1799 Draped Bust Dollar -- New Photos Showing Concentric Toning !!

Stuart

Thanks to several forum members who have responded to my request for grading and Bolender attribute information on my 1799 Draped Bust Dollar.

Special thanks to Cardinal, JBSteven & JadeCoin for their private messages and follow-up e-mails with lots of insightful information and valuable advice concerning this coin.

I have added links (below) to a couple of new photographs of the Obv & Rev of the coin that I took this evening, with the coin out of the holder, and with a light angle that really shows the beautiful concentric toning on both sides of the coin.

The toning begins as a light brown halo just around the outside of Miss Liberty's profile, and transitions into a dark metallic blue color from just inside the stars extending out to the periphery of the coin.

The following 2 photos have been reduced in file size to <50 KBytes to conform with the CU Forum uploading file size restrictions. However if you PM me I'll be happy to e-mail you the high resolution 500 KByte file size photos.

Thanks to everyone for your consideration and for providing me with your advice.

Placid

I never noticed how much trouble the mint had making the nose on those look right before.
Nice color. You sending it in for certification?

billboat

A drop dead gorgeous dollar--is it for sale or just for looking?

Stuart

Placid: I'm considering sending it in for certification. I've had the coin since 1991, when I purchased it raw from a local Houston coin show.

I will probably bring it with me to the upcoming S.W. Money Show (Houston) so that I may ask Mike Ferrone of ANACS for his verbal opinon of the coin. After I learn more about it, after a visual inspection of it, I will make my decision as to whether or not to send it to either ANACS, NGC or PCGS.

Thanks for your interest!

Stuart

BillBoat: Thanks for your compliments on my prize coin the 1799 Draped Bust Dollar. It's the centerpiece of my early coin collection, and one of my favorite coin designs.

I am not planning to offer it for sale, but I wanted to share the pictures with my fellow forum members.

Thanks for your encouragement and your interest.

stman

Hey these are what I've been interested in lately. Well the halves as I don't feel I can do the dollars. Nice coin, do you mind sharing the info you received from these people?

billboat

Stuart--Thanks for sharing it--I certainly couldn't afford it even if it were for sale--but a guy can dream! I collect Draped and Bust Halves by date, not variety, and I still need an early dollar for my type collection. Yours is magnificent!

Baley

That is a nice looking dollar!
the lighting in your pic could be better, but I know you were trying to capture the color, and to do that you have to bounce a lot of light off it, but I'd like to see a pic in regular light to compare

Gemini

A nice sharp dollar Stuart I like it.

dorkkarl

this is the type of toning typical of plasticized holders, not cardboard/album toning. my guess is you've had it in a plastic capsule w/ foam surround. toning is not dazzling, but can obviously enhance the appeance. my opinion: au-55++ detail, dipped (long ago), rim bump at s1, overall grade au-55. this is assuming 50% cartwheel luster or more exists (can't tell in the digi-pic).

a terrific coin that stands up well under it's own merits, & the appeal is enhanced because it is not entombed in a heavy piece of plastic. i think you ought to send it in, but then crack it right back out once you got that 3d opinion. you'll never appreciate the coin more than you can now in it's raw state, which is how it was intended to exist!

congrats!!!

K S

jbsteven

Stuart

stman: I'll be pleased to share the information that I received on the coin from fellow CU Forum members, but I'll have to post it this evening after work.

For now, the short answer is to say that I've been advised that it's a Bolender Variety B-10 (Rarity-3) and a Bowers & Borkhart Variety BB-163 (Rarity-3), and that the reverse of the coin may be a scarcer die state (d/s a).

Consensus on the coin's grade (from examining just the photos) seems to be around AU-55.

Placid

Does anyone know if anacs would net grade it because of the scratch on the reverse from the arrows-wing tip?
I know anacs likes to net for scratches but not sure about bust dollars.

MadMonk

Now that caused a little jump in my system.....very nice.

jadecoin

Does anyone know if anacs would net grade it because of the scratch on the reverse from the arrows-wing tip?

