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Can you tell why PCGS bagged this coin.

MadMartyMadMarty Posts: 16,697 ✭✭✭
My dealer buddy drives almost 300 miles to have me walk this 1889-CC Morgan through PCGS. The picture sucks!, but it is a PL coin. PCGS Bodybagged it, can you tell why? Some of you already know, so keep your yaps shut!
image
It is not exactly cheating, I prefer to consider it creative problem solving!!!

Comments

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    mdwoodsmdwoods Posts: 5,560 ✭✭✭
    Questionable toning?
    National Register Of Big Trees

    We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
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    Environmental damage?
    David
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    Because you had it?? image
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    PlacidPlacid Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭
    Too ugly?
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    Submissions are down and they are hoping you resubmit it????image
    image
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    TheNumishTheNumish Posts: 1,628 ✭✭
    For an 1889-CC coin looks too good to be true. Can't figure it out from the scan. Spit it out Marty. What's wrong with it?
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    BubbleheadBubblehead Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭
    Questionable Color!
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    PVC?
    Constellatio Collector sevenoften@hotmail.com
    ---------------------------------
    "No Good Deed Goes Unpunished!"
    "If it don't make $"
    "It don't make cents""
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    MadMartyMadMarty Posts: 16,697 ✭✭✭
    Yep. Questionable Color! The coin is white (ask jason he saw it in person), it has a tint of gold. And they bagged it! That was $100 down the crapper!
    It is not exactly cheating, I prefer to consider it creative problem solving!!!

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    segojasegoja Posts: 6,141 ✭✭✭✭
    Is it real?
    JMSCoins Website Link


    Ike Specialist

    Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986

    image
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    PlacidPlacid Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭
    Pcgs is right that coin does not deserve to be in a pcgs holder. image
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    LAWMANLAWMAN Posts: 1,274 ✭✭
    Funky color.
    DSW
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    Cam40Cam40 Posts: 8,146 ✭
    Easy solution. Send it to NGC. Its a 64 atleast, by their standards.
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    BaleyBaley Posts: 22,663 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Send it to NGC. Its a 64 atleast, by their standards

    No, it is not.

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

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    It was cleaned? The toning looks very uneven......I'm just guessing here.....

    Edit Note: After I submitted my post to this thread, I read all the responses.....
    Madeddie
    "The more I know, the less I understand"



    ***********************************
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    MadMartyMadMarty Posts: 16,697 ✭✭✭
    ANACS gave it a quick look at. Pegged it at a 62PL or a 63PL
    It is not exactly cheating, I prefer to consider it creative problem solving!!!

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    IrishMikeIrishMike Posts: 7,737 ✭✭✭
    Send it to NCS and get it dipped. If it then slabs in an NGC holder he hasn't lost any money. An MS 89CC should bring about the same money in either holder. In the event it remains in an NCS holder at least its verified and should still sell easily.
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    I dunno...UMMMMM someone took a torch to it?
    What is money, in reality, but dirty pieces of paper and metal upon which privilege is stamped?
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    fivecentsfivecents Posts: 11,207 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>PCGS Bodybagged it, can you tell why? >>



    Because you had that "I just drove three hunderd miles to submit this one coin on walk thru" look on your face when you handed the coin to the grader? The heavy breathing probably didn't help either.imageimage
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    Cam40Cam40 Posts: 8,146 ✭
    because grading is not a science and just an opinion by someones own standards grading opinions will
    continue to be all over the map, even on the same coin.
    PCGS could, by their own standards, justifiably give that coin a 67. Yes even a 67 with that amount of wear
    or weakness of strike.
    I think it all depends on WHO is submitting the thing. Oh sure, thats supposed to not be allowed to happen right?
    Right. If you believe that, I got this bridge I wanna sell ya. Its really nice too. Its in Brooklyn.
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    Because it's yours and you were chewing on a potato when you took it to the grading table? image
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    A quick dip and it will be a 62/3PL

    the coin should have not been bagged. PCGS must laugh all the way to the bank when they bag coins like this for $100 a pop.

    Who here thinks PCGS should give a 50% credit towards grading for bagged coins? They have no liability if it is not in a slab but if it is in a slab they ave 100% liability.

    What do you think?
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    fivecentsfivecents Posts: 11,207 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Who here thinks PCGS should give a 50% credit towards grading for bagged coins? They have no liability if it is not in a slab but if it is in a slab they ave 100% liability. >>



    jb...This would be great for the submitter, but not to fair to PCGS. After all, some of bodybagged coins are no brianer problem coins. Plus there would be a two year submission turn around at PCGS because the submissions would go thru the roof.
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    mgoodm3mgoodm3 Posts: 17,497 ✭✭✭
    Maybe it's just the pic but the surfaces look funny, esp. on the obv. Is it real?
    coinimaging.com/my photography articles Check out the new macro lens testing section
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    fcloudfcloud Posts: 12,133 ✭✭✭✭
    Whizzed or cleaning.

    There is probably a tiny spec somewhere that a grader saw that nobody else would ever be able to find.

    President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay

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    coinkatcoinkat Posts: 24,553 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Artificial color for starters... a bath is not going to help. It has a look as if it has already been bathed afew times resulting in what could be environmental damage. Sorry... but my opinions are based on the scan and perhaps my thoughts would be more encouraging if I saw the coin. I am alittle surprised with the ANACS grade...

