Need Forum Members' Advise-Should I Pursue This Or Let It Drop-Caution; Contains Dirty Laundry!

ClausUrch

Here is an e-mail trail of a transaction I recently completed. Member thoughts would be appreciated and you can PM me if you would rather than reply to this thread. FYI...A postal employee signed for this package from Japan on the 17th but the "pink slip" was not put in my box until later and the actual package was not picked up by me until the 22nd. I contacted the Seller as soon as I opened the package.

I am the winner of the referenced auction and wish to return the coin as per your return policy. The coin has definitely "turned" in the holder and will not upgrade my current MS69 which looks much better than the MS70 I purchased from you. Please advise as to how to go about returning the coin to you and refunding my PayPal account. Thanking you in advance...

Claus Urch
--------------------


Question from: c.urch
Title of item: 1995-W $5 Gold Torch Runner Commem PCGS MS70!
Seller: mpccoin
Starts: Aug-29-03 20:30:35 PDT
Ends: Sep-08-03 20:30:35 PDT
Price: Currently $601.00
To view the item, go to: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3044160056


I will have to consider this matter carefully and get back to you. I just
returned from the Long Beach show a few hours ago. My first inclination is
NO.

My return policy DOES NOT always cover GOLD, or slabbed coins from PCGS or
NGC. And especially on coins that are volatile in price, and MS70 coins are
definitely that! I think you can see why.

Also I will have to check and see when you received this coin and how long
you have had it, i.e., have you shopped it around, etc.,
etc.,................

Remember I do not run coins for APPROVAL but like to make sure people are
happy with their purchases and items are as described. And I think this is
fair.


======================
MPCCOIN
======================
Michael L. Cummings
2270 Griffin Road #433
Lakeland, FL 33810-5565
FAX & VOICE MAIL: 1-678-623-3953
======================
Michael L. Cummings
Okachimachi Green Heights #603
Taito-ku Ueno 6-1-6
Tokyo, JAPAN 110-0005
TEL: 81-90-4019-5148
======================
eBay User ID: mpccoin
======================
American Numismatic Association Life Member #1277
Florida United Numismatists Life Member #267
Central States Numismatic Society Life Member #233


Michael:
I can appreciate you not running an approval service and I definitely did
not purchase the coin to do so, but I make a habit of not bidding on coins
where a Seller does not have a clear refund policy such as yourself. I saw
it on E-Bay and for the price of 601$, my max bid, thought I would upgrade
my MS69 if it would go for that price. The coin, as it is in the holder, is
NOT even close to MS70 as I'm certain you would agree. My current MS69 is
closer to MS70 than the coin I received at my Post Office this morning and I
will be keeping the MS69 in my collection until I can find a nicer one. I
had and have no desire to "shop the coin around" as I am first and foremost
a collector trying to upgrade a set. Sometimes the second place bidder is
in the position for a "Second Chance Offer". His bid was 600$. I'm not
trying to tell you your business but you might approach him with an offer.
I look forward to your prompt responce.

Claus Urch

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Cummings" <mpccoin@hotmail.com>
To: <ugunter@earthlink.net>
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 2:26 PM
Subject: Re: Question for seller -- Item #3044160056


> I will have to consider this matter carefully and get back to you. I just
> returned from the Long Beach show a few hours ago. My first inclination is
> NO.
>
> My return policy DOES NOT always cover GOLD, or slabbed coins from PCGS or
> NGC. And especially on coins that are volatile in price, and MS70 coins
are
> definitely that! I think you can see why.
>
> Also I will have to check and see when you received this coin and how long
> you have had it, i.e., have you shopped it around, etc.,
> etc.,................
>
> Remember I do not run coins for APPROVAL but like to make sure people are
> happy with their purchases and items are as described. And I think this is
> fair.
>
>
> ======================
> MPCCOIN
> ======================
> Michael L. Cummings
> 2270 Griffin Road #433
> Lakeland, FL 33810-5565
> FAX & VOICE MAIL: 1-678-623-3953
> ======================
> Michael L. Cummings
> Okachimachi Green Heights #603
> Taito-ku Ueno 6-1-6
> Tokyo, JAPAN 110-0005
> TEL: 81-90-4019-5148
> ======================
> eBay User ID: mpccoin
> ======================
> American Numismatic Association Life Member #1277
> Florida United Numismatists Life Member #267
> Central States Numismatic Society Life Member #233


