1955 Topps Roberto Clemente PSA 10

mikeschmidt · October 1, 2003 1:36AM

"PSA Grades First Gem Mint 10 Clemente Rookie

That's right. After 12 years and almost 7,000,000 cards later, PSA has graded its first Gem Mint 10 Roberto Clemente rookie card. Always considered a popular card, this 1955 Topps Gem is simply a superb specimen and part of one of the most popular sets of all-time. The set also includes great rookie cards of Sandy Koufax and Harmon Killebrew. There are PSA Gem Mint examples of those two cards in circulation already with the only PSA Gem Mint 10 Killebrew rookie selling for $55,000 just about one year ago. This Clemente rookie card is certain to set a record and enter exclusive company on the all-time prices realized list for sportscards. We will keep you posted when this amazing card sells -- let the bidding begin!"

Does anyone have any history on this grade? Who submitted -- where the card is now? I have a fairly good idea in my head who the major players will be when this card does sell -- I'm just curious to see if it sells privately or publically.

Too bad that Clemente cards are no longer as hot as they were 3-4 years ago. Nonetheless, the market for HOF RC's in 10 has only intensified in the past 4 years -- so I imagine this card will go for mega-bucks.

rw2win · October 1, 2003 1:41AM

Schmidt - Where did you see this? I would love just to see a scan of the card!

mikeschmidt · October 1, 2003 1:50AM

on this week's PSA Insider

helionaut · October 1, 2003 1:58AM

If a PSA 10 Aaron went for $125,000 (IIRC) a couple years ago, then I'd imagine this card might end up somewhere around or above that. If a Killebrew 10 brought $55,000 last year, Clemente's popularity would surely bring double that. I just hope its a strong 10 and not just one that meets the criteria.

I remember reading an article in Tuff Stuff or some other card magazine about 8-9 years ago where someone paid $8,000 (4x Beckett) for what was described as a flawless Clemente RC. Naturally it wasn't graded, though I wonder if that particular copy ever was graded.

norty · October 1, 2003 2:47AM

I'm not positive, but I thought I heard that the card was graded at Fort Washington.

goodriddance189 · October 1, 2003 3:06AM

i remember several years ago in beckett where the first PSA 10 Mantle rookie (1951 Bowman) was graded....sold for $30k

burrite · October 1, 2003 3:08AM

Craig Roehrig got the card graded at Fort Washington. I'm told the card has already sold (i think the number was $150k) to a collector who was NOT one of the usual suspects (merkel, branca, fogel, etc).

andy k

qualitycards · October 1, 2003 3:15AM

I heard it sold to an unnamed athlete for a price north of 6 figures after some 'major league' haggling - the seller didn't want to chance it in an auction where they would need a legit underbidder in order to run the price up...jay

Basilone · October 1, 2003 3:17AM

Just in time for the off-season for that collector......that card will be the most exciting thing baseball wise for him this post-season.

John

GATOR5 · October 1, 2003 3:25AM

Dimitri Young?????????

mikeschmidt · October 1, 2003 3:46AM

<< Just in time for the off-season for that collector......that card will be the most exciting thing baseball wise for him this post-season.

John >>

He might just be happy his team didn't send a major league futility record -- winning five of the last six games!

Basilone · October 1, 2003 3:54AM

MS-

Did I mention I have one of the largest private collections of said player....I think Im at 60 cards and counting in raw form.

John

mikeschmidt · October 1, 2003 4:02AM

<< - the seller didn't want to chance it in an auction where they would need a legit underbidder in order to run the price up...jay >>

When has that sellers people in the past when they knew there was a buyer who would pay megabucks? Perhaps it is a different ballgame with high-five to six figure cards, I don't know. But there are certainly enough stories abound in this hobby about blantant / discrete price manipulation, that this card would do well in an auctio, with or without legitimate underbidders.

PSAtan · October 1, 2003 6:27AM

If someone bough it for 150K, they're going to make 300 to 400K when they put it up for auction in the next few months. This is a big card. I'm sure the Fogel/Branca type collectors are going to turn out for this one.

S.

samsammy23 · October 1, 2003 6:42AM

Am I really supposed to believe that this card went 48 years without ever being graded? This was an obvious resubmission or under the table deal. I'm sure it was one of those "high end" 9's that finally made it. A total crock.
Chad.

goodriddance189 · October 1, 2003 6:46AM

<< Am I really supposed to believe that this card went 48 years without ever being graded? This was an obvious resubmission or under the table deal. I'm sure it was one of those "high end" 9's that finally made it. A total crock.
Chad. >>

got any facts to back this up? didnt think so.

