Bottom line: PCGS, by slabbing these things, demonstrated with ringing finality that they will go where the wild goose goes. It's very disappointing and probably not very smart. It was a fairly craven business decision done at the expense of this sort of fallout, and I'm sure the shadow will follow them for time eternal--those slabs are not going away.
I would have been deeply impressed if I'd read that PCGS had refused to do this--and given them a wide berth if they chose to brag about it. Alas, I think Jiminy Cricket jumped on the shoulder of one or two of its executives, and these guys smacked him off, put an invoice in his place, and grinned merrily on the way to the CFO's office. It was not a breach of ethics, but it pushed the threshold of morality, and those two traits are very much intertwined. Over the years, the resulting PR will be like Chinese water torture, dripping away at them, and eventually it will surpass whatever went on the balance sheet after they signed the deal.
If I were PCGS, I wouldn't have touched those coins with a 10-foot pole.
I have only found some news articles stating that silver eagles were from the other WTC buildings, not necessarily the 2 towers. Anyone with more info to read more about this?
I live in Kearny, NJ which is about 15 miles due west of ground zero. The towers and for that matter the New York skyline are prominent from many areas in town including where my kids play ball. I saw the towers burn in 2001. I donated money and blood during the period after 9/11 and continue to give blood now. I as an electrician also worked restoring the path train service between Exchange Place in Jersey City and World Trade Center. By coincidence my birthday happens to be 9/11/62 and I still cry in the weeks leading up to my birthday. It is a terrible thing when you can't be happy on that day. I purchased one gem uncirculated 2001 SAE WTC coin for each of my four boys. I want them to be able to hold something in their hand and remember what happened. As I side note my oldest boy who writes much poetry wrote many on this subject. He sent some to local and national political leaders and received nice responses in the months following the tragedy.
<< <i>silver eagles were from the other WTC buildings, not necessarily the 2 towers. >>
That is true, the vault the silver was recovered from was from one of the other buildings in the complex, not the two towers themselves.
<< <i>I would have been deeply impressed if I'd read that PCGS had refused to do this >>
Yes it would have been etter, but their name had already been smeared into by Collectors Universe. The original "Death Coins" were produced by Collectors Universe not PCGS, but they used PCGS slab shells that had PCGS's logo on them. Once that had ben done and most everyone aleady thought that PCGS was responsible for them they probably figured "If we're going to get blamed anyway, we might as well get the profit everyone thinks we're getting."
"The "alternative" would have been to return them to circulation. Why would anyone want to celebrate such a despicable act of terrorism by claiming ownership of such a slab?"
The only thing more disgusting than these ever being sold in the first place is the fact that people actually bought them, although the wonderful sales people that pushed these probably used the fact that some of the proceeds were going to charity as part of their sales pitch.
I have posted this before sorry if you have already read it, I have a WTC coin and it doesnt matter to me whether or not anyone likes or dislikes them.:
<< <i>I have one that was given to me by the widow of a fireman on NYFD Rescue 1. It was given to her by the chief of the NYFD. He was a very good friend of mine and I will cherish this coin as long as I live. He paid the ultimate price for this coin. >>
"Well here's another nice mess you have gotten me into" Oliver Hardy 1930
<< <i>Yes it would have been etter, but their name had already been smeared into by Collectors Universe. The original "Death Coins" were produced by Collectors Universe not PCGS, but they used PCGS slab shells that had PCGS's logo on them. Once that had ben done and most everyone aleady thought that PCGS was responsible for them they probably figured "If we're going to get blamed anyway, we might as well get the profit everyone thinks we're getting." >>
The Kennedy half dollar was made to honor President Kennedy...and it was quickly done after his death! Now is the Kennedy half dollar in Honor of Kennedy the President or his assassination! If Kennedy had not been assassinated would the Kennedy half dollar be minted in 1964? I do not believe so. We can all look back and say we have all profited from the blood of others...it is known as History and it will be forever from the past generations to the generations that will follow who will be touched in someway by history....and the blood spilled by others....all history books you read in school...who made money from those!
Disaster holds fascination with people.. I would love to own a handbill from the production of Mr. Bluebeard from the Iroquois theatre, but because it has such interesting history and is "spooky". "Death coins" are spooky too-- people have always tried to remember disasters. You can still buy pieces of the Hindenburg online.
The only thing I have a problem with is that ghastly promotion of the "Freedom Dollar" minted with "Silver taken from the world trade center" that Daniel Carr designed. It was a horrific grab for money and absolutely disgusting. Thankfully, our US Goverment and most consumers agreed, and the coin ads were pulled.
Those coins were in the vaults at the WTC...they withstood the blast...did anyone ever think it could be a symbol of we're still standing...and they may have knocked us down...but they did not kill us all...the coins could actually be looked upon as a symbol of the American Spirit.