When did you receive my coin? That is important to me. I can check on line
but as I told you I just got back from Long Beach and am swamped.

"Second Chance Offer" seldom works............. as bidders think it is
tainted!

Also I will be truthful with you, this ULTRA GRADE STUFF is whacky, I myself
have been dealing for over 30 years and cannot tell the difference between a
MS69 or MS70.

I just checked and see that the coin was delivered on Spetember 17th.

Thank you.


I live on the coast in North Carolina and Hurricane Isabell came through
last week. I do not check my PO Box everyday but the PO was definetly
closed from the 18th until this morning. Even though the "pink slip" for a
pacage pick-up may have been in my box on the 17th, the package was not
picked up from the counter by me until this morning.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Cummings" <mpccoin@hotmail.com>
To: <ugunter@earthlink.net>
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 3:19 PM
Subject: Re: Question for seller -- Item #3044160056


> When did you receive my coin? That is important to me. I can check on line
> but as I told you I just got back from Long Beach and am swamped.
>
> "Second Chance Offer" seldom works............. as bidders think it is
> tainted!
>
> Also I will be truthful with you, this ULTRA GRADE STUFF is whacky, I
myself
> have been dealing for over 30 years and cannot tell the difference between
a
> MS69 or MS70.
>
> I just checked and see that the coin was delivered on Spetember 17th.
>
> Thank you.


Dear Mr. Cummings:
Please contact me as to how I should go about returning the coin in question
to you for a refund to my PayPal account. I've attached the link to you
home page and direct your attention to "Our Policy" which clearly states
that you offer a no-questions-asked return policy if you are not satisfied
with your purchase. I am not satisfied and request a refund pursuant to
your Policy.
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mpccoin/

I also direct your attention to the following link with special attention to
the "Dealers Code of Ethics" which states, "To frequently publish my
statement of return privileges, which will allow my customers a designated
period of time in which to return numismatic material for a refund, except
bullion or bullion-related material may not be returned for a refund. Said
period of time shall not be less than fifteen (15) days from the recorded
date of receipt or other transmittal of said material or not less than ten
(10) days after my customer's receipt thereof or my attempted delivery
thereof to my customer, whichever time period shall be the earlier."
http://www.money.org/bylaws.html
http://www.money.org/mediationform.html

I look forward to the speedy resolution of this matter.
Claus Urch

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Cummings" <mpccoin@hotmail.com>
To: <ugunter@earthlink.net>
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 3:19 PM
Subject: Re: Question for seller -- Item #3044160056


> When did you receive my coin? That is important to me. I can check on line
> but as I told you I just got back from Long Beach and am swamped.
>
> "Second Chance Offer" seldom works............. as bidders think it is
> tainted!
>
> Also I will be truthful with you, this ULTRA GRADE STUFF is whacky, I
myself
> have been dealing for over 30 years and cannot tell the difference between
a
> MS69 or MS70.
>
> I just checked and see that the coin was delivered on Spetember 17th.
>
> Thank you.


Dear Sir,

I am sorry but I have decided NOT to allow this coin to be returned.

The main reason is that this is a professionally graded coin and therefore
sold as is. Had this been a raw coin we would not hesitate to issue a full
refund.

Furthermore the coin was adequately described and pictured. We do not offer
coins on an approval basis.

We note that you do a lot of buying and selling on eBay, and offer a
three-day return privilege for your auctions; you had our coin for at least
6 days before you wanted to return it.