Basilone · October 1, 2003 6:53AM

I believe the person who owns it can afford to keep it for a long time. If the rumors are true...I do not seeing this card hitting the auction houses for quite a while.

John

mikeschmidt · October 1, 2003 7:04AM

<< I believe the person who owns it can afford to keep it for a long time. If the rumors are true...I do not seeing this card hitting the auction houses for quite a while.

John >>

The people in this hobby willing to spend six figures on a card are few and far between. The people in this hobby that are willing to spend six figures on a card in the hopes of flipping it are virtually non-existant.

interchanges · October 1, 2003 10:13AM

Wonder if the card used to be housed in a 9 holder and someone was in a gambling mood?

Davalillo · October 1, 2003 10:20AM

They are going to make 300-400,000 when the sell it in a few months????!!!! Are you serious!

$150,000 is a full price.

Sounds like the card that Dmitri Young would buy but I have no idea.

Basilone · October 1, 2003 10:25AM

I would be shocked to see that card available for public sale in the next 10-15 years.

Does anyone know how the submitter "stumbled" upon this 48 year old classic? IF..it is a brand new card to the hobby...just think about the sap who sold it....hopefully he does not read these boards....he might jump off a bridge.

John

PSAtan · October 1, 2003 11:38AM

Seems like an important card. There has to be a story out there. Also, who has one ungraded baseball card? It must be a regrade.

Will this show up on the registry at some point or do these sit in safes below the radar?

S.

GATOR5 · October 1, 2003 11:56AM

Guys,

Well after I saw the post and seems how the card is already sold. My brain started to spin so I just went through 20 or so cards before the clemente.

Here Go's

33 Ruth World Wide Ev of Trimming
52 Mantle Psa 5
53 Bowman Color Mantle psa 8
63 Maris 9
41 playball johnson 9
48 bowman rizutto 9
48 bowman ruth 8
couple 65's hockey i think 8's a 7 and a 5
64 clemente 9
41 playball williams 8
51 bowman lemon 10
51 bowman pollett 10

I stopped at that point going back to look some more. I wonder if you'll see these in the auction next month.

Gator

gemint · October 1, 2003 12:51PM

I don't think it's unheard of to have a high end card remain ungraded until today. Does anyone really believe that all the high end blue chip cards have already been graded? I still see alot of high grade vintage sets going through Mastro and other auction houses to this day. Often these sets are raw and the auction house submits the keys for grading before selling the set. I still find NM-MT or better star cards from the 50s in raw form. I'm not saying it wasn't resubmitted but I wouldn't be surprised if this is the first time it was ever submitted.

waitiltheytrytobuy · October 1, 2003 1:32PM

I kinda hate to rain on everyone's parade, but the author....I mean seller of this card is one of the hobby's biggest cardiologists. That's right, he's a card doctor extraordinaire. That 1933 World Wide Ruth that he submitted should have given the graders a preview of things to come.

samsammy23 · October 1, 2003 1:50PM

Gator,
Where did you get the sub. #?
Chad.

MyBigToe · October 1, 2003 4:34PM

<< I kinda hate to rain on everyone's parade, but the author....I mean seller of this card is one of the hobby's biggest cardiologists. That's right, he's a card doctor extraordinaire. That 1933 World Wide Ruth that he submitted should have given the graders a preview of things to come. >>

What a shock, another big dollar card that is altered and residing in a PSA holder.

wolfbear · October 1, 2003 7:22PM

MyBigTroll - thank you for yet another fact filled, unbiased post.

For the sake of all of us mindless sheep and ostriches,
please continue your efforts to make these boards,
and the world in general, for that matter, a better place.

How richly rewarding, and fulfilling, your life must be ...

gemint · October 1, 2003 10:40PM

<< 

<< I kinda hate to rain on everyone's parade, but the author....I mean seller of this card is one of the hobby's biggest cardiologists. That's right, he's a card doctor extraordinaire. That 1933 World Wide Ruth that he submitted should have given the graders a preview of things to come. >>

What a shock, another big dollar card that is altered and residing in a PSA holder. >>

So when did you have the opportunity to review that card and come to your expert opinion? Would you like someone to come on here and state they know for a fact every card you sell is altered?

waitiltheytrytobuy · October 1, 2003 11:13PM

gemint,

Forget I mentioned anything. Words directly from the dealer in question confirming numerous alterations on high dollar cards really doesn't mean much. I'm sure he was joking. And all the stories about his home "lab" are probably made up too. My apologies. You may now resume your normal programming.

aconte · October 1, 2003 11:15PM

<< don't think it's unheard of to have a high end card remain ungraded until today. Does anyone really believe that all the high end blue chip cards have already been graded? >>

I think these comments by gemint are very accurate. I can understand the apprehension by
everyone but we need to remember that a lot of high end cards are still not graded and won't
be for some time. It is something to think about!