Placid, that is actually not a scratch, but rather a die crack known on the B-10 variety. We had commented privately to Stuart that we felt this was die state "a", but that's because no die cracks were visible in the original images that he sent to us. Now we are confused about the actual die state of his B-10. The crack visible through the arrows developed after a stronger crack through "AMERICA" on the reverse. I don't see that crack. Also, and I have communicated this to Stuart, we are very curious about the rim anomalies at star #1 and under the last "9" in the date. Obverse 4 is used on 6 different marriages, but none of the varieties show rim breaks (cuds) in these areas. Are the anomalies caused by rim bumps that we can't see? Any help from the bust dollar experts out there would be appreciated. I am guessing that some of the finer die cracks were lost in the imaging of the coin, but are actually present.

Stuart, congratulations on a beautiful coin. I would grade it as a solid AU-53, assuming that luster is present in the protected areas.

Placid

I can't tell by the picture if that line is raised or into the surface.
A die crack is raised I belive. Should be easy enough for Stuart to check and verify.

jadecoin

Placid, per the Bolender book, that is a well documented die crack for that reverse die. You are correct though, it should be raised. We can't tell from the images if it is raised or into the metal, but we know that there should be a crack running through the arrows just as indicated in Stuart's images.

Stuart

I'll check the reverse of the coin tonight (after work) to determine if the feature that is being discussed is either a raised die crack or an indented scratch. I'll post my findings tonight.

Thanks for everyone's interest in helping us to properly attribute this coin. This forum is a great collector community with a wealth of knowledge!

airplanenut

PCGS won't attribute the coin- send it to NGC or ANACS.

jadecoin

PCGS won't attribute the coin- send it to NGC or ANACS.

I don't think that any service will list the die state, which is the open issue at this time. Stuart, perhaps you can call me this evening and we can discuss the coin as you are viewing it through your microscope?? The apparent cuds on the obverse have me intrigued.

Stuart

Dennis: I'll give you a call tonight as you suggested so that we can talk through this interactively. Thanks!!

stman

So many things to find out on the early coinage to grade them. Not knowing much about these my first thought was middle of the road AU with what looks like rim damage. And a clean and or dip and re-tone. Will the services give a coin like this slack and grade it, if it is indeed rim damage? Thanks for sharing this Stuart!!!!

Stuart

I'll check the reverse of the coin tonight (after work) to determine if the feature that is being discussed is either a raised die crack or an indented scratch. I'll post my findings tonight.

After closely examining the arc shaped linear feature on the reverse of the 1799 bust Dollar, extending from the bunch of arrows held in the eagle's right talon (left side of coin) to near the tip of it's right wing, I have determined it conclusively to be a raised die crack and not an indented scratch.

I was able to get a good view of it through a binocular microscope with good lighting so that there is no doubt about it. (Please see photo link and photos posted earlier in this thread for visual reference.)

Placid

Great!

dizzlecc

I have had the pleasure of seeing the coin in person. It is a very beautiful and unique piece of art.


I tried to trade him a state quarter for it but he wouldn't go for it.

kamehameha00

Accented Nose variety



BTW,nice coin

mgoodm3

Very nice coin. I see the beautiful pictures here all day and it makes me drool for what I don't have. One day I will have them, They will be mine.

Stuart

Damian: What type of state quarter were you planning to offer in trade for my Bust Dollar? Was it perhaps a rare PCGS Proof 69 Ultra Ultra Ultra Deep Deep Deep Cameo Georgia State Quarter ???

You know I may be tempted to trade because I have a soft spot in my heart for Georgia... But not quite that soft...

Now, if you had a really really nice 1907 High Relief St. Gaudens in PCGS or NGC certified 65 grade maybe we could start horsetrading ....

Stuart

Attached and below are some new comparison photos of my AU 1799 Draped Bust Dollar that were taken in Natural sunlight, which depict the concentric toning of the coin in more natural color balance than previous photos that were taken in artificial light.

Although these are a bit pixelated due to 50 KByte forum file size limitation, this is how the coin really looks.