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Set Discussion of the Week--1970 Kelloggs
Davalillo
Posts: 1,846 ✭✭
Forget whether its vintage or not vintage, a lot of people collect it so lets make this our set of the week.
My personal view is that the set is not too difficult in psa 9 but the 10s is where the action is. Gemmint has many pop 1s and will be almost impossible to catch --at least over the next 12-18 months. Dave Jacobs has also assembled a nice set and maybe I should lump my set with his to be more competitive and one of us just accept a 9.0 set--what do you think Dave. King Kellogg also has an impressive set and my friend Steve(Machodoc) also has a great set.
Gemmint has done a great job in increasing collector interest in this set!
Davalillo(Jim)
My personal view is that the set is not too difficult in psa 9 but the 10s is where the action is. Gemmint has many pop 1s and will be almost impossible to catch --at least over the next 12-18 months. Dave Jacobs has also assembled a nice set and maybe I should lump my set with his to be more competitive and one of us just accept a 9.0 set--what do you think Dave. King Kellogg also has an impressive set and my friend Steve(Machodoc) also has a great set.
Gemmint has done a great job in increasing collector interest in this set!
Davalillo(Jim)
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Comments
By the way -- as I have never spent too too much time with this set, can someone tell me with any degree of certainty what separates a PSA 9 from a PSA 10? Obviously centering -- but I wasn't sure if there were subtle characteristics that were the classic dead giveaway. There are SO many PSA 9s out there, and relatively few PSA 10's
Very economical to pursue a "9" set imo.
EDITED: (Added): The only item that would separate a 9 from a 10, would be a very, very, very, slight surface imperfection as a result of mishandling. I do feel these cards were factory cut in gem mint condition in many cases.
Silver Coins
e-bay ID: grilloj39
e-mail: grilloj39@gmail.com
Does anyone know about what it would cost to complete the set in psa 9?
Also, what do the cards bring in relation to smr?
Are there any very difficult cards to get in psa 9?
Is this set vintage or mod.....
Wayne
<< <i>Gemmint has done a great job in increasing collector interest in this set! >>
While I appreciate the sentiment I think it's important to acknowledge Zardoz in all of this. He is an enormous reason why the '70 Kellogg's set became the phenomenon it is today and (like Schmidty said) how it acted as a 3-D springboard for all of the other K sets to follow on the Registry.
It's no secret how much I love this set. The eye appeal of these cards is incredible, and the price is right
<< <i>
Are there any very difficult cards to get in psa 9?
>>
Horlen used to be the nom du jour.
Even though I am not a fan of these cards, I can appreciate the player selection, pricing, and community that the set offers.
CU turns its lonely eyes to you
What's the you say, Mrs Robinson
Vargha bucks have left and gone away?
hey hey hey
hey hey hey
So kudos to the Kellogg guys and best of luck on your sets..
JasP24
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Once I got home I did a search on EBAY and found similar items, so I assume these are not rare. But still neat to have. Here is a link to a similar pack:
My pack also has the Chance on top
Has anyone opened these packs? And what was the outcome if you got them graded? I seems that if these cards were cut very nice from the factory, as was stated above, then the hopes of 10's should be high.
Bruce
1953 Topps in PSA 8
1941 Playball in PSA 8.
1952-1955 Red Man cards in 7 and 8
1950 Bowman in PSA 8
BTW, I also picked up a pack about 6 yrs ago. They look to be in mint condition. Should I get them graded?
SMR is around $1,700 for set--I would guess you could put together for less--maybe quite a bit less--gemmint would have a better estimate.
<< <i>By the way -- as I have never spent too too much time with this set, can someone tell me with any degree of certainty what separates a PSA 9 from a PSA 10? Obviously centering - >>
At this point I'm not 100% certain, but centering has never really been an issue for these cards. Surface area might be the biggest consideration right now. Corners are always important, and hanging chads play a role as well.
<< <i>Does anyone know about what it would cost to complete the set in psa 9? >>
Probably $1,600-1,900 if you're putting it together one card at a time.
<< <i>Also, what do the cards bring in relation to smr? >>
The SMR gives a good indication of 9 prices but not for 10 prices. Checking Ebay is still the most reliable method.
<< <i>Are there any very difficult cards to get in psa 9? >>
At this point not really, but since many of the "tougher" 9's like Powell (pop of 20) are already in sets you may have to wait around a while before you see another on Ebay.
<< <i>Has anyone opened these packs? And what was the outcome if you got them graded? >>
These are 6 card cellos. I've opened a lot of these packs. The results are mixed. Sometimes the cards in the middle are cracked, other times it's a nice pack.
