Thank you for finding the Q&A link. It looks like my recollection of what David Hall said was correct.
Mitch:
Some great prose there. Again, I find myself in the uncomfortable position of agreeing with you. Not only that, but with odds I am willing to bet on you in your chess match with Dragon
Let me ask you this. Do you think the current weakness in FBL Franklins (except for the top pop ones) is due to a realization on the part of collectors that they might have been had by the FBL phenomena? For example, an average 52S in 65FBL is priced at about $1,000. A beautiful MS66 with almost full bell lines can be had for about $300. If collectors start seeing the MS66 as the better coin, will the price of the 65FBL drop dramatically? Perhaps even below the MS66 price?
Lucy:
I notice you are selling many of your Franklins. Is the reason in part, because you no longer believe in the FBL mystique?
Credit where credit is due. I bought a magnificent 52S in PCGS MS66 recently from Lucy for a very reasonable price. And to think, I could have bought an ugly 52-S in 65FBL anywhere for only about 3x the price.
Lucy:
Do you have a picture of the 52S that you can post.
Alan, that wasn't the point I was making at all. The point is you can glance at a Washington and tell if it is Cameo. You can't glance at a frankie or merc to see if the lines are full, unless you have Lucy's eagle eye. So at least a Cameo designation makes sense, whether or not it is more valuable than a higher grade non cameo is another issue. Kapish?
"Let me ask you this. Do you think the current weakness in FBL Franklins (except for the top pop ones) is due to a realization on the part of collectors that they might have been had by the FBL phenomena? For example, an average 52S in 65FBL is priced at about $1,000. A beautiful MS66 with almost full bell lines can be had for about $300. If collectors start seeing the MS66 as the better coin, will the price of the 65FBL drop dramatically? Perhaps even below the MS66 price?"
NO. I believe the current weakness is due simply to supply outstriping demand at this time. Remember, a number of very serious MS Franklin collectors have quit in the past 90-120 days and they have been selling off their collections. Compound that by the fact that MANY cool coins have been made recently by dealers or "investors" and they desire to SELL them, not hold them. I believe we will need to see an influx of new serious Franklin collectors over the next 6-12 months or prices will continue to fall in the short run. Let's face it - the "serious" Franklin guys have very MATURE collections right now. And, while many enjoys picking up a few doubles - triples and then some are not in the cards for many of these collectors. In the last Heritage sale there were (3) 1953(d) Franklins (I believe it was that date - it was one of the tough "d" mint dates) in PCGS-MS66FBL - one lot after another! How could the price be anything other than weak when the few bidders could split their bids between (3) coins. Incidently, the same thing occured with Wash quarters in the prior auctions where, for example, (3) 1940(d) Quarters in PCGS-MS67 came up, back to back to back in the same Heritage sale. I BELIEVE SUPPLY IS SIMPLY OUTSTRIPING DEMAND RIGHT NOW IN THE CASE OF FRANKLIN HALF DOLLARS.
Wondercoin
P.S. If you disagree with me and believe the market is "on fire" - that's fine. In fact, please PM me as I easily can get you $100k worth of Franklins I can sell instantly at very competitive prices.
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
The 52-S in 65FBL that you have for sale is quite nice. However, there are a number of $900+ offerings on the market that don't look as nice.
So no slappy for me!!!!
Mitch:
Good points about why prices are declining. However, one needs to ask why major Franklin collectors are selling now. I for one sold a very high end set about three years ago, almost exclusively because I stoped believing in the FBL mystique. Maybe today's sellers have the same motivation. Of course, the fact that dealers are making many new pieces must also be a factor. Are hoards still out there?
Typetone said: "However, the bottom line is if all this is true, I blame us as collectors. We are the ones who buy and sell. The initial FBL designations were done before the registry was any big deal. If we are willing to pay more for 65FBLs that are inferior to beautiful 66s, then we get what we deserve. "
Ohhh Nooo, not me!! Virtually all the FBL's in my set (White Tornado Franklins) were made by me from raw coins with only two or three exceptions. I refuse to pay big bucks for FBL's.
So I am a VICTIM of this phenomenon!!
"Wars are really ugly! They're dirty and they're cold. I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole." Mary
"but Im still "emotional" about pr70 coins getting fewer points than pr69dcams"
Alan,
Perhaps it has to do with (for some issues) the DCAM designation being MUCH rarer than a red (if copper e.g.) - i.e. a pre-1959 incoln. Perhaps for some other more modern coins it may be viewed as NOT having a DCAM finish might be viewed as "having something missing" - for say, a 1995-S Lincoln. Just IMHO
Comments
So that was you who valeted my car the other night and opened my glovebox!!!