We also feel that the volatility of the MS70 slabbed coin market is similar
to bullion related coins and is also a major factor in our decision.

You are a dealer and should abide by such reasoning. I hope you can
understand this,

Thank you.


======================
MPCCOIN
======================
Michael L. Cummings
2270 Griffin Road #433
Lakeland, FL 33810-5565
FAX & VOICE MAIL: 1-678-623-3953
======================
Michael L. Cummings
Okachimachi Green Heights #603
Taito-ku Ueno 6-1-6
Tokyo, JAPAN 110-0005
TEL: 81-90-4019-5148
======================
eBay User ID: mpccoin
======================
American Numismatic Association Life Member #1277
Florida United Numismatists Life Member #267
Central States Numismatic Society Life Member #233


I'm sorry to hear you will not be honoring your return policy or abiding by
the "Code of Ethics" and Bylaws of the ANA; of which you are a member. I
will be initiating a Mediation Services Complaint Form and we will let ANA
sort it out.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Cummings" <mpccoin@hotmail.com>
To: <ugunter@earthlink.net>
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 5:36 PM
Subject: Re: Question for seller -- Item #3044160056


> Dear Sir,
>
> I am sorry but I have decided NOT to allow this coin to be returned.
>
> The main reason is that this is a professionally graded coin and therefore
> sold as is. Had this been a raw coin we would not hesitate to issue a full
> refund.
>
> Furthermore the coin was adequately described and pictured. We do not
offer
> coins on an approval basis.
>
> We note that you do a lot of buying and selling on eBay, and offer a
> three-day return privilege for your auctions; you had our coin for at
least
> 6 days before you wanted to return it.
>
> We also feel that the volatility of the MS70 slabbed coin market is
similar
> to bullion related coins and is also a major factor in our decision.
>
> You are a dealer and should abide by such reasoning. I hope you can
> understand this,
>
> Thank you.
>
>
> ======================
> MPCCOIN
> ======================
> Michael L. Cummings
> 2270 Griffin Road #433
> Lakeland, FL 33810-5565
> FAX & VOICE MAIL: 1-678-623-3953
> ======================
> Michael L. Cummings
> Okachimachi Green Heights #603
> Taito-ku Ueno 6-1-6
> Tokyo, JAPAN 110-0005
> TEL: 81-90-4019-5148


Feel free to contact anyone you like, I am sure they will see our point.

You as a dealer should know and understand why this transaction does not
fall under any return guaranteed policy.

Thank you.

======================
MPCCOIN
======================
Michael L. Cummings
2270 Griffin Road #433
Lakeland, FL 33810-5565
FAX & VOICE MAIL: 1-678-623-3953
======================
Michael L. Cummings
Okachimachi Green Heights #603
Taito-ku Ueno 6-1-6
Tokyo, JAPAN 110-0005
TEL: 81-90-4019-5148
======================
eBay User ID: mpccoin
======================
American Numismatic Association Life Member #1277
Florida United Numismatists Life Member #267
Central States Numismatic Society Life Member #233

Michael:
I'm certain they will not see your point. Just because I buy and sell on
E-Bay for the enjoyment of the hobby and to add to my collection in no way
makes me even close to being a dealer. Am I to understand that anyone who
sells or has ever sold a coin on E-Bay is a dealer?? That is silly. I'm an
electrician by trade which is how I support my family and a coin collector
by passion because I enjoy collecting coins. I don't understand how you can
classify me as a "dealer" and use this as your only premise to renig on your
return policy. I picked the coin up on Monday the 22nd and contacted you as
soon as I realized the coin "turned" in the holder and I had purchased your
"problem coin". You should have described the "butt ugly" toning on both
the obverse and reverse in your description of the coin, or at least
submitted better pictures or scans showing the coin as it really is, but you
were more interested in re-couping your initial investment rather than doing
the right thing; nothing more...nothing less...plain greediness.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Cummings" <mpccoin@hotmail.com>
To: <ugunter@earthlink.net>
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 5:53 PM
Subject: Re: Question for seller -- Item #3044160056


