Bust Half- Which slab is worth more for the same coin?

jamesfsm

I have a very nice Bust Half that has had four homes:

Bought as ACG MS61 (for low AU money)

Sent to ANACS for crossover- ANACS UNC Details, Net AU55- scratched (never did find the scratch)

Cracked and sent to NGC- NGC AU58

Cracked and sent to PCGS- PCGS AU55

Which slab has the highest resale value???

BigD5

I like that NGC au/58 slab. I'm sure it's a nice looking coin, that will most likely sell itself, but for me, I'd prefer the NGC au/58 holder, if that matters.

CapAnson

Once it's been in an ACG it's tainted forever... j/k

keets

with Bust Half-Dollars the best state might be raw so you can see the third side. you have the opinion of 4 grading services and your own so why not crack it and keep the inserts. if it has to be in a holder i'd have it in the ANACS since they'll attribute it and add that to the insert.

al h.

dorkkarl

keets is 100% correct

K S

Placid

Depends somewhat on the date and variety. If its a 1807 50/20 the ngc.
If it's a 1824 r1 then a tie with pcgs/ngc.

Perhaps in what holder would the coin bring the highest price in a eBay auction would be a better way of putting it if I understand your question correct.

elwood

The PCGS AU-55 for resale

jamesfsm

I was asking Elwood's question. My guess is that the marketplace will assume a PCGS AU55 is similar to an NGC AU58-60.

4thStooge

<< <i>I was asking Elwood's question. My guess is that the marketplace will assume a PCGS AU55 is similar to an NGC AU58-60. >>



Or the coin will find its own price level based solely on its appearance.

Perish the thought!

elwood

I find that true Bust Half collectors like there coins raw. I will actually crack a coin out of an ANACS or NGC holder and sell it raw. Unless it's Mint State. They won't even look at coins that aren't raw. As far as attribution. A Bust half collector will want to attribute it themselves or with some help. (I attribute the coins I sell) A type collector doesn't care what the variety is. The market is likely to value a PC-55 higher than a NG-58. Obviously this is also determined by the look of the coin. Originality, etc... With a coin that splits grades from 50-60 you definately want it in a holder to maximize your return.

billboat

I'm a bust half collector and you are 100% correct, I prefer my halves raw--the one exception will be the 1815/2, when I can afford it--and then it will be from ANACS.

jcping

The PCGS AU-55, period.

IrishMike

On common dates if you research the Heritage auction sites you will see that you will realize about $90 more in the higher graded NGC slab i.e an 1825 will sell for $402 vs $316 in a lower PCGS holder. Where do some of you guys come up with your advice? Please show me some numbers to back up the advise you hand out.

MrEureka

keets is 100% correct

No. Keets is 91% correct. NGC will also attribute Bust halves.

islemangu

What do you all mean about ANACS attribute and NGC does too? From context I'd guess indicate other grades from other 3rd party indicated on their insert...no way...something else?

EVillageProwler

At this grade level, the market is mostly driven by BHNC members. Those folks, as Elwood said, don't care for slabs. In fact, they will value a BH based on their own criteria, with remaining luster being at or near the top of the list.

In short, to the BHNC membership, if the coin has the luster and eye appeal of a AU63 coin, then that is what they will pay gladly pay MS62 money.

EVP

Placid

<< <i>What do you all mean about ANACS attribute and NGC does too? From context I'd guess indicate other grades from other 3rd party indicated on their insert...no way...something else? >>



Its the variety of the coin usually overton for bust halfs.
The differences in the dies and die combinations make different varietys.

elwood

<< <i>Where do some of you guys come up with your advice >>



IrishMike,

For one thing prices realized is OK in general to use, but you can't use the prices shown without figuring other factors. Example an NGC-61 sells or $1,322.50 but an NGC-62 sells for $650.90 What's the difference, one's an R-4 with upgrade potential or just a tough variety in high grade? The other is an R-2 graded accurately or overgraded? There's no way to use a numerical difference of 1 to justify these price differences. Did you notice all the Bust Halves in ANACS & NGC holders believe me this is not do to the fact that they make attributions (maybe partially). I believe it's called overgrading. Or you may have 2 bidders who want the same coin and they get carried away. You could also have a same date Bust half in PC-65 sell for $3,000.00 and an NGC-40 sell for $20,000.00. This is not do to the fact that NGC has dramatically undergraded this coin. It has to do with the NGC-40 being the finest known of a rare variety. So prices realized is not the best comparison to use unless you are comparing apples with apples.

NGC-58 $448.50 9/02, NGC-50 $172.50 06/03
NGC-58 $402.50 5/03, PC-50 $316.25 03/03
PC-58 $414.00 09/02,
PC-58 $437.00 08/00

Just a few examples, there is no way these numbers can be used unless you have looked at the coins in person and graded them. Most of these looked original from the images. So who knows how many or which ones are now dipped, recolored and in MS Holders.





