Why are Franklins so cheap??

bushmaster8

Anyone care to speculate?

With the rare coin market being so hot these days, why are Franklins virtually dead in the water?

Yesterday a 1954-S PCGS MS66 sold for $77 on Ebay! That is dirt cheap!!

LucyBop

a 54s in a PCGs holder ms66 is a heck of a deal......

It depends on the coin, this is a very rough and tough and competitive registry set to be involved in, and, if your looking to be a top ten player, trust me, it isn't cheap.

MoneyLA

I don't think it's that Franklins are cheap... I think that there are a lot of cheap buyers on eBay. Several dealers I know told me that ebay has died for them. No one bidding, and everyone just trying to get thinks as cheap as they can. Sort of like a "buyers strike."

I know an art dealer in Denver who wouldnt even think of putting anything on ebay now.

cheers, alan

Waldo

<< <i>I don't think it's that Franklins are cheap... I think that there are a lot of cheap buyers on eBay. Several dealers I know told me that ebay has died for them. No one bidding, and everyone just trying to get thinks as cheap as they can. Sort of like a "buyers strike."

I know an art dealer in Denver who wouldnt even think of putting anything on ebay now.

cheers, alan >>



I wouldn't call the buyers on Ebay cheap. If the right coin comes along, look out! But Ebayers do reflect the overall market for a given series.

Typetone

Franklin pops have increased dramatically in the past few years. While demand has increased as well, it is not quite keeping pace. Demand for low pop, top pops remains high, and these prices are remaining strong. One -back graded pieces have been going down. Franklins also trade on eye appeal. With so many ugly Franklins out there, the white or pretty toned pieces go for big premiums. The trick is to buy pretty pieces at small premiums if you can.

Greg

Steve27

I agree with greg, the dark ugly ones sell for a deep discount over the white coins (sometimes people collect coins and not numbers on slabs). Additionally, if it's not FBL, it doesn't get much attention.

DennisH

Because supply exceeds demand?

rainbowroosie

Bushmaster,
You know the answer. Some Frankies are dirt cheap because they are ugly overgraded pigs --other Frankies sell for multiples of "bid" because they are "great toned" (see if you get this pun) and properly graded...Best example is the 58D. A flaming gem rainbow 58D in 66 FBL will bring $1000+ (Might I say ANACONDA) while a gray marked up plastic 66 dog bisquit will bring squat....By the way, do YOU have any rainbow Frankies you would like to post photos of to PROVE my point??

Gembens

....because Pepperdoodles flooded the market with tricked up, overgraded junk !!?

fantasiize

Not sure why, but the only one that I gave away (sorry, sold) in the past 12 months was a PCGS 1963p in MS65, for about $18. Some of the others that I had tried to sell cheap (in ms65 & ms65fbl) did not even sell.

SO, at this point, those coins are keepers to be sold at a later point in time (maybe much much later).

bennybravo

ttt

flykite

Franklins being THIS dead in a rising market is a mystery. The series
is hurt by inconsistent grading, and toned coins vary wildly. Many
brilliant specimens have water stains, and the series as a whole
is "lost" between Walkers and Kennedys. I have also seen many 64
coins as good as or better than 65's, and this hurts consumer confidence
in regards to just how good is it?? The Cameo Proof collector niche
often overshadows the mint-state crowd, and PCGS's refusal to recognize
interesting and important die-varieties doesn't help matters! Did you
know that a 1958-P mint-state Franklin with the type 2 (proof-die)
reverse in FBL may not exist, yet we pay big $$$$ for the '53-S.

LucyBop

<< <i>Did you
know that a 1958-P mint-state Franklin with the type 2 (proof-die)
reverse in FBL may not exist, yet we pay big $$$$ for the '53-S. >>



hmmm..... never heard of this..... I would rather have the 53s in a FBL.

bushmaster8

flykite- that is certainly interesting. care to share your source for that esoteric variety tidbit?

coinkat

just remember that coins move in cycles and someday Franklins will have a turn in the spot light. I still think a nice collection can be put together for a reasonable price...I'm not talking MS66FBL just lower grade uncs.

flykite

Bushmaster:

I site the great Walter Breen as my source, but I first saw it listed 30+ years ago in Spadone's
"Major oddity & variety". According to Breen (in the Encyclopedia he wrote) the 1958 and 1959
reverses share the following: 1958 have the standard low-relief eagle (type 1) on 80% of the
mintage. on the other 20%, the high-relief eagle (type 2) are struck from retired proof dies!

Same holds for 1959 EXCEPT for the following: 10% are type 1, 85+% are type 2, and the remaining
are type 3, which is an overstrike of the type 1 and 2 (known as the double-die reverse) gives you
a medium-eagle as a result. I asked Breen about all this back at an ANA in Pitt. (late 1980's??) and
he told me the mint was trying to get by until they redid the master dies in 1960.