<< <i>BTW, I also picked up a pack about 6 yrs ago. They look to be in mint condition. Should I get them graded? >>
Go for it. It's not like you're breaking open a '52 Topps high numbered pack.
Nice to see you back Dav.
In regards to the 1970 K set...I think it is a perfect starter/casual set for someone getting into collecting graded sets. Lots of stars, 8s and most 9s are priced right, and a nice small set.
Personally....I cannot bring myself to spend huge dollars on a single card...as the "cracking issue" is still lingers in the back of my head.
John
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
- It is an affordable way to complete a high grade set that is almost 35 years old.
- It is loaded with HOFers and stars.
- Kool design
- Kool board members
When submitting raw 70K's, does the curling affect the grade? And if so, do those of you who submit raw have a process to flatten the cards without experiencing cracks? I never used my two freebies for 75% completion and am curious as to the above.
Thanks.
<< <i>When submitting raw 70K's, does the curling affect the grade? And if so, do those of you who submit raw have a process to flatten the cards without experiencing cracks? >>
Cubfan, yes curling has an effect on the grade. Let me put it this way...you may still pull a 9 if the card is curled to some degree, but you won't get a 10. You can flatten the cards with decent success by placing them in a card saver I, then placing a heavy object like some books over it for a period of several weeks/months. It can eliminate a good portion but never all of the curl. There is a risk to this procedure as the card could crack so be careful.
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
If you guys like the baseball set, you'll love the football set.
You are right - they have done a tremendous job in promoting this set! They have also done so in a very entertaining way.
Gemmintman,
Thanks for your help. How many more cards do you need to have the best available of every card in the set? Just curious.
Wayne
I'd hate to play hold 'em with thegemmintman. He holds all of his cards near the vest.
About a year ago, I asked for Kellogg's grading tips. thegemmintman responded in kind with a laundry list of tried and true grading techniques. I searched for that thread today, and thegemmintman had edited out those grading techniques. But, the edit was timestamped about 6 months after the original post.
This guy must have a stone cold poker face. You will have better luck learning the truth behind the Kennedy Assassination or Area 51than how many cards he needs for the highest possible set.
CU turns its lonely eyes to you
What's the you say, Mrs Robinson
Vargha bucks have left and gone away?
hey hey hey
hey hey hey
I would guess that that since gemmint has a 9.77 set rating and the highest rating you can have is 9.82 there are only about 5 cards that gemmint does not have the finest example on. I know King Kellogg has the last card(pop 1-Mincher) or he had it at one point and given his set rating he may have another couple of pop 1s. I think I have 2 that gemmint does not have--Dave may have one.
It will be very interesting to see who wins the Cullen pop 1 that Galveston is shopping...probably gemmint will .
Jim
I have broken your code!!!!!!!!
<< <i>Wayne, I need (#@*) more cards. That's of course an encoded message >>
The # means the number of cards you need.
The @ is right above the 2 on the keyboard.
And the * obviously means squared so 2 squared is 4!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do I win i prize for breaking the code????
Wayne
Wayne
Actually there are 18 cards that have a pop of 0 and another 22 with a pop of 1. I have three of those in my set. 34,42 and 53. What Gemmintman has is all the heavy weight cards. I could catch him with 13 more 10's that have the weights of 4 or more. I could get into the 9.6's with the Clemente and what Jim has that I dont. I know for a fact Gemmintman is missing at least 21 cards and its more like 25. What do you say Gemmy am I close.
Dave
1954
After what you have done in some of these other sets, who would bet against you. Hmmmm--a Stump/Davalillo combined effort against the gemmintman--could be interesting.
Jim
With my two and the Mincher, it is at least 24.
Jim
1.) The Biggest difference between a 9 and a 10 besides centering is overall eye appeal of the card. The 10's seem to have just an exttra dose of clarity ,color and overall eye appeal. It is kind of like finding a good woman you just know when you see it.... When I get a card like this I have always gotten a 9 and 40-50% of the time a 10.
2.) 6 card Packs. I gave up on the 6 card plastic packs that have the team decals for several reasons : First the cards are very loose with a lot of room to move . As a result the cards get light surface scratches the automatically knock the card down to an "8". At which point you would not get your grading costs back on Ebay on 90% of the cards in the set. Second I was getting a lot of opened packs tha t had been melted with a blow dryer the cards searched and replaced with cards that all had surface scratches. A lot of the 9's are depressed right now for a lot of this issue. Only the tougher 9's are giving a reasonable return. You are better off buying the easy PSA 9 's off of Ebay it will probably cost you less right now.....