Great post gemint. Surprised no one else chimed in yet on this...

aconte

packCollector · October 1, 2003 11:35PM

Is there any card in a PSA holder that is unaltered? Why is it that everytime a high dollar card comes up all the supposedly informed people know that the card was altered? what a f***ing joke. I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion but if all you "intelligent" people think that so many cards in PSA holders are altered and that the graders suck so bad and all you so called know it alls can tell the cards are altered but professional graders that have seen 100,000's of cards can't , then why the hell do you bother to buy PSA cards? why the hell do you bother to come to these boards? why do you waste our time with your existance? get a clue!! sorry to all your "real" collectors and posters out there. I am just sick of listening to these annonymous accusations that are usually have no basis , probably coming from the holders of the majority of trimmed cards that want to shoot down grading so they can get some poor sap to buy their trimmed crap

BobS · October 1, 2003 11:44PM

<< we need to remember that a lot of high end cards are still not graded and won't be for some time. >>

So true. We also must remember that some people actually COLLECT cards for themselves. If their collection goes up in value and a positive return is realized down the line, then great. But there are still collectors out there that are not interested is getting high grades on their cards to sell them for immediate profit.

I plan to hold the bulk of my collection for the next 20-25 years. What good does spending $10 to grade them now do me? None. Do I know if PSA/SGC/GAI will still be in business then? No. The only advantage to grading out the vintage gems in my collection would be for protection, and the toploaders and boxes I've been using for the last 15 years are doing just fine. I do however submit the cards that I know I will be selling short-term in an effort to realize a greater profit. If/when I do sell off the rest (20-25 years), that's when I'll have 'em graded (if grading still exists).

Also, I consider myself knowledgable enough (usually) to avoid buying altered raw cards. Are there some in my collection, I'm sure. I'll have to cross that bridge when I come to it. For the time being though, I always buy raw in person and if I have the money, graded on ebay.

My $0.02.

Cheers.

radiationguy · October 1, 2003 11:58PM

I think people assume that all the great cards have been graded and that is just absurd. I bought a 1953 Bowman Color set a month ago that was raw. I looked at a 1952 Bowman set last week that was raw, and I got a call from a man last night that has 2 1948 Bowman sets, 2 1949 Bowman sets, 1 1952 Bowman set all in high grade and all ungraded. I also know a doctor in town that has a complete Topps run of high grade sets, all ungraded. He also has a run of Red Man, Cracker Jack, and Goudey cards that are amazing. There are plenty of high grade cards that are not being graded. Someone gets a 10 on a 1955 card and it had to be trimmed, altered, or doctored. There are plenty of people out there that still have raw cards. They are not altered. They just don't have a plastic home yet.

Billy

schr1st · October 2, 2003 12:01AM

Saucer of milk for you?

<< gemint,

Forget I mentioned anything. Words directly from the dealer in question confirming numerous alterations on high dollar cards really doesn't mean much. I'm sure he was joking. And all the stories about his home "lab" are probably made up too. My apologies. You may now resume your normal programming. >>

dude · October 2, 2003 12:07AM

Of course there is still lots of ungraded high-end vintage material around. Just look at how many unopened packs, boxes and cases are still showing up on eBay and Mastro.

waitiltheytrytobuy · October 2, 2003 1:02AM

Hmmmm....isn't it strange how this one dealer always comes up with all the high dollar PSA 10 cards? The first PSA 10 1952 Mickey Mantle. The first PSA 10 1955 Topps Roberto Clemente. And he rarely advertises. I guess some people are just better at repairing....I mean finding cards than others.

mikeschmidt · October 2, 2003 1:09AM

mikeschmidt · October 2, 2003 1:11AM

<< Hmmmm....isn't it strange how this one dealer always comes up with all the high dollar PSA 10 cards? The first PSA 10 1952 Mickey Mantle. The first PSA 10 1955 Topps Roberto Clemente. And he rarely advertises. I guess some people are just better at repairing....I mean finding cards than others. >>

So does that mean if there is a dealer out there who consistently gets vintage cards into SGC 92 and 96 holders that sell for into the five figures, that we should also question how they repair....er, I mean find those cards?

rw2win · October 2, 2003 1:41AM

Forgive my stupidity, can I ask who this dealer is?

thejam · October 2, 2003 6:37AM

what if a guy doctored a 52 mantle and got a 10; could he then threaten PSA to give him more 10s or a ton of money or he will publicize the fact that he doctored a mantle and it wasn't caught by PSA? Why did I say this?

