents. There are also substantial numbers of nickels, halfs, and three types of dollars, but there are very few dimes and quarters around. The few quarters that are around are generally 1965, 1976, or 1998-P or D's. Even with the coins which do exist in substantial numbers it should be remembered that many dates are almost universally poorly made. It matters little that there are a million BU 1970-D nickels in rolls when virtually every specimen is poorly made. There are many such examples.
As for large numbers of gems. No. Almost without exception there will be no moderns available in quantity in high grade gem. Even in gem there will be only a few which are "common".
I do believe you can see the distinction between this thread and a thread which is designed as an attack against people who like moderns, right Clad?
I know you are use to fighting the good fight, but sometimes it's just not there.
I don't think anyone on this forum is attacking people who collect moderns. Any more than they attack slab collectors, medal collectors, or any other preference of collecting.
For the record I feel no different about this auction that Shep has highlighted than say... an extra $50,000 being garnered for a Standing Liberty Quarter having a full head.
I think to view this thread as any kind of inditment of modern collectors is taking it too much to heart.
Clankeye >>
I considered that phrase for a while before I used it. There are just a couple things which could be taken as an attack. It's entirely possible they weren't meant that way and I can be fairly thin skinned on this topic. Certainly I don't believe any of the com- ments were mean spirited just for the sake of being mean spirited.
I also believe that collectors should collect what they what and the market usually dictates the value and prices associated with the state of preservation. I think that Clad King has made several points that are worthy of consideration and I recall that I made a mistake discussing a certain date modern Washington quarter on a thread on the lightside... buy what you like and enjoy what you collect but collect what you like if it is not motivated as an investment... my apologies to Yogi Berra.
There have been several fine points made in this thread and I am going to add more. I did not check to see the closing price of this coin... it was significant and we will leave it at that. My question is... if it sold for $1,300 or more, imagine what you could buy with that money if you hadsettled for an MS66 EXAMPLE of this coin for $15.00? A Charles II Crown graded a high end British GVF or better? Well, I think as collectors you can put your own coin in that spot as to which you would rather have... in any event, enjoy the hobby and collect what you like.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Comments
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5
"For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
My philosophy is to let people collect what they want and pay what they want. The wisdom or lack thereof in paying high multiples for condition-rarity moderns (or anything else) is a matter of "investment" wisdom, not "collecting" wisdom. I frankly can't see the charm, but then others probably would say the same about some of the stuff I collect.
Come on over ... to The Dark Side!
<< <i>I frankly can't see the charm, but then others probably would say the same about some of the stuff I collect. >>
Amen!
Indeed, I could care less what someone collects, but I don't like it when naive newcomers get sucked into this 'slab game' while at the same time wholly ignorant of the FACT that that grade is just an opinion. It may be a very educated opinion, but unless the TPGs can reproduce the grade MS/PF70 95 out of 100 times, you better not rely on that opinion and lay an extra thousand down for said coin. Because when it does come time to sell, the majority of buyers will be examining the coin, not the slab.
As to the circ. strikes from the 60s to date; yes, to find them which have a shot at 67 or 68 is extremely difficult. In fact, I plan on dredging through 50,000 or so 1950s - 70s Lincolns over the winter.......I'll report my statistical findings when completed, if I not blind by April.......maybe I'll get lucky and find 50 or so pop-tops to sell those lightsiders.
And Newbie, no offense was taken in whatever manner you thought you had done so.
My wantlist & references
and this one...
That's why I'm on the darkside!
As far as what people choose to collect, or pay for what they collect, well that's their business. I can appreciate someone's 50 cent bargain bin find as much as another's $50K manufactured rarity.
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5
"For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
<< <i> For truly rare, ultra-high grade circulation strikes, I can more understand the higher premiums. However, there still are hundreds of millions of them waiting around in bags for people to find, so I won't pay any premium for them as yet. >>
Certainly it's true that there are hundreds of millions of business strike moderns waiting around
in rolls and bags to be checked but it should be remembered that most of these are cents. There
are also substantial numbers of nickels, halfs, and three types of dollars, but there are very few
dimes and quarters around. The few quarters that are around are generally 1965, 1976, or 1998-P
or D's. Even with the coins which do exist in substantial numbers it should be remembered that
many dates are almost universally poorly made. It matters little that there are a million BU 1970-D
nickels in rolls when virtually every specimen is poorly made. There are many such examples.
As for large numbers of gems. No. Almost without exception there will be no moderns available in
quantity in high grade gem. Even in gem there will be only a few which are "common".
<< <i>
<< <i>so why attack people who like moderns? >>
I do believe you can see the distinction between this thread and a thread which is designed as an attack against people who like moderns, right Clad?
I know you are use to fighting the good fight, but sometimes it's just not there.
I don't think anyone on this forum is attacking people who collect moderns. Any more than they attack slab collectors, medal collectors, or any other preference of collecting.
For the record I feel no different about this auction that Shep has highlighted than say... an extra $50,000 being garnered for a Standing Liberty Quarter having a full head.
I think to view this thread as any kind of inditment of modern collectors is taking it too much to heart.
Clankeye >>
I considered that phrase for a while before I used it. There are just a couple things
which could be taken as an attack. It's entirely possible they weren't meant that way
and I can be fairly thin skinned on this topic. Certainly I don't believe any of the com-
ments were mean spirited just for the sake of being mean spirited.
There have been several fine points made in this thread and I am going to add more. I did not check to see the closing price of this coin... it was significant and we will leave it at that. My question is... if it sold for $1,300 or more, imagine what you could buy with that money if you hadsettled for an MS66 EXAMPLE of this coin for $15.00? A Charles II Crown graded a high end British GVF or better?
Well, I think as collectors you can put your own coin in that spot as to which you would rather have... in any event, enjoy the hobby and collect what you like.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.