I pull a lower percentage of 9's from packs than I do buying loose raw on EBAY.
3.) Single card packs - Used to be a good source for cards to send in for grading. Lately most of what i got for all years from this issue were a lot of off-centered cards that were at best a PSA 8 or 9 OC. Also I saw a much higher proportion of hairline cracks in the cards.
4.) Tough cards I found the toughest cards from the set in PSA 9 to be :
#1 Kranepool More often than not had surface scratches.....
#16-30 have fewer submissions and a significantly lower number of cards are available in PSA 9 when comparing commons or superstars from the rest of the set. A significantly lower percentage of cards get PSA 9's in this run than the rest ofthe set. Particularly tough from this run are #16 Carlos MAy , #28 Matty Alou and #30 Tim Cullen. #27 Clemente and #29 Stargell are very scarce compared to the other number of Hall-of-famers and go for siginificant premiums.
#2 Peter Rose and #58 Johnny Bench usually do well in Auctions and have seen the price explode on these 2 cards in heated biding.
5.) Putting together a set , mostly from graded on EBAy will cost $1600-2200 . If you find some good raw you could do it for significantly less ....
Good point, how about all three.
Jim
We forgot about the cullen, Thats 25. So 25 take away 18 equals 7.
The 3 in my set the 2 in your set the 1 in the King's set plus the cullen.
HMMMMM
Dave
Allow me to impart my personal method for getting some or all of the curl out of K's. This procedure has worked well for me in the past, and although I have never had any problems with it, there are of course risks to any trick that involves trying to get old plastic to do things it doesn't want to do naturally.
Take a curled card and place it in direct sunlight for a couple of hours (or a little longer in the winter). This warms the plastic on the card just enough that it becomes less rigid. Never place a K card under a hot lamp! The sunlight is a slower and less risky way of getting the plastic warm to the point of that you can next place the card in a heavy book for flattening while it cools down. Leave the card in a book for a few days.
Like I said, I have never had a problem with this, but as us investment types have to tell you, "Past performance is no guarantee of future returns". I swear by it however.
This question or questions is(are) taking a long time for gemmint to answer. Does it take him that long to count them or is he being evasive?
Jim
<< <i>Does it take him that long to count them or is he being evasive? >>
Wow it really takes a long time to count all these 10's! Let's see where was I? Hmmm I better start over.
Anyway isn't this thread to discuss and honor the greatness of the 1970 Kellogg's set?
You have the alltime great set or at least almost.
Now for all of you I'd hate to see ya all at the poker table. Top 5 sets all hidden wheres the fun in that!
Its interesting to see how they used the same backgrounds for many of the cards, but just shifted them a little. Its almost like you can put some together to get a continuous background like Doubleheaders.
But there are many shots at Shea (including some with American League players), a couple different background of batting cage scenes, a background of fans, the red and yellow fascades on a couple, trees, the players playing catch and bunting, just blue sky and many more that make them very interesting. This extra look made me appreciate the ones with the old Yankee Stadium fascade on them. And aside from the Billy Williams card (of course), the Pepitone is now my favorite due to the historical background (nice pick 1954).
Its just a fun set that was very unique to the ordinary collector in 1970 (I was about 11 then) and it came out at a time when baseball still had a ton of magic to it.
And I will agree with Davalillo, the only way for anyone to surpass thegemmintman will be for someone to wait until a new batch of about 30 new 10's pop up from who knows where and for Gemmy to be hibernating during that period. He's the King of this set, no doubt about it.
<< <i>Its interesting to see how they used the same backgrounds for many of the cards, but just shifted them a little. Its almost like you can put some together to get a continuous background like Doubleheaders. >>
<< <i>But there are many shots at Shea (including some with American League players), a couple different background of batting cage scenes, a background of fans, the red and yellow fascades on a couple, trees, the players playing catch and bunting, just blue sky and many more that make them very interesting. This extra look made me appreciate the ones with the old Yankee Stadium fascade on them. And aside from the Billy Williams card (of course), the Pepitone is now my favorite due to the historical background (nice pick 1954). >>
Cubfan - you're really a sick and demented individual for examining these cards with that degree of accuracy. I applaud you sir and hereby knight you as an honored member of the 3-D roundtable.
Im looking forward to the afforded rights and privileges and especially the secret handshake.
It is a very fun set.
Nice pick up on the examining of thee cards. You encouraged me to do the same thing. Your not a doctor are you. If not maybe the Gem Man with give you a honorery in Kellology.