EOMINT · October 2, 2003 7:41AM

Tons of conspiracy theorists here...tell me now, is Area 51 really a govt. controlled UFO project? I heard the dealer who sold the Clemente works for Fox Mulder and that this is all part of an esoteric X-File that will ultimately result in little green men controlling the earth...what a friggin joke. None of this crap helps the hobby and I can only construe that these scare tactics are being used by people with the intent to debase PSA's credibility....you people are no more respectable than those who plaster stock message boards with phony buyout rumors and fake press releases.

I for one think that this card being graded is awesome, and I hope that the buyer of the card enjoys it immensely (and finds his way to a team that doesnt finish in the cellar every year).

EO

thejam · October 2, 2003 7:48AM

that is absurd eomint ... little green men control Mars and will never control Earth

Boopotts · October 2, 2003 8:22AM

rw2win-

No, apparently you cannot ask that. I don't know why the participants of this thread are refusing to disclose the identities of the alleged participants of this transaction, but I've noticed that this practice appears to be a standard M.O. on these boards.

Basilone · October 2, 2003 8:25AM

<< I don't know why the participants of this thread are refusing to disclose the identities of the alleged participants of this transaction >>

Read the posts again......from the beginning.

John

Basilone · October 2, 2003 8:28AM

<< I don't know why the participants of this thread are refusing to disclose the identities of the alleged participants of this transaction >>

I don't know why some participants on this thread refuse to disclose their OWN identity.

JOhn

schr1st · October 2, 2003 9:17AM

No kidding. Outside of you and a couple of other people here (and the people who did the "who are you and what do you do posts a couple of weeks ago), almost everyone else holds their ID's closer to their chest than the guys in "World Series of Poker".

<< 

<< I don't know why the participants of this thread are refusing to disclose the identities of the alleged participants of this transaction >>

I don't know why some participants on this thread refuse to disclose their OWN identity.

JOhn >>

itsawonderfullife · October 3, 2003 1:46PM

Ah! Let's ignore the fact that we don't even know if the trimmed card that was submitted 20 cards ahead of the Clemente was even submitted by the same dealer and let's also ignore the fact the when a grading company with a buy back policy assigns the highest possible grade to a card that is now worth $100,000+ that they will give that card more scrutiny than a Colombian drug lord going through U.S. Customs with a full body cavity search.

I'm a sentimental fool and it's not every day that I get to witness an old fashioned lynch mob led by MyBigToe, samsammy23, thejam and waitiltheytrytobuy with their torches lit, chasing this hapless schmuck across the countryside, waving their pitchforks and axes in the air. Sadly, it looks like gang rape and plundering has suddenly become fashionable around here.

To answer EOMINT's question, yes, Area 51 really is a government controlled UFO project. I learned this recently when I was abducted by aliens.

But don't ever forget my friends: It's a wonderful life!

Vargha · October 3, 2003 1:54PM

Great! Another alias . . . just what we need. "I only post under the alias of "Vargha" because someone had already taken "Elvis" as a username.

MyBigToe · October 3, 2003 2:03PM

<< I'm a sentimental fool and it's not every day that I get to witness an old fashioned lynch mob led by MyBigToe, samsammy23, thejam and waitiltheytrytobuy with their torches lit, chasing this hapless schmuck across the countryside, waving their pitchforks and axes in the air. Sadly, it looks like gang rape and plundering has suddenly become fashionable around here.
>>

Get the players straight, you twit. I made a one sentence post on this thread. If I had the information that waitiltheytrytobuy obviously has, maybe I would have posted more.

RobE · October 3, 2003 2:18PM

<< Area 51 really is a government controlled UFO project. I learned this recently when I was abducted by aliens.

But don't ever forget my friends: It's a wonderful life! >>

Area 51 is NOT Govenrment controlled agency.
The Government is not even allowed in the facility.
Nobody even knows what agency it is but they are more
powerful than the government and military.

Speak to Donald Emory at the Area 51 research center donaldemory@hotmail.com for further details.

1955 Topps Roberto Clemente PSA 10

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