Disgusting idea, and PCGS should know better than to slab them. Unfortunately, noone in control there seems to be making decisions based on anything other than scrounging a few extra bucks.
Whats the big deal,there coins. They made a 9-11 commerative out of silver recoverd from the vaults of ground zero, i never heard any complaing about this. There is nothing wrong here, in fact the people may being doing a good thing by giving the familys a little something to rember there loved ones on, a coin of sentimental value. a little keepsake if you will. Anyone who thinks this is horific just dosnet understand that the coins are not a attemp to get rich of the terroist attck, but a chance to perserve the coins that servived and give the familys a little something to grasp at. plus the money went to help 9-11 familys. Dont just jump the gun,think before you shoot.
I think that PCGS did a great thing and it gave people a little piece of history to put in their pocket. Death coins, what a bunch of BS. This is one coin that will never let you forget.
Did the WSJ donate their profits from writing about this to charity? Papers write about controversial issues, it doesn't matter which side of the issue you're on, you sell papers. PCGS provided a valuable service by certifying actual recovery coins. Without this, every scammer would be selling bogus WTC coins on streetcorners. Did the construction companies who dug the rubble donate their profits to charity?
I don't like people trying to tell others when they should give their profits to charity. Charity should be voluntary.
I don't own any of the WTC dollars (not that I think it is taboo or in poor taste) as most who have posted here seem to. However, I do own a set of the Veterans Comm Silvers. I got them for several reasons both personal and historical. The main coin in this set depicts The Veitnam Veterans Wall which is a giant tombstone to honor those who fell. Some will scream that it is not the same thing but looks as tho our own government is not above profiting from death (nor do I have any core values as a human being either apparently since I own them). It seems easy to label these coins (WTC coins) as death coins, as they were actually at the location of the tradegy. Yet the intent of these coins (regardless of the sellers') by their end buyers is what matters to me. I think a lot of end buyers bought them for personal reasons or as a memorial to those who fell. I think I will call them WTC Comm Dollars and while I may agree with some odf the ideals about these coins being sold in bad taste I will reserve that to the sellers' who were involved strictly for the profits. As far as the grading company, better the coin be authenticated i suppose and as for the end buyers. You have reasons for wanting the coins and as long as they are not profit driven, you should not be made to feel horrible for owning one.
I worked at the World Trade Center for 10 years. Personally, I knew over 100 people who perished.
In my opinion, there are many people throughout the world who emotionally still want or need to connect in some small way to those people lost in this tragedy. If people who collect these coins share their sentiment with others, and that enables them to either heal in some small way, or to honor those people--in my opinion, that's wonderful.
Given the extent of the devastation, it's amazing to me any coins stored there survived. So those that did, I imagine should have special significance.
I don't know anything about whether portions of the sales went to any charity whatsoever. It would be wonderful if some did--there are a lot of extemely worthy ones that were set up to aid the families of those lost--many of them have made a real difference.
A friend of mine who's a fireman gave me a rusted bolt which I keep tucked away in my closet at home. I happened to look at it for the first time in over a year this past Sunday. Other than that, I have the memories of many fine friends and co-workers. I personally don't have any need of a coin to evoke their memory.
The great thing about this hobby is you can collect what you want!
Comments
--Severian the Lame
I would have been deeply impressed if I'd read that PCGS had refused to do this--and given them a wide berth if they chose to brag about it. Alas, I think Jiminy Cricket jumped on the shoulder of one or two of its executives, and these guys smacked him off, put an invoice in his place, and grinned merrily on the way to the CFO's office. It was not a breach of ethics, but it pushed the threshold of morality, and those two traits are very much intertwined. Over the years, the resulting PR will be like Chinese water torture, dripping away at them, and eventually it will surpass whatever went on the balance sheet after they signed the deal.
If I were PCGS, I wouldn't have touched those coins with a 10-foot pole.
Example at eBay
NSDR - Life Member
SSDC - Life Member
ANA - Pay As I Go Member
that matter the New York skyline are prominent from many areas in town including where
my kids play ball. I saw the towers burn in 2001. I donated money and blood during the
period after 9/11 and continue to give blood now. I as an electrician also worked restoring
the path train service between Exchange Place in Jersey City and World Trade Center. By
coincidence my birthday happens to be 9/11/62 and I still cry in the weeks leading up to my
birthday. It is a terrible thing when you can't be happy on that day.
I purchased one gem uncirculated 2001 SAE WTC coin for each of my four boys. I want them to
be able to hold something in their hand and remember what happened. As I side note my oldest
boy who writes much poetry wrote many on this subject. He sent some to local and national
political leaders and received nice responses in the months following the tragedy.
<< <i>silver eagles were from the other WTC buildings, not necessarily the 2 towers. >>
That is true, the vault the silver was recovered from was from one of the other buildings in the complex, not the two towers themselves.
