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How I Got Two Genuine 1877 Indian Head Cents for Eight Dollars
lordmarcovan
Posts: 43,198 ✭✭✭✭✭
OK, here goes. (True story).
It's the year 7 B.C. or so (that's seven years Before Computer, in other words, about 1992 in my case). Asheville, NC. An earlier career and marriage- a completely different life for me. I went into Bill Wright's coin shop to sell a few pitiful coins I had, since we were dirt poor, living hand-to-mouth, and were having many of our utitilities shut off on us.
I don't remember what I sold, but I happened to notice Bill had stacks and stacks of British large pennies on his desk. Hundreds of them. And also a bunch of other world coins. I told him I liked the Brit pennies, as they were old and big and cheap and cool, yada yada yada. So he says I can have the whole hoard of "foreign" coins for 10 cents each. But there is a catch. I have to buy them all. (Bill hates "foreign" stuff and dumps it as fast as possible). There are 400 coins. Forty bucks. A king's ransom to me in those days.
I threw caution to the wind and spent forty bucks on the coins, leaving me slightly poorer than I had been when I went into the shop. (What my then-wife didn't know wouldn't hurt her). I went through all the coins, using the Krause catalogs. Conservatively graded, what was the total catalog value of the 400-piece lot that cost me forty bucks?
$1,280.00.
Cha-ching.
Most of the Brit pennies were key or semi-key dates. There was a nice 1752 halfpenny in there, too. And a Swedish billon solidus from the 1640's. And an Irish coin worth ninety bucks by itself. And a large number of Dutch coins from the late 1800's and early 1900's, including plenty of silver. The list goes on and on.
Now, these are foreign coins, mind you. I live in the South and sell at the redneck flea market occasionally. My chances of getting twelve hundred bucks out of this lot of coins, let alone selling very many of them at all, is roughly equivalent to my chances of playing tiddleywinks with my earlobes.
BUT- I can try to swap them through the free classifieds in Numismatic News.
Turns out an old swapping partner of mine in Indiana (our very own Sam Petry, aka "Cladking" on these forums), was interested in swapping for the Dutch coins from the lot. They had a combined catalog value of $350.00 or so, and there were about eighty of them. So, figure I paid ten cents each; therefore I had eight bucks total in them.
All right, so now I'm out eight bucks plus shipping for my end of the trade. Sam sends me a fantastically beautiful 1937 15-piece British proof set in the original case. Sweeeet set, with fantastic toning. Worth about $185.00 catalog at the time, so Sam got the better end of the trade in catalog value, but I didn't mind that one teeny little bit.
I kept that set for a while. Then, one day, on a whim, I took it in to Bill Wright's shop. This is the same guy who hates foreign coins and sold me the box of "junk" that started the whole thing, remember. Bill loves the Brit proof set, and believe me, Bill is very hard to impress with US coins, let alone British ones. I forget how it happened, but when I left the shop that afternoon, Bill had ended up with my 1937 British proof set and I had TWO 1877 Indian cents in exchange. (I was sort of working on a G-VG Indian cent set at the time). One of the '77 Indians was an AG/G with no problems, the other was a G/VG with some counting wheel damage across the headband.
So, let's sum up:
And it was all gained by trading with two guys who both knew more about numismatics than I did. I told Bill how well I did on the deal, and his only reply was, "Good for you." (He still didn't give a hoot that he'd dumped $1,280.00 worth of world coins on me for forty bucks. It wasn't worth his time to mess with them, he said.)
Oh, yeah- icing on the cake- I got four or five hundred more bucks out of the rest of that box of foreign "junk", though it took me another two years or so to get it, and I sold the coins well below catalog.
The morals of this rambling tale:
1) Never turn up your nose at "foreign junk", just because you personally aren't into it. It's a potential gold mine, not to mention educational and fun. Plus the coins are interesting and beautiful. Even if you don't collect it, you can cherrypick it, sell it, and buy stuff that DOES interest you. "The Dark Side" beckons, folks! But it does require some patience. And the right books. Which brings me to the next point...
2) Money spent on reference books is never wasted, even if you don't end up using the books much. A few months before all these trades, I had spent $120.00 on the ANA Centennial special hardcover editions of the Krause catalogs, which covered basically every world coin from 1701 up in two volumes. At the time, that was the most comprehensive coverage available in a single publication, and the books represented a huge sacrifice for me considering my poverty. It paid for itself many, many times over, though. Without the Krause, I wouldn't have known what I had.