> Feel free to contact anyone you like, I am sure they will see our point.
>
> You as a dealer should know and understand why this transaction does not
> fall under any return guaranteed policy.
>
> Thank you.
>
> ======================
> MPCCOIN
> ======================
> Michael L. Cummings
> 2270 Griffin Road #433
> Lakeland, FL 33810-5565
> FAX & VOICE MAIL: 1-678-623-3953
> ======================
> Michael L. Cummings
> Okachimachi Green Heights #603
> Taito-ku Ueno 6-1-6
> Tokyo, JAPAN 110-0005
> TEL: 81-90-4019-5148
> ======================
> eBay User ID: mpccoin
> ======================
> American Numismatic Association Life Member #1277
> Florida United Numismatists Life Member #267
> Central States Numismatic Society Life Member #233

Hey...I'm a dealer!!!! Far out!!!!
That's it so far.

goose3

I'd be a royal pain in the arse for the guy myself, but hey I'm a real PR***.

File a complaint with the ANA. I believe that member number in those emails was his?

JJacks

Hmm.

The key to me is that on his ebay page it says:

We guarantee all items we sell to be genuine and offer a no-questions-asked return policy if you are not satisfied with your purchase.

It doesn't say anything about this not holding true for 3rd party graded coins! I would quote this line to him direct, and ask where the fact that the coin was professionally graded voided the return policy. I don't understand how he can mention that you only have a 3 day return policy in your auctions - What the hell does that have to do with his return policy???

If he has a "no-questions-asked return policy", you should send another email stating you have decided to return the coin and are tired of messing around, and where is your money. If he didn't want to allow returns without questions, he didn't have to. You could also mention that the fact that he supposidly had a good return policy may have been one of the reasons you bought the coin in the first place. I am on your side in this issue and good luck!

JJacks

goose3

how did you pay?
paypal?
credit card?

file complaints with them.
file with ebay.

RYK

Pursue it and send the "not nice" seller a link to this thread showing him that a number of other collectors are behind you and will never bid on one of his auctions again if he fails to do the right thing.

Robert

291fifth

This doesn't belong on the forum.

ClausUrch

<< <i>This doesn't belong on the forum. >>



OPPPS...I forgot to post a picture of a Frankie!!!

roadrunner

Don't give up on this dirtbag of a dealer. Hound him until it hurts.

For what's it worth I looked at the coin in question and it's pretty obvious to me there is a nice brown stain on the upper 1/8 th of the obverse. At least I wouldn't have paid strong money w/o the seller assuring me said stain was in my imagination. In the end no one wins here. This guy is gonna neg you.....and you him. But he is 100% wrong with his willy nilly which way is the wind blowing return policy. Typical ebay crock.

roadrunner

segoja

This does belong here. It's a big benefit to know who is fair and who is not! This will certainly steer me away from this seller.

In this case, the seller seems to have a published policy which Claus clearly counted on when he bought the coin.

Claus is in the right to return the coin.

As another member said, point the seller to this link.

How about downgrading the coin? I know it's hard to do. I have a coin taht is overgraded by 3 grades and have sent it for downgrade twice, but they won;t do it. It's a $5,000 hit for them. One grade down is a $4500 hit.

coinguy1

I feel that a coin which has "turned in the holder" and is clearly not correctly graded (I don't know if such is the case or not) is something which should be addressed by PCGS.

However, on principle, I would feel fine returning the coin to the seller, based on his stated return policy.

291fifth

I don't collect Franklins. I appreciate your plight as I have just gone thru two such problems myself.

kranky

The guy's return policy is as clear as could be - "BID WITH CONFIDENCE: We guarantee all items we sell to be genuine and offer a no-questions-asked return policy if you are not satisfied with your purchase."