<< <i>Where do some of you guys come up with your advice >>



From attending or setting up at 30+ shows a year. From viewing thousands of lots and attending every major auction in this country. That's where this advice comes from.

EVillageProwler

Hey Elwood,

Have you felt the baptism of fire yet?

EVP

ddink

Why do bust collectors like the coin raw? Is there something important about the rims?

EVillageProwler

Early U.S. coinage has three very important sides; the edge is usually not reeded nor smooth. BTW, there are Seated researchers who count reeds to help determine variety information. Talk about going bug-eyed!

EVP

elwood

EVP,


This IS fun!!!!!


Gives me something to do and scratches a severe itch I get between shows.

EVillageProwler

You friggin' junkie!



EVP

jamesfsm

BTW, I tend to agree with Elwood. PCGS is very picky about Bust coinage and a common date/variety in PCGS AU55 tends to be often much more attractive than an NGC AU58. My more limited travels lead me to believe that the same coin in PCGS AU55 plastic sells for more than in NGC AU58 plastic. PCGS tends to call the high detail, washed out looking Bust halves AU50 or even EF45, while that type of coin goes AU55-58 often at NGC.

jadecoin

This was a fascinating thread.

Coincidentally, I've recent had experiences opposite of what some of you have. The two vilest, most disgusting bust halves that I currently have in inventory are both PCGS-encapsulated. One is an 1827 that looks like it has mustard-green-brown slime smeared all over it. You can almost smell the toxic cloud right through the plastic! They graded it MS-63, and we currently have a sticker covering up the grade that says "net AU-50". The coin is an embarrassment to our other halves, and quite frankly, I usually don't even bother to put it out for display. Another is a 1820/19 that is obviously artificially toned with cigar smoke. I swear you could get your nicotine fix just by looking at this coin - and that's through the plastic.

On the other hand, we recently cracked out an NGC-encapsulated 1822 half that was graded AU-58 (I regraded as AU-55 raw) that has sweet pinwheel toning, and an 1812/1 that NGC encapsulated as AU-58 (again, we regraded as AU-55 raw) with spectacular blueberry wash toning.

To be fair, we just recently sold an NGC-encapsulated 1813 that they graded MS-64. We called it a net AU-58 due to harsh cleaning and mind-boggling ugly toning. We barely got UNC money for it. So it can go both was, I suppose....

I have a theory that what you may be seeing when you think that there are more "pretty" halves in PCGS capsules, is that many were probably crossed over from NGC and ANACS in the mistaken belief they would bring more money. One thing I can say for sure about bust halves is that in front of a knowledgeable audience of true collectors, the holder makes absolutely NO DIFFERENCE in what the coin is worth. I feel so sure of this, that we recently decided that at shows, we will no longer have the bust halves in any holder AT ALL! The halves will just be laying on a velvet cloth, subject to the customer's grading opinion.

RotatedRainbows

My past experience matches Jadecoin, back when I was very active in Busties (I had almost 300 pieces with about 250 of the 450+ known varieties) most PCGS graded coins when offered for sale by a Bust Half specialist always had a second grade in parentheses stating what they graded the coin and it was always 5-10 points below the PCGS grade. I would sure like to see some of those PCGS AU55 that is as good as my NGC AU58, most PCGS 55's I see have decent detail and not enough luster or decent luster but to much rub (especially in the fields killing most of the luster). My NGC 58 has 95% cartwheel luster on both sides is exceedingly well struck for this two year type (especially considering the late die state) and has only the faintest hints of rub on a few of the high points, it debatable as to whether this piece ever really circulated or just has a little cabinet friction. All the coins I have ever seen in PCGS AU55 holders were no doubt circulated pieces (or were cleaned). Sometimes it seems that people hear about how much stricter PCGS is on moderns and try to apply that same logic to all coins i.e. PCGS always grades 1 point lower then NGC would grade the same coin and unfortunately it does not hold water for many early type coins.

IrishMike

elwood, the question was NGC58 vs PCGS55, not the same grades.

sinin1

Legend Laura is offering 2K for a 1813 PCGS in AU58 in the registry forum

mozin

As to the original question, I think the NGC AU58 and PCGS AU55 should normally bring about the same money. Without seeing the coin in hand, I would choose to own the PCGS coin. NGC simply overgrades too many Busties by too many grading points too many times.

By the way, my Bustie collection is entirely encapsulated now. Only thing I do not like about it is that I cannot see the edge lettering to determine edge varieties.

I agree that rare varieties do not need to be encapsulated to sell easily, at least in below AU grades. When Bustie collections go up for auction it is often the case that coins worth over $300 are encapsulated for the auction.

JRocco

<< <i>with Bust Half-Dollars the best state might be raw so you can see the third side. you have the opinion of 4 grading services and your own so why not crack it and keep the inserts. if it has to be in a holder i'd have it in the ANACS since they'll attribute it and add that to the insert.

al h. >>



Great response Al---I agree 100%, but I think NGC will attribute it also