Wondercoin
Here is the post on the Q&A forum you were talking about. I remember reading it and the other post that DH replied about the FS on 5c coins. Makes for some interesting thought.
BTW, The Q&A threads are still there, but drop off and can only be found by searching key words and author
Ken
My Washington Type B/C Set
Thank you for finding the Q&A link. It looks like my recollection of what David Hall said was correct.
Mitch:
Some great prose there. Again, I find myself in the uncomfortable position of agreeing with you
Let me ask you this. Do you think the current weakness in FBL Franklins (except for the top pop ones) is due to a realization on the part of collectors that they might have been had by the FBL phenomena? For example, an average 52S in 65FBL is priced at about $1,000. A beautiful MS66 with almost full bell lines can be had for about $300. If collectors start seeing the MS66 as the better coin, will the price of the 65FBL drop dramatically? Perhaps even below the MS66 price?
Lucy:
I notice you are selling many of your Franklins. Is the reason in part, because you no longer believe in the FBL mystique?
Greg
I loved my Frankies, and simply decided to move on, I built a nice set with 100%FBL, now, its time to go after the Winged Libertys...
I am still keeping some Franklins, I am not selling my Proofs, but I will have many more Mint State coins available as I have many in for grading.....
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
Hmmm... I have it covered for the '52-S and '53-S, I have each in 66 (beautifully toned; no FBL), and 65FBL.
Congrats on having the 53-S in 65FBL.
Credit where credit is due. I bought a magnificent 52S in PCGS MS66 recently from Lucy for a very reasonable price. And to think, I could have bought an ugly 52-S in 65FBL anywhere for only about 3x the price.
Lucy:
Do you have a picture of the 52S that you can post.
Cheers
Greg
PCGs ms66
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
SLAP!
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
I just realized that I sold my '52-S in 66 after all- I had thought that I kept that one. I do still have the '53-S in both 65FBL and 66.
BTW, I like your '52-S- very nice toning!
Greg
NO. I believe the current weakness is due simply to supply outstriping demand at this time. Remember, a number of very serious MS Franklin collectors have quit in the past 90-120 days and they have been selling off their collections. Compound that by the fact that MANY cool coins have been made recently by dealers or "investors" and they desire to SELL them, not hold them. I believe we will need to see an influx of new serious Franklin collectors over the next 6-12 months or prices will continue to fall in the short run. Let's face it - the "serious" Franklin guys have very MATURE collections right now. And, while many enjoys picking up a few doubles - triples and then some are not in the cards for many of these collectors. In the last Heritage sale there were (3) 1953(d) Franklins (I believe it was that date - it was one of the tough "d" mint dates) in PCGS-MS66FBL - one lot after another! How could the price be anything other than weak when the few bidders could split their bids between (3) coins. Incidently, the same thing occured with Wash quarters in the prior auctions where, for example, (3) 1940(d) Quarters in PCGS-MS67 came up, back to back to back in the same Heritage sale. I BELIEVE SUPPLY IS SIMPLY OUTSTRIPING DEMAND RIGHT NOW IN THE CASE OF FRANKLIN HALF DOLLARS.
Wondercoin
P.S. If you disagree with me and believe the market is "on fire" - that's fine. In fact, please PM me as I easily can get you $100k worth of Franklins I can sell instantly at very competitive prices.
The 52-S in 65FBL that you have for sale is quite nice. However, there are a number of $900+ offerings on the market that don't look as nice.
So no slappy for me!!!!
Mitch:
Good points about why prices are declining. However, one needs to ask why major Franklin collectors are selling now. I for one sold a very high end set about three years ago, almost exclusively because I stoped believing in the FBL mystique. Maybe today's sellers have the same motivation. Of course, the fact that dealers are making many new pieces must also be a factor. Are hoards still out there?
Greg
<< <i>The 52-S in 65FBL that you have for sale is quite nice. >>
Smooch!
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
Ohhh Nooo, not me!! Virtually all the FBL's in my set (White Tornado Franklins) were made by me from raw coins with only two or three exceptions. I refuse to pay big bucks for FBL's.
So I am a VICTIM of this phenomenon!!
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
www.AlanBestBuys.com
www.VegasBestBuys.com
Alan,
Perhaps it has to do with (for some issues) the DCAM designation being MUCH rarer than a red (if copper e.g.) - i.e. a pre-1959 incoln. Perhaps for some other more modern coins it may be viewed as NOT having a DCAM finish might be viewed as "having something missing" - for say, a 1995-S Lincoln. Just IMHO
www.AlanBestBuys.com
www.VegasBestBuys.com