I can't understand why he's being so obstinate or trying to invent loopholes in the above-quoted policy. I would contact him once more and say something like this:

"As I stated previously, I am careful to make sure that a clear return policy is stated before I bid on a coin. Your policy does not exclude slabbed coins, nor did your auction for this coin include any disclaimer that your standard return policy would not apply. In accordance with your policy, as well as the ANA Dealer Code of Ethics, I wish to return this coin for a refund.

If we can bring this transaction to a speedy conclusion, I don't see a need to leave negative feedback nor pursue mediation with the ANA.

I am simply asking you to live up to your stated return privilege as I am not satisfied with the coin. This is the policy that you offered to me as a buyer, as well as the policy which ANA dealers have pledged to adhere to. Please let me know where you would like me to ship it. "

ClausUrch

New e-mail just in.....Kranky...am I being Fussy???

Anyway, I am sorry but feel that your request to return a coin graded by
PCGS is unfounded. Also this was very recently graded (new-holder) by PCGS.

I also reviewed the scans and they clearly show the toning on the coin. And
we seriously doubt that the coin is "butt ugly" as you say, or PCGS would
not have slabbed it MS70. I think you are being fussy.

I do not want to get the dictionary out, but yes, you are, rather you
realize it or not, a DEALER!
Just because you have another job doesn't mean you are not. You are
certainly in this for more than a hobby................................

I do not wish to further argue these points as it is useless.

And I did not renege on my return policy.

Now you are resorting to acusatory language and calling me greedy.

Sincerely,

MPCCOIN



======================
MPCCOIN
======================
Michael L. Cummings
2270 Griffin Road #433
Lakeland, FL 33810-5565
FAX & VOICE MAIL: 1-678-623-3953
======================
Michael L. Cummings
Okachimachi Green Heights #603
Taito-ku Ueno 6-1-6
Tokyo, JAPAN 110-0005
TEL: 81-90-4019-5148
======================
eBay User ID: mpccoin
======================
American Numismatic Association Life Member #1277
Florida United Numismatists Life Member #267
Central States Numismatic Society Life Member #233

LucyBop

<< <i>OPPPS...I forgot to post a picture of a Frankie!!! >>



I feel better.....

coinlieutenant

Your first mistake is buying a MS70 coin for a tremendous price...

That being said, you should be allowed to return the coin and I hope that the ANA makes it right or he does the right thing and refunds your money.

coinlt

robertpr

Bait & Switch, pure and simple. If the seller does not adhere to his advertised return policy, I believe you have the right (and responsibility) to get the postal inspectors involved with this one and let them shut down this scumbag. Seriously, people like this need to be put behind bars. If someone attempted to do something like you're alleging that this seller did, and they had a physical storefront, how long do you think they would stay in business (or out of jail)?

coinguy1

Claus,

For now, at least, there is no need to argue about whether (edited to add: either you or) the seller is a dealer or not or about whether you are fussy or not. The bottom line is that you are choosing to return the coin under the clearly stated return policy of the seller, period. End of story!

I was taught, early on in law school, something to the effect of - go with your best/strongest argument/point and don't throw out a weaker one which might give the opposition something they might be able to legitimately argue about.

boiler78

Claus- I would give Krankys method a try first and if that doesn't resolve the situation proceed directly to the ANA with your complaint. The guy is being very short sighted. The negative PR from this thread alone will probably cost him more than $601!

Good luck!
Mark

Russ

Claus,

His stated return policy leaves him no wiggle room. You are clearly in the right on this one. Nail his ass.

Now, that said, the images do indicate that the coin has suffered some blight, so I have to wonder why you bid on it?

Russ, NCNE

Coinosaurus

There's always two sides to every story. I would prefer to have the dealer posting here as well. Though, based on the information provided so far, I would probably not want to do business with this guy.

