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A dip gone bad

Lakesammman spotted this coin on Ebay recently, and now that a new image has turned up in Heritage's Long Beach Sig Sale our suspicions are confirmed. Not only did the dip not remove any of the spots but it clung to areas of the coin, turning it very funky. I owned it two years ago and it was one of my first experiments in digital imaging. At that time it was in a PCGS MS65 green holder. Someone's going to have to explain to me how this got regraded at MS65 by PCGS!
Before/After
Before/After

Paul <> altered surfaces <> CoinGallery.org
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It's also instructive to demonstrate the reduction in the amount of mint luster on the coin caused by the dipping.
Stuart
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It probably did not look the way it looks now when PCGS slabbed it
a grade guarantee coin of the near future?
Good point Sinin1, I didn't consider that but I bet you're right.
Oh well.
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<< <i>Manofcoins -- I sold it thru Heritage for $2100 over a year ago, a little more than I paid for it. The flecks keep it from being a solid 65, even with the nice strike. Nowadays decent examples are selling for 3K+. Perhaps someone will buy this one cheap and give NCS a shot. >>
This is an example of a nice original coin that has been ruined. It will probably end up at NCS but no matter what they do it will never be original again. I become convinced more every day that truly original coins from the early series are going to have their day in the not too distant future. They are getting very hard to find!
PCGS should cut a check for this coin & get it off the market.
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Sorry if this is an affront to your expertise.
Tom
LEAVE WELL ENOUGH ALONE !
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I love the cataloguer's description:
"A radiant example with excellent sharpness on the headdress and blushes of golden-orange patina surrounding the portrait and over the entire reverse. Important one-year type and an issue that is quite elusive any finer."
What a crock.
Tom look at the small spots/marks directly in front on the eye, nose, and between the E and D of UNITED. They line up perfectly on both coins.
The original color of an 1859 Indian cent should look close to the color of jnickel and not copper.After all there is 88% nickel and 12% copper.This coin was dipped before Shylock bought the coin.
Stewart
Definitely Sloppy work !!!!
stewart
i was going to post that the coin got dipped and when this coin was reholdered/regraded it had not turned yet and probably turned aftee the coin was reholdered/regraded
i am surprised this coin would be offered on heritage and not sent in for the guarantee
does heritage think this coin will sell?? and even if so why would they put their reputation at risk by offering a no brainer dipped coin gone bad in the holder??
and then photograph it as such??
also for me and i think mostly anyone these two photos you posted are the same coins and it is like a no brainer to me that they are the same coins
again thanks paul for this really informative astute thread
it is curious that someone said on here the coin was dipped before it got into the green holder?
hmmmmmmmmmmmm
i just do not know i think most likely after
but if so why would someone try to remove fly specks with a quick dip especially so with a nice looking coin like this which i think it is another no brainer that the flecks would not go away by a simple dip
and most likely even ruin/change the color of the coin??
again a really interesting informative thread
michael
<< <i>The original color of an 1859 Indian cent should look close to the color of jnickel and not copper.After all there is 88% nickel and 12% copper.This coin was dipped before Shylock bought the coin. >>
Stewart - I think that should be 88% Copper & 12% Nickel - see any version of the Red Book - Rick Kay recently sent several 1858 patterns for SEM-EDX testing & they came back approx 89 CU / 11% NI which is essentially the standard C-N alloy used between 1856 & 1864 on FE & IHC pennies - There are several patterns during this period that are 75% CU & 25% NI which is the standard compostion of 3CN Nickels, Shield Nickels, Liberty Nickels & Jefferson Nickels (except the wartime issues). The Nickel Alloy patterns during this period (1858-1864) are as follows: 1856 Judd-183 (Pollack-214 & a variation listed as Pollack-217), 1858 Judd-217a (Pollack-240 - same design as Judd-193), 1858 Judd-218a (Pollack-232 - same design as Judd-198), 1858 Judd-207a (Pollack-244 - same design as Judd-206). THere are also a couple of pure Nickel FE patterns (1856 Pollack-208 & Pollack-241, neither listed in Judd, Pollack says Unique?). Per Pollack, quoting the Coinage Act of February 21, 1857, Section 4: "And be it enacted, from and after the passage of this act . . . [weight verbiage omitted] . . . and the cent shall be composed of eighty-eight percentum of copper and twelve percentum of Nickel"
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Tom - besides all the spots that match up, there's even a cud at 7 o'clock on the obverse rim on both coins. This coin's loaded with pedigree marks, most of which the dippee was trying to remove to double his money.
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that must hurt - like selling an original '59 Chevy and having some kid total it out in the next week
Only thing worse I can think of is when I met a guy that cleaned his copper pennies with Texas Pete Hot Sauce and Brasso.... I told the idiot he should just use battery acid and sandpaper so he could destroy them faster!!!!!
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I would bet money that a big dealer and regular submitter to PCGS sent this coin in. If I submitted it I would get a BB.
Where's the "coin doctor posse" when you need them. It was probably someone on the posse who dipped this coin!
Greg Hansen, Melbourne, FL Click here for any current EBAY auctions Multiple "Circle of Trust" transactions over 14 years on forum
Ditto.
Great sluething, Shylock.
DIPPING IS DOCTORING, & coin doctors SUCK!
K S
Anybody who would take a beautiful original IHC and treat it like that deserves no mercy from the real collectors!!!
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An unscrupulous person, if they know what they are doing, can get away with dipping a copper-nickel as it can look good at least for a while. Obviously they were hoping to upgrade the coin to a 66. This makes me wonder about the history of the three current generation MS66 copper-nickels that are in the same auction. Would have a hard time bidding on those now if I was so inclined to previously.
you'll remember that members of said posse didn't agree that dipping coins equates to doctoring. this thread shows why i totally disagree.
broils the he11 out of me that there are so many peanut-brained jerks whose only objective is to think they can squeeze that extra 50 cents out of a coin if they can just dip it ONE MORE TIME. eerrhghghghgfhhghghh!!!
K S
I cant really see that much difference from the AT grim...why...why..why pcgs didnt you punish with even a 64...like K6Az and dragons overgraded CCs gem I strongly suggest you get this damaging stuff off the market, reslab and dock your graders paychecks to let them know you are serious....this inconsistant crap must stop!!
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