HepKitty:

A well-struck type 2 '58P ie extremely RARE! I have onlly seen a handfull in PCGS 65; all brilliant (none made it
into mintsets, as this was done very late in the year) most are heavilly bagged, and I have never seen
an FBL in 30+ years

bushmaster8

flykite-- I was not aware of that, I thought the two types of eagle thingee only applied to the 1959's.

Thanks for enlightening me!

But would not those coins struck from proof dies have bell lines? , as most proofs do? Or were the proof dies REALLY worn out??

btw- I like the look of your Frankie reg set! my set is all white, listed as White Tornado Franklins in the registry. My 51-S is the highlite of my set- MS66 FBL white. I hope to post pix someday.

IrishMike

With all due respect to Adrian what he pays for coins doesn't influence the entire market. This 58-D 66FBL Frankie just sold this past weekend on Ebay for considerably less than $1000, in fact it sold for $162.49

Ebay link

wondercoin

58(D) - Just another example of a "steal of a deal" on ebay. WOW

Wondercoin

IrishMike

Mitch, I bet the seller wished he had set a reserve on this coin.

flykite

Bushmaster:

Concerning FBL from proof dies; remember, business strikes are done at a much lower die pressure.

What this does not explain is the fact that you CAN find 59P in FBL with the proof reverse.

The type 3 (double-die) are usually FBL; I have handled about 15 of these ( 5-PCGS 65FBL, and 10 in 64FBL)

Ed

bushmaster8

I do agree that Frankie pops have really swelled in the last few years, particularly the 1960-D.

(I can remember a time in 1986 when Leroy Lenhart (sp?) had nearly 50% of the entire population of PCGS MS65's in inventory!)

But surely the population explosion must slow down at some point. The cardboard mint sets surely have a very finite number left to be tapped. (How about some guesses as to the number of those ORIGINAL mint sets that are still intact? I would venture 10-20%.)

By the same token, how many nice original rolls can there be still unsearched?

Even though the pops seem high in relation to the pops of, say, ten years ago; the pops are still miniscule when compared to Morgans. Granted, Morgans are far more popular than Frankies, but still...

The one thing that is for SURE is this is a good time to buy

puff

hmmm..... never heard of this..... I would rather have the 53s in a FBL. >>



Lucy Bop..... At present I'm not collecting Franklins..... But is'nt the 49-D the toughest Franklin to find in a high grade?

LucyBop

the 53s in FBL is the toughest scarcest Frankie of them all, the Holy Grail.... this GEM was once part of the HepKitty collection:



A 49d In Gem is a easy find, though pricey....... but the 53s can be a once in a lifetime coin.......


edited to add: the 53s is the scarcest as far as regular issues, some of the varitites mentioned in this thread I'll admit I don't know much about these and will agree that these sound extremely scarce as well.... but a FBL coin in any grade from a 53s is a prize! Try to find one.

puff

<< <i>the 53s in FBL is the toughest scarcest Frankie of them all, the Holy Grail.... this GEM was once part of the HepKitty collection:



A 49d In Gem is a easy find, though pricey....... but the 53s can be a once in a lifetime coin.......


edited to add: the 53s is the scarcest as far as regular issues, some of the varitites mentioned in this thread I'll admit I don't know much about these and will agree that these sound extremely scarce as well.... but a FBL coin in any grade from a 53s is a prize! Try to find one. >>


Thanks for the info... I didn't know that!

I think you're

foodude

Lucy is not only cool, she's the HepKitty from Hepcat City.

PawPaul

why do Franklin's stay so cheap

DennisH

<< <i>why do Franklin's stay so cheap >>

Because supply generally exceeds demand?

ProofCents

The coin market is lacking high end or very rare coins. If you only put junk up for auction your going to get weak prices. The people who hold the high end coins are not selling them right now so it makes the market look weak when its really weak coins selling for weak prices.

yellowjacket

I've submitted several pieces from original rolls. The nicer pieces I have placed in auctions with middling success. Franklin's are weakening due to over supply. Better examples with eye-appeal will always bring better money in any series.
Garrow

yellowjacket

There are untold numbers of original rolls of Franklins in safe deposit boxes waiting to be sold, broken out and submitted. The populations will continue to swell for these and other later date series. Strike rarities will probably continue to be scarce, i.e. 53-S FBL.
Garrow

sinin1

They are like classic commemoratives


pushed/hyped by promoters to investors for premium

still raw coins that are in folders/mint sets getting better
rolls of original banked wrapped coins still waiting to be evaluated


they are going to get even cheaper

once their value for 65s drop in half, they will become collectable again to new
buyers


edited to add - there are no keys or rarities unless you talk FBL

even the 1970-D Kennedy half had a lower mintage than any Franklin

PawPaul

"they are going to get even cheaper .............."