ClausUrch

<< <i>Now, that said, the images do indicate that the coin has suffered some blight, so I have to wonder why you bid on it? >>



I guess I gave the "holder" the benefit of the doubt, it being an MS70, and did not scrutinize the image as thorough as I should have.

rd5425

Well since it is in a pcgs holder your best bet is probably just to get rid of it on ebay, and find yourself a better one, and make sure you state no returns in your auction

zenny

Simple solution

YO, FANOFMODERNS, Here's a nice, low pop PCGS graded coin which is perfect, why don't you just look up the price on the CU price guide, send Claus a check, and you'll have a perfectly graded, PCGS coin.

lathmach

I don't understand what PGGS guarantees.
The coin "turned" in the holder? That means something was wrong when it was encapsulated. Residue from a dip or something. Why won't PCGS then make good on it. You should send all these e-mails with the coin to PCGS and see what they say. They well make things right with you.
If they won't make this right with you, you then can let us all know about it.

Ray

Russ

<< <i>Why won't PCGS then make good on it. >>



PCGS would make good on it. That's not the issue of this thread, though. The issue is that Claus placed a bid based on a clearly stated "no questions asked" return policy and now the seller has decided to refuse to honor that policy.

If push comes to shove, Claus still has the option of availing himself of the PCGS guarantee.

Russ, NCNE

ElectricEye

file a report with the ANA ~ submit the coin under the grade guarantee if that fails...

ldhair

I would think you could file a report with Ebay, Paypal and the others he so kindly gave you

American Numismatic Association Life Member #1277
Florida United Numismatists Life Member #267
Central States Numismatic Society Life Member #233

Don't feel you got a fair deal here.

Hope it works out for you.

mozeppa

<< <i>Claus,

His stated return policy leaves him no wiggle room. You are clearly in the right on this one. Nail his ass.



ass nailing...kinky....iszat legal in japan?

Newmismatist

Claus

A very unfortunate incident - Have you checked w/ebay - if this guy has a stated NQA return policy, ebay may force him to honor his return policy, or boot him off ebay. Definately pursue filing a complaint w/ANA - maybe he should be expelled from ANA - at least then he can't put on his ads that he's an ANA member.

Now - keep all this in perspective - its $601 waht's the value of the next lower grade? that's your potential downside - maybe its minimal, I don't know because I'm not even sure what this coin is - is it one of the US Mint bullion commerative gold coins?

Keep one thing in mind: If you send back the coin & he doesn't refund your money, you'll then but w/o the money and w/o the coin, so there's still the possibility that this could get even worse.

Finally, there may be a very inexpensive lesson here - be careful about basing your decision to buy a coin based on someone else's opinion as to what it is - If you care to read further on this last item see the hypothetical Lincoln Memorial Proof set that you could have bought over the past year for abot $141K almost all top pop coins - suppose they were all over-graded by a point or 2? The answer's in that thread also, same coins at the next lower grade - about $1,300 - (less than 1% of what was paid for top pops)

thread linky

So this $601 coin may be the absolute best evidence that you have to buy the coin, not what the paper insert says.

You've got 4 ways to go: Ebay complaint / ANA complaint / PCGS grade guarantee / Small claims lawsuit - (but unfortunately in Florida)

Or sell the coin & chalk the difference up to a grading / slab grading lesson
Good Luck

Placid

File a complaint with paypal they will probably freeze his paypal account.
If you used a credit card with paypal then call your credit card company and tell them the problem.

Trooper

You might want to print out his web pages before he changes his "return policy" on his "me" page. This way at least you have some type of record about it.
Tom

Bochiman

Claus,

If you don't mind, I will chime in with my thoughts on this...