It's the year 7 B.C. or so (that's seven years Before Computer, in other words, about 1992 in my case). Asheville, NC. An earlier career and marriage- a completely different life for me. I went into Bill Wright's coin shop to sell a few pitiful coins I had, since we were dirt poor, living hand-to-mouth, and were having many of our utitilities shut off on us.
I don't remember what I sold, but I happened to notice Bill had stacks and stacks of British large pennies on his desk. Hundreds of them. And also a bunch of other world coins. I told him I liked the Brit pennies, as they were old and big and cheap and cool, yada yada yada. So he says I can have the whole hoard of "foreign" coins for 10 cents each. But there is a catch. I have to buy them all. (Bill hates "foreign" stuff and dumps it as fast as possible). There are 400 coins. Forty bucks. A king's ransom to me in those days.
I threw caution to the wind and spent forty bucks on the coins, leaving me slightly poorer than I had been when I went into the shop. (What my then-wife didn't know wouldn't hurt her). I went through all the coins, using the Krause catalogs. Conservatively graded, what was the total catalog value of the 400-piece lot that cost me forty bucks?
$1,280.00.
Cha-ching.
Most of the Brit pennies were key or semi-key dates. There was a nice 1752 halfpenny in there, too. And a Swedish billon solidus from the 1640's. And an Irish coin worth ninety bucks by itself. And a large number of Dutch coins from the late 1800's and early 1900's, including plenty of silver. The list goes on and on.
Now, these are foreign coins, mind you. I live in the South and sell at the redneck flea market occasionally. My chances of getting twelve hundred bucks out of this lot of coins, let alone selling very many of them at all, is roughly equivalent to my chances of playing tiddleywinks with my earlobes.
BUT- I can try to swap them through the free classifieds in Numismatic News.
Turns out an old swapping partner of mine in Indiana (our very own Sam Petry, aka "Cladking" on these forums), was interested in swapping for the Dutch coins from the lot. They had a combined catalog value of $350.00 or so, and there were about eighty of them. So, figure I paid ten cents each; therefore I had eight bucks total in them.
All right, so now I'm out eight bucks plus shipping for my end of the trade. Sam sends me a fantastically beautiful 1937 15-piece British proof set in the original case. Sweeeet set, with fantastic toning. Worth about $185.00 catalog at the time, so Sam got the better end of the trade in catalog value, but I didn't mind that one teeny little bit.
I kept that set for a while. Then, one day, on a whim, I took it in to Bill Wright's shop. This is the same guy who hates foreign coins and sold me the box of "junk" that started the whole thing, remember. Bill loves the Brit proof set, and believe me, Bill is very hard to impress with US coins, let alone British ones. I forget how it happened, but when I left the shop that afternoon, Bill had ended up with my 1937 British proof set and I had TWO 1877 Indian cents in exchange. (I was sort of working on a G-VG Indian cent set at the time). One of the '77 Indians was an AG/G with no problems, the other was a G/VG with some counting wheel damage across the headband.
So, let's sum up:
- $40.00 to Bill for box of world coins (400 coins at ten cents each).$8.00 of that was for 80 Dutch coins (80 coins at ten cents each).Dutch coins to Sam, British proof set in return.Proof set to Bill, two 1877 Indians in return.
And it was all gained by trading with two guys who both knew more about numismatics than I did. I told Bill how well I did on the deal, and his only reply was, "Good for you." (He still didn't give a hoot that he'd dumped $1,280.00 worth of world coins on me for forty bucks. It wasn't worth his time to mess with them, he said.)
Oh, yeah- icing on the cake- I got four or five hundred more bucks out of the rest of that box of foreign "junk", though it took me another two years or so to get it, and I sold the coins well below catalog.
The morals of this rambling tale:
1) Never turn up your nose at "foreign junk", just because you personally aren't into it. It's a potential gold mine, not to mention educational and fun. Plus the coins are interesting and beautiful. Even if you don't collect it, you can cherrypick it, sell it, and buy stuff that DOES interest you. "The Dark Side" beckons, folks! But it does require some patience. And the right books. Which brings me to the next point...