Its not the secret handshake you need to watch its whats in the Koolaid that gets you. Chicks cant hold there smoke thats what it is.
Dave
<< <i> honorery in Kellology. >>
LMAO!
This set, as others have pointed out, has so many positive attributes going for it. It's brimming with HOF'ers, a lovely clean, uncluttered design, and can be assembled by the average guy without going bankrupt. What is most important is that the goal of completion is attainable. Let's face it, completing a set gives one a warm fuzzy feeling and accomplishment.
The subject of 10's. Having received one or two of them, IMHO,not only is it is the clarity of the image but also a couple of other factors. One is the front surface, the vertical lines of the plastic must be absolutely flawless, no nicks and no highs/lows in the gloss. Another is the paper on the rear of the card on almost all the cards has a wrinkle towards the T margin that runs L-R when looking at the card head on. This came about during the manufacturing process, and PSA does not mark the card down in grade unless this wrinkle is quite pronounced, and I mean Grand Canyon time. The 10's either have zero apparent wrinke, or you really have to strain the eyeballs to see it. The "chaff" when the cards were separated must be clean with little if any fuzz, but no show any evidence of having been cut, or cleaned up by a razor.
The subject of the cellos. I have pulled some lovely cards out of them, I have also pulled some garbage. I mean cards that look as though they've been through the treadmill. Bottom line: They are a real gamble.
The opaque one card packs. Again, similar results. I once opened one that contained a Singer with a huge glob of clear molten plastic. I guess the QC department was out to lunch when that was sealed up.From that day on, I always felt the surface of these packs before I considered opening them. Sometimes, it's best to leave things the way that the card gods had intended.
This set stands alone among its contemporaries. Revolutionary design with wide distribution (inserted before we hear from Murcerfan and his TEST 68T's). The set could be issued today, and despite all the technological advances in card production, not look dated.
They're not just cards, they're friggin' works of art!
In general however, I consider the unopened packs/envelopes just another facet of my collection. Two years ago I acquired a complete 1971 set in snow-white unopened single envelopes and agonized for days about submitting it, but in the end I decided to leave it be and to go ahead and build a graded set from scratch, which took me about 6 months to do beginning in July 2002.
Z has nailed it when discussing all of the attractions of the 1970 set, so I'll close by repeating a K question whose answer has always eluded me: Where was Aaron?
I totally agree with you.
In my youth....I'm 45 as we speak, I just started clueing into baseball and card collecting around 1968.
I collected the baseball and football issues from that time on, and I can tell you when those Baseball 3-D's came out in 1970, I all most lost my mind.
To me, they were so FAR SUPERIOR to anything else I had ever seen......they became my COLLECTING OBSESSION!!
The images of the players just EXPLODED, as I opened the white envelopes.
I can remember eating Kellogg's corn flake's for breakfast, coming home after school eating another bowl.
My lord, I got absolutely sick of the stuff.
It even got to the point where I would take the box out of the house and eat it right out of the box.
I can remember digging a whole down at the lake a few blocks away, and pouring in the rest of the box.
Just to get rid of the stuff so mom would buy another box.
I think I ended up with about 55 of the original 75 ct. issue.
That was all I could take, at the time.
To think that they might have had a mail in coupon on the box, that I could have used with a couple bucks to get the complete set absolutely sickens me to this day.
I remember the high lites as every once in a while you would pull multiple cards from the box.
One time I think I recived three. That was Christmas!!
1970 Kellogg's 3-D cards were AWESOME.
I started collecting them again a couple months back and am enjoying them all over again.
Only this time without the flakes, thank goodness for small favors.
For its time....an exceiting visual and ground breaking issue.
At least in my mind.
Mojorob
Those of you who are 35 and under really cant appreciate just how different and technologically innovative these cards seemed at that time. Remember, there was only 1 Topps set per year (5 cards for 5 cents) and in 1970 those cards had the dull gray border. The 3-D cards were a completely new ballgame.
And Macho, I always wondered about Aaron as well. Also, where was Yaz in that first set? He was probably just as, if not more, popular than Aaron at that time.
I was only around 11 years old at the time, but I remember pulling a Tim Cullen from the box and thinking, I'VE BEEN HAD, RIPPED OFF!!
Tim Cullen and his .216 batting average and 2 homers....or something like that.
I still to this day, wonder how he got to be on the inital 3-D Baseball issue??
I also remember a guy by the name of Tom Barrington, that was a back up running back for the N.O. Saints that was kind of Kellogg's Football equalivalent to Cullen in either the 70 or 71 issue.
A couple of very curious selections to be sure.
Mojorob