1st....thank you for posting this. I don't see myself buying from this guy in the future. A "no questions asked" policy should be just that. It is a 3rd party graded coin and that was not explicitly excluded from the return policy

2nd....he must feel that he got the best he could for the coin. he is attacking you on a few fronts to keep you with the coin. If he was worth his salt to buy from, he would refund all but the s&h if he felt you didn't deserve the return.

3rd....if he claims to be ANA member (I am not one) I believe there is a code of ethics, or something similar) that people say they will abide by...correct? Arbitration otherwise? I would definitely report him.

4th....you paid by paypal didn't you? contest it. Don't they freeze the amount/account if it is contested? And, as others have said, if you used a credit card, look into contesting.

5th...it sounds like PCGS screwed up if the coin pictured was the one received and it doesn't meet MS70. That being the case, HE should be contesting it with PCGS, not you.

Look into contesting with Paypal/eBay.....get your answer in 1-2 days hopefully.
Tell him he has 3-5 days to agree to take the coin back and refund your money based on his guarantee. Doesn't matter that he called you a dealer. Selling coins doesn't make you a dealer (unless that is what you do and you file taxes for profits/losses on it). Draft a letter to the ANA and the others.

I wonder if he lives/sells in japan or florida most of the time. he lists both and you say it came from Japan. Shouldn't matter, but it does make me wonder...almost like he tries to give himself an "out" in situations.

As for wanting to hear both sides...unlike most of the ones posted here that give 1 side, I think that, as long as it has been complete, that both sides have been told since the emails appear not to be editted. If they were editted, I am wrong. Otherwise, from what i have seen "from the sellers own words" is that I wouldn't trust him and I wouldn't let my friends by from him. But, that may just be me

Bugs

First and foremost, I think Coinguy gave you some of the best advice:



<< <i>For now, at least, there is no need to argue about whether the seller is a dealer or not or about whether you are fussy or not. The bottom line is that you are choosing to return the coin under the clearly stated return policy of the seller, period. End of story!

I was taught, early on in law school, something to the effect of go with your best/strongest argument/point and don't throw out a weaker one which might give the opposition something they might be able to legitimately argue about. >>



I would say...don't be distracted by unimportant, insignificant petty details that have NOTHING to do with the facts...keep it simple...don't name call...walk softly and BHA!

Best wishes,
*~Bugs*~

coindaughter

First, save the entire ebay ad.

Write one more email, again stating the facts (and I agree, leave out the name-calling--it makes you look desperate). Very clearly lay out the facts point by point. Then, tell him you will contact *all* the interested parties: ebay, paypal, ANA, FUN, CSA. Then do it, carbon copy him with the letter you send to the organizations. Send a real letter, if possible, not email.

You are in the right. He knows it. Good luck!

DCAMFranklin

Not the first Ebay seller that will hide behind Ebay's "auction" format to avoid problems with the ANA regarding not offering a refund privilege.

Clearly, a refund privilege was provided on the auction page and the seller is a weasel. You have a valid complaint and I would take it up with Ebay and Paypal. I hope you find a successful conclusion to this matter.

coinlieutenant

Go with your strongest argument like Mark said.

Guy sounds like a putz.

1jester

You're in the right and deserve a prompt refund.

puff

<< <i>Claus,

His stated return policy leaves him no wiggle room. You are clearly in the right on this one. Nail his ass.

Now, that said, the images do indicate that the coin has suffered some blight, so I have to wonder why you bid on it?

Russ, NCNE >>



It doesn't matter why Claus bid on the coin...... The seller had a "NO QUESTIONS ASKED" return policy and he should hononr it! Period end of story.

pontiacinf

IF PAID BY CREDIT CARD...charge back...heck with him



if not..CHALK TO EXPERIANCE AND BE DONE

redcents

He's obviously a TOTAL LOWLIFE! and reasoning won't work. As others have said, file the appropriate complaints with eBay, PayPal, ANA & the other numismatic organizations he's a member of, BBB, his State Attorney Generals office, Postal Inspectors, etc. Also pursue PCGS to make good on their guarantee as well. Sorry it has to be such a major hassle.