2) Money spent on reference books is never wasted, even if you don't end up using the books much. A few months before all these trades, I had spent $120.00 on the ANA Centennial special hardcover editions of the Krause catalogs, which covered basically every world coin from 1701 up in two volumes. At the time, that was the most comprehensive coverage available in a single publication, and the books represented a huge sacrifice for me considering my poverty. It paid for itself many, many times over, though. Without the Krause, I wouldn't have known what I had.
29
Comments
Do you have any more stories like that? Perhaps a few coin detector finds would brighten up the boards for this holiday weekend?
To be fair, you were mighty fortunate to get such good Darkside material for 10c/coin but nonetheless, you made the best of what you had.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
<< <i>To be fair, you were mighty fortunate to get such good Darkside material for 10c/coin but nonetheless, you made the best of what you had. >>
True, true. I wish every Darkside lot I bought was like that. Lucky breaks like that happen to me only once every 5 years or so, but those ain't bad odds, I reckon.
This is really more of a tale of using other people's Darkside-phobia to cash in on the Liteside. I have a long history of that. I built most of my old PCGS Reg sets that way.
One must enjoy the Darkside (or whatever one is cherrypicking), though, or it really isn't worth the time. Bill Wright does lots of big Liteside transactions and simply does not have the time or inclination to mess with the Darkside stuff. He knew full well I was cherrypicking him and didn't care.
Here you go: Tiddlywinks.org.. The North American Tiddlywinks Association.
Geez, how pathetic, if they are for real.
My tiddlywink comment above is a ripoff of one of John Candy's lines in Planes, Trains, and Automobiles, one of my favorite flicks of all time. But John Candy said "Pick-Up Stix", I believe.
After all was said and done, I rather regret parting with that gorgeous 1937 15-pc Brit proof set. I've never seen another like it. I've only seen two or three for sale since, and they weren't as nice.
Sometimes catalog value is irrelevant on an item like that.
Also, I have to admit that I have been looking at more & more 'darkside' goodies lately.
Vive Le DARK!!!!
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5
"For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
I hate it when you see my post before I can edit the spelling.
Always looking for nice type coins
my local dealer
09/07/2006
It was unethical of you to take advantage of that poor dealer. You should look him up and split your profits with him.
(this is sarcasm, in case you were wondering).
Mike
How about a necro-thread resurrection, just for fun?
Almost 18 years later. I was referencing this ancient tale on another site, and came here, so I might as well send it back up into the sunlight.
Goodness, what a blast from the past.
RIP, @carlwohlforth. Miss ya.
Happy to see @oreville is still around. I think @cladking is too, but less active. Bill Wright, the Asheville, NC dealer mentioned here, retired some time ago.
Great story. Similar to the story I like to tell that I got my 1909-S VDB from coin roll hunting. No, I didn't find a VDB in a roll of cents but I did find enough silver in searching half dollar rolls that I was able to sell on Ebay that financed the entire cost of it. I ended up with an NGC VG10.
About four years ago, bought about 400K junk era baseball and basketball cards for like 5 cards per penny.
Was about to toss a mix mash of Nascar cards. Thought, lets see if there in Earnhardt auto or Petty auto. Found and in person auto of Michael Jordan! Paid for about half the purchase price once graded and sold. If it wasn't black ink on a dark background it would have been a keeper.
Just the other day found a super rare Barry Bonds from that same purchase while going thru an album. Will grade PSA 9 or better and should net $250.
Love found treasure.
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
You sure have a way with words, @lordmarcovan !
Great story.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
Great story, thanks for sharing!
Very good story. Enjoyable as I'm sure everyone who's spent 60 or more years in the hobby has similar stories, whether as profitable as not. We should hear them all. Thanks, LM, for sharing.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
incredible story - great lessons
Glad you resurrected this thread, Lord M. Great story! Always nice to see a post from you.
Which is why we stay engaged with like-minded collectors, IMO. Gotta love the coin journey to the IHCs. Peace Roy
BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall
Another great story LordM.... Good to see you posting again....Cheers, RickO
nice story ... thanks for bringing it back up !!
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successful BST with Ankurj, BigAl, Bullsitter, CommemKing, DCW(7), Elmerfusterpuck, Joelewis, Mach1ne, Minuteman810430, Modcrewman, Nankraut, Nederveit2, Philographer(5), Realgator, Silverpop, SurfinxHI, TomB and Yorkshireman(3)
WOW! Very nice story.
@lordmarcovan - I remember this post! Wonderful story. The kind I think we all love to hear! Good to see you here, sir!
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Tom, formerly in Albuquerque, NM.