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

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    BaleyBaley Posts: 22,663 ✭✭✭✭✭
    PCGS could, by their own standards, justifiably give that coin a 67-cam40

    dood, what are you smoking? image

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

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    MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,787 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The coin is white (ask jason he saw it in person), it has a tint of gold.

    Maybe it looks white to you, but in that scan it looks brown and blue to me.

    I guess competition would force PCGS to charge less than $100 a coin if it was possible to grade from a scan.
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
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    nwcsnwcs Posts: 13,386 ✭✭✭
    The coin looks bad in the picture, made me question its authenticity.
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    Wihizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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    291fifth291fifth Posts: 25,228 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Looks like a PVC haze.
    All glory is fleeting.
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    relayerrelayer Posts: 10,570 ✭

    Because they don't have any other blue ones like that slabbed
    image
    My posts viewed image times
    since 8/1/6
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    Looks pretty shiny. Has this coin been "chromed."
    Buy/Sell/Trade Rainbow Morgans
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    Cam40Cam40 Posts: 8,146 ✭
    Baley- I,m not calling the coin a 67 myself. I,m saying that grade opinions can be all over the place by even the best of graders.
    About PCGS`s standards, I know I,ve read it here and in their book that even a 67 can have a substantial amount of visible rub and still make that lofty grade.
    So, what I might be smoking doesnt really matter. I,m just parroting what I,ve heard here from reputable sources.
    I dont make the rules of standard grading. I just observse them.......BTW , wanna toke?
    image
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    bearcavebearcave Posts: 3,996 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Baley- I,m not calling the coin a 67 myself. I,m saying that grade opinions can be all over the place by even the best of graders.
    About PCGS`s standards, I know I,ve read it here and in their book that even a 67 can have a substantial amount of visible rub and still make that lofty grade.
    So, what I might be smoking doesnt really matter. I,m just parroting what I,ve heard here from reputable sources.
    I dont make the rules of standard grading. I just observse them.......BTW , wanna toke?
    image >>



    Pass it on over!

    image
    Ken
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    BaleyBaley Posts: 22,663 ✭✭✭✭✭
    well, that coin does not have a MS67 level of "rub" for a Morgan dollar, it has the pecks and ticks of an MS61 or 62 coin at best, if it makes mint state at all. I understand your point about the variability of grading, and the leniency that older type coins such as bust coins [sometimes] receive in the grading room, but do not think that applies here. as for the other, don't bogart it, pass it on over here.

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

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    Cam40Cam40 Posts: 8,146 ✭
    image Truce!!!! Here, take the peace pipe. And this pocket-piece Peace dollar to cover the bowl
    after your hit. There ya go. Dont waste any now...... image

    what would i do without the laughing jester. image


    i agree the coin exhibits more wear or weak strike than rub in this case.
    i did exagerate it too much......(cough, cough) my bad.

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    1jester1jester Posts: 8,637 ✭✭✭
    The coin looks not only baggy, but also the surfaces have this strange corroded look, as if it had been damaged by PVC.

    "Truce!!!! Here, take the peace pipe. And this pocket-piece Peace dollar to cover the bowl
    after your hit. There ya go. Dont waste any now......

    what would i do without the laughing jester." --Cam40

    Hey, I like the Jester too!!image

    Now pass the bong!!!

    imageimageimage

    PS: a Peace Dollar bowl cover????!!! That's one huge bowl....image
    .....GOD
    image

    "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9

    "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5

    "For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
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    Truce!!!! Here, take the peace pipe. And this pocket-piece Peace dollar to cover the bowl
    after your hit. There ya go. Dont waste any now......

    what would i do without the laughing jester.


    UHOH! Is he getting a RUSH, or, is it lack of oxygen to the brain?...Always has been a tough experience to distinguish....image
    What is money, in reality, but dirty pieces of paper and metal upon which privilege is stamped?
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    PlacidPlacid Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭
    image
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    WHEW!...A hint of red lebanese has filled this room through osmosis...image
    What is money, in reality, but dirty pieces of paper and metal upon which privilege is stamped?
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    remumcremumc Posts: 1,284 ✭✭✭
    Marty,

    The reason is because you submitted it, it wasn't an AU58, therefore it must be bogus.

    Regards,

    Wayne
    Regards,

    Wayne

    www.waynedriskillminiatures.com
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    BaleyBaley Posts: 22,663 ✭✭✭✭✭
    probably NGC would give it MS63PL image

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

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    RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
    Baley,

    I agree. At NGC it's a solid MS63PL. Absolutely no doubt.

    Russ, NCNE
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    BaleyBaley Posts: 22,663 ✭✭✭✭✭
    hmmm, I don't know if I'd call it solid. Maybe they give it three quarters of a point for being a rare date CC dollar, and if it were a different date/mm it would just be a 62?

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

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    RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
    Baley,

    Good point. Maybe Marty should submit it to NGC and see what happens.

    Russ, NCNE
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    BaleyBaley Posts: 22,663 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Oh, they'll put it in a 63 holder, a $5K boost to make up for all those 58s from across the street image

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

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    Competition can be a GOOD thing !!!
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    Break out the MS70 and some Q-tips--5 minutes work and you'll be rich! Or send it to me.
    Curmudgeon in waiting!

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