In the future you might want to take advantage of PayPal's guarantee program where you pay them a little extra on checkout and if you're not satisfied you simply send it to them for a full refund within 30 days of purchase (of receipt?).

Another thing is to be sure if someone posts a NQA return policy that it ALSO INCLUDES A SPECIFIC NUMBER OF DAYS THAT YOU HAVE - as his DIDN'T - or at least get an e-mail clarification of just how many days you do have to return it. Of course some would argue that if no timeframe is listed in the return policy then it is openended but you'd be hard-pressed to argue that 5 months from now you can still return it. I beleive this ommission by him, apparently (to me) TOTALLY calculated, allows him in his sick mind the wiggle room to claim you "waited too long".

Of course, you could just put it back on eBay with an ACCURATE description and GOOD pictures take whatever hit you get. Or better yet, just offer it to the underbidder BUT BE HONEST in your description. Maybe you'll only lose a couple of bucks. You might also consider leaving a negative if you can stand a retaliatory one (I NEVER leave megatives).

CarlWohlforth

Pursue, do not let it drop!

ScarsdaleCoin

dealer wrong, pcgs wrong, customer wrong....guess three wrongs make a right....
my 3c
I would sell the coin and move on....life is just too short to continue complaining about it....besides someone might just like a coin with "BUT"
butt ugly toning

and I think we have a new description in the coin biz
"BUT"
good luck
try to make lemonaide out of this lemon!

gemtone65

I wonder if Claus could have used the leverage of this forum to obtain a better result. For example, he could have suggested to the dealer that the details of the dispute be posted without the dealer's name, and offered the dealer the option to rely on the consensus of members' responses to resolve the dispute. If the dealer turned that offer down, Claus might have said that he was going ahead with his suggestion anyway, this time including the delaer's name, however, he would delay that action for a day should the dealer have a change of heart.

Moreover, even at this stage it would appear to be a good strategy for Claus, assuming all is lost with the dealer anyway, to alert him to this thread. It wouldn't be the first time that a dealer, faced with overwhelming evidence on this forum of bad faith behaviour, has come forward to announce that he's seen the light and will now make everything right.

Wolf359

Put a negative feedback to the seller.

If you want to sell the coin, contact #2 (the person who bid $600) and see if they want the coin. Be honest with them and take a small loss if necessary (take a $100 off the price). Live and learn. The seller looks bad and will suffer accordingly.

Someone also suggested placing it on eBay with a "no return" policy. Again, be honest and willing to probably take a loss. Live and learn. Sometimes the bear gets you and sometimes you get the bear.

cosmicdebris

The the below is the return policy right from his about me page on ebay:


BID WITH CONFIDENCE: We guarantee all items we sell to be genuine and offer a no-questions-asked return policy if you are not satisfied with your purchase.

Enuff said

bigindie

Forward him this thread so he can see all the bad PR his "return policy" has generated. If that doesn't sway him (which it won't) contact Ebay, PayPal, Postal Authorities, ANA (and the other 2 he's a member of) and PCGS. What goes around comes around.

Coppernicus

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I don't see his NQA return policy. Did he remove it from the listing?

Linky

Mike

kranky

Coppernicus, the policy is on the seller's About Me page

Coppernicus

Thanks kranky - But shouldn't a seller have his return policy as part of the item description? I always do!

MIke

ARCO

Tough call to make. Seller states a return policy, but buyer is ultra fussy. You bought a PCGS graded coin and did not agree with the grade. Will you ever agree? Seller won't return, doesn't want to be the go between with you and PCGS, but has stated a no questions asked return policy.

You both have legitimate gripes, but it seems PCGS should be skewered and raked over the coals for not grading MS70's the way you like them!

Good luck,
Tyler

airplanenut

He's wrong, you're right... tell everyone if he doesn't give in... that could really screw him over...