World's finest 1796 Likerty half dime - honest!
roadrunner
Posts: 28,313 ✭✭✭✭✭
Check out ebay auction 3053039579. This coin is only one of 6 graded by PCGS over 17 years of operations.......oops but it is not graded by PCGS! Also forgot to mention that PCGS didn't even track varieties of this until the late 1990's. Coin is decidedly of AU details with a very orig look. Seller claims to be one of the finest known. Claims totally undamaged and a few minor adjustment marks do not detract. I wonder how he missed the deep scratches, I mean "canyons," gouged across both sides?
What's the net value of such a coin? Currently bid at around $1800 or equivalent of CDN Fine 15 money. I would have thought this was worth more in the Good-VG range due to the severity of the damage. Seller needs to buy some glasses. But I'll give him an upcheck on his photos that show the marks in every bit of their gory detail.
roadrunner
What's the net value of such a coin? Currently bid at around $1800 or equivalent of CDN Fine 15 money. I would have thought this was worth more in the Good-VG range due to the severity of the damage. Seller needs to buy some glasses. But I'll give him an upcheck on his photos that show the marks in every bit of their gory detail.
roadrunner
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Too much money for a hacked coin.
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what i,m wondering is how old those scratches are.
there were a few coins in our past that were intentionally damaged this way by some disgruntled folks
for social and or political reasons. What those reasons were I cant recall. I remember some poeple
would scratch an X on seated halfs to show their dismay towards some idea they believed the coin represented.
How do you ID adjustment marks. I notice there are some oddities with the gouges in that the 2 on the right look like they are flat at the bottom. Also the design continues in the flat of the canyon on those two.
I do think most of the marks were not made at the mint but what if... some people with $$$ are willing to buy the story.
Live Long and Prospect.
OUCH !!
Steve
"THE COIN IS UNDAMAGED, UNBENT, UNCLEANED, UNREPAIRED, AND UNALTERED IN ANY WAY. EVERY OTHER 1796 BUST DIME I EVER SAW WAS HARSHLY CLEANED"
If you thought the auction write up took the cake, read this. And I quote:
"I figure since this it was mint state, the marks were mint made. Anyone who is in the league to collect these knows what they are and they are going to remove the superficial scratches, retone it, and probably put it in a PCGS MS64 holder when they are done."
Wow. This seller is in 100% denial. At best this is a lightly cleaned AU with minimal mint luster left. But he is aware of people out there who can remove metal from a coin right down to the design, replace the detail and luster, then retone the coin, and convince PCGS to 64 it. Have coin doctors evolved this far in the past week? Some new technology? Quickshipper should have included this reply in his auction description as it would bring more money knowing the coin can be upgraded to an easy 64 after a little minor work.
roadrunner
<< <i>Looking closely at the gouges I have a couple of questions:
How do you ID adjustment marks. I notice there are some oddities with the gouges in that the 2 on the right look like they are flat at the bottom. Also the design continues in the flat of the canyon on those two. Additionally, the center of the three appears to go under the E. The left hand one looks more like it was scratched with a knife. The horizontal ones appear to have raised metal at the edges so I would think those were made after minting. I know the mint has damaged some early coins pretty severely with adjustment marks but how do you tell? This is an interesting coin if you look close, or am I just tired? >>
Adjustment marks were made with a file, prior to striking, so they often did flatten out some after the design was struck onto the flan. But they usually tended to be more toward the edges of a coin, not right in the center.
One can look at this coin and tell within a fraction of a second that these are not file marks. They are perpendicular, not parallel. Definitely scratched with a knife or an awl or a nail or something similar. Rather deliberately. They look like "contemporary" scratches to me, though. (i.e., 200-year-old damage).
That's a cryin' shame, because that would have been one absolutely incredible coin. The seller is definitely ignorant or in denial, but even so, that's a valuable piece, even as-is. What a shame.
Sadly, that seems to be par for the course with Draped half dimes, though. I remember searching for a problem-free G-F coin for my old type set. It took me the better part of two years to find one, and even then, the one I bought had a slight bend to it (apparently not enough for ANACS to net-grade it- they gave it a G6). Seems like they're all either bent or scratched or beat up, unless they're pristine UNC survivors that would cost the about as much as a new full-sized sedan.
I kind of read this as something like -Yes, I'm a crook, but hey I steal less than the next guy so it's OK.
Well that is encouraging. The seller has come down from saying this could be a repaired MS64 to just a net XF. What's next: "Fine15"?
I couldn't believe that one of the higher bidders had close to 300 buys from individual sellers. I hope his collection is not full of coins with adjustment marks, planchet streaks, and the like.
roadrunner
Not.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Maybe Ms. Liberty was threaten by a vampire in 1798 and had to cross herself.
As for the previous owner who "crossed it," I once read that it took an amount of intelligence to make a cross with two lines. This coin shows how false that statement is.
I collect early half dimes, and the weakest part of my set is my 1796 pieces. I've always wanted to upgrade my example of this variety. The piece I have is a VF, but it's got a couple of teeth marks on it when someone perhaps tried to test its validity. Still my coin is no where near as bad as this poor thing. I've had my chance to get better examples and blown it everytime. As a collector sometimes you get lucky and some times you don't. I've been very lucky as a collector, but not with 1796 half dimes.