<< <i>I would have been deeply impressed if I'd read that PCGS had refused to do this >>
Yes it would have been etter, but their name had already been smeared into by Collectors Universe. The original "Death Coins" were produced by Collectors Universe not PCGS, but they used PCGS slab shells that had PCGS's logo on them. Once that had ben done and most everyone aleady thought that PCGS was responsible for them they probably figured "If we're going to get blamed anyway, we might as well get the profit everyone thinks we're getting."
Similarly, I have no beef with the people who sell those disgusting White Castle hamburgers. >>
Wheres the beef
The only thing more disgusting than these ever being sold in the first place is the fact that people actually bought them, although the wonderful sales people that pushed these probably used the fact that some of the proceeds were going to charity as part of their sales pitch.
Face the facts..........if there is enough money involved TPGs will slab anything.
<< <i>I have one that was given to me by the widow of a fireman on NYFD Rescue 1. It was given to her by the chief of the NYFD. He was a very good friend of mine and I will cherish this coin as long as I live. He paid the ultimate price for this coin. >>
BST successful dealings with:MsMorrisine, goldman86
I will ask this : Isn't it odd that PCGS will pedigree a silver round as a WTC coin, but not the Cheerios Sacagawea ?
How do you spell : "duh" ?
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
There are a very limited number of Cherrio dollars but thousands of World Trade Center crap coins.
The TPGs would slab a 57 Buick if you had 1000+ of them.
<< <i>Yes it would have been etter, but their name had already been smeared into by Collectors Universe. The original "Death Coins" were produced by Collectors Universe not PCGS, but they used PCGS slab shells that had PCGS's logo on them. Once that had ben done and most everyone aleady thought that PCGS was responsible for them they probably figured "If we're going to get blamed anyway, we might as well get the profit everyone thinks we're getting." >>
That mitigates my feelings...a little.
<< <i>Is this really any different than the 1857 gold coins? People died on that ship too. >>
Time PLUS tragedy = marketing opportunity, and comedy.
The only thing I have a problem with is that ghastly promotion of the "Freedom Dollar" minted with "Silver taken from the world trade center" that Daniel Carr designed. It was a horrific grab for money and absolutely disgusting. Thankfully, our US Goverment and most consumers agreed, and the coin ads were pulled.
Warning: May induce vomiting.
Mr. Sherman said "What's the alternative? Bury them in [the] ground or destroy them?"
Based on the fact that the coins were good enough to be slabbed, they were obviously not damaged why would they have to be buried or destroyed?
No, it was a much better idea to slab the 6.00 dollar coins and for the marketers to sell them for close to $50.00 each.
K S
Anyone who thinks this is horific just dosnet understand that the coins are not a attemp to get rich of the terroist attck, but a chance to perserve the coins that servived and give the familys a little something to grasp at. plus the money went to help 9-11 familys.
Dont just jump the gun,think before you shoot.
Neither does WHITE CASTLE!
<< <i>Why bring this dead thread up? It was originally started on: Wednesday August 06, 2003
Perhaps there was a dearth of controversy around here.
Obscurum per obscurius
<< <i>Why bring this dead thread up? It was originally started on: Wednesday August 06, 2003 >>
. . . . . & was brought back again 3/06. i think the sentiments are current still
K S
If on the other hand, PCGS priced them knowingly making a profit & not donating a major part of it, I'd be a very unhappy stockholder.
K S
<< <i>where can i buy some 1st strike death coins? >>
Ouch. I think you've earned this:
Window or Aisle seat?
I don't like people trying to tell others when they should give their profits to charity. Charity should be voluntary.
--jerry
<< <i>I don't like people trying to tell others when they should give their profits to charity. Charity should be voluntary. >>
Well put.
Just my naroow minded opinion.
"The Villain"
Shiba Rescue Organization
A Shiba Inu is a terrible thing to waste!
I worked at the World Trade Center for 10 years. Personally, I knew over 100 people who perished.
In my opinion, there are many people throughout the world who emotionally still want or need to connect in some small way to those people lost in this tragedy. If people who collect these coins share their sentiment with others, and that enables them to either heal in some small way, or to honor those people--in my opinion, that's wonderful.
Given the extent of the devastation, it's amazing to me any coins stored there survived. So those that did, I imagine should have special significance.
I don't know anything about whether portions of the sales went to any charity whatsoever. It would be wonderful if some did--there are a lot of extemely worthy ones that were set up to aid the families of those lost--many of them have made a real difference.
A friend of mine who's a fireman gave me a rusted bolt which I keep tucked away in my closet at home. I happened to look at it for the first time in over a year this past Sunday. Other than that, I have the memories of many fine friends and co-workers. I personally don't have any need of a coin to evoke their memory.
The great thing about this hobby is you can collect what you want!
All the best-
53BKid
<< <i>This is one coin that will never let you forget. >>
i don't need a chunk of expensive pla$tic to help me remember 911
K S