Guess the grade on my freshly graded Frankie...

LucyBop · July 31, 2003 8:19AM

This 51d was sent in economy grading......... I just opened the package....... Guess what Grade Frankie came back?

jonesy · July 31, 2003 8:21AM

AU58??

hookedoncoins · July 31, 2003 8:21AM

MS65FB

-Jarrett Roberts

LucyBop · July 31, 2003 8:23AM

<< AU58?? >>

ARE YOU CALLING ME MADMARTY??????

paigowjohnny · July 31, 2003 8:23AM

MS65 FBLABOBH (full bell lines and big ol' bald head)

lablover · July 31, 2003 8:24AM

MS66FBL

jeffnpcb · July 31, 2003 8:24AM

AU55 FBL?

MadMarty · July 31, 2003 8:26AM

65FBL

Louis · July 31, 2003 8:26AM

MS65 FBL

theboz11 · July 31, 2003 8:27AM

63 FB

cherrypickincoin · July 31, 2003 8:27AM

On second thought, I'm goin' with 64 FBL after lookin' at the reverse, too many hits on the Bell and on the field behind Frankie on the obverse, maybe a 65 FBL.

bearcave · July 31, 2003 8:29AM

63 FBL

Tonelover · July 31, 2003 8:31AM

MS-64 FBL

Bikingnut · July 31, 2003 8:38AM

Strong strike, looks like full lines so MS66FBL.

ohbaby · July 31, 2003 8:41AM

MS70 FBL ACG service?

If PCGS, MS66 FBL

freakycoinfreak · July 31, 2003 8:42AM

I'd call it MS63 without FBL, but PCGS probably called it MS64 FBL.

Bear · July 31, 2003 8:43AM

MS-63 FBL

LucyBop · July 31, 2003 8:48AM

This one did come back GEM.... A solid strike... for those that said a few too many hits for a ms66, your correct..... Its a solid ms65fbl that is a few hits away from a ms66...... Remember, ms66's can and often do have a few ticks...... Ms67's are very close to perfection.... I have to wonder if there will ever be a ms68 Frankie graded by PCGs... doubtful....

freakycoinfreak · July 31, 2003 8:51AM

If that coin came back GEM then I would never buy a PCGS graded Franklin without seeing it first. That coin has too many marks on the front and a bunch of scrapes on the back. There is also a big hit on the lower bell lines that should prevent it from getting the FBL designation.

You should send that coin back to PCGS and ask them to grade it properly. I would be horrified if I purchased a MS65FBL Franklin and that is the coin that arrived.

GAT · July 31, 2003 8:54AM

BBed for not being FBH (Full Bald Head).

LucyBop · July 31, 2003 9:01AM

This one is solid..... The pictures are large so the hits are exagerated..... The bell Lines are solid and the ticks that the photo shows are not really visable to the naked eye..... This one has very nice luster and is solid...... Also, the rim toning is really nice and I didn't do a good job of capturing it with a photo...

MadMarty · July 31, 2003 9:03AM

Just show us the slab!!!!

FC57Coins · July 31, 2003 9:08AM

MS64FBL - the rub on the bell pushed it back for me - otherwise very nice coin!

DCAMFranklin · July 31, 2003 9:26AM

<< MS64FBL - the rub on the bell pushed it back for me - otherwise very nice coin!

>>

I'm in complete agreement, Frank. That is a reverse that should hurt a coin's grade. Lot of commotion on that reverse. I do like the rim colors. It is a nice portrait, though there are some hits in the obverse fields.

Congrats Lucy.

LucyBop · July 31, 2003 9:29AM

This one has really good eye appeal when seen in person.... that did help this coin...., the stuff on the bell is there, however this one also has some very clean fields... not a highend 65 but a solid one....

Ronyahski · July 31, 2003 11:08AM

Back on the boards after a couple months hiatus.

I grade the pic a 65FBL. Just because there is a tick on the bell lines doesn not automatically take a coin out of FBL. You can see the lines running completely through.

Great luster for a 51-D. The more luster, the more ticks show (especially on a pic, let alone the coin), and they don't seem enough to take out of 65. Lots of comments on the hits on the design, the hit that bothers me the most is in the left obverse field, they are important as well.

Good eye appeal for a 51-D. Try to find a nicer one, a very tough date.

HK doesn't give herself enough credit for the quality of her pics, I think they are fantastic, wish I could do the same.

doops · July 31, 2003 2:38PM

<< If that coin came back GEM then I would never buy a PCGS graded Franklin without seeing it first. That coin has too many marks on the front and a bunch of scrapes on the back. There is also a big hit on the lower bell lines that should prevent it from getting the FBL designation.

You should send that coin back to PCGS and ask them to grade it properly. I would be horrified if I purchased a MS65FBL Franklin and that is the coin that arrived. >>

fruitycudfruity, what would you know ?
oh, i forgot, you are the other 5 trolls on here too
so yep, you're still a leetle pudboy and dont really know NOTHING about franklins,even though your
multiple identities would indicate you might possibly...well YOU DONT !
crawl back in your little hole on this id and SHUT IT !
and leave the chick alone or pay the price your royal pudness of puke

doops · July 31, 2003 2:51PM

the 66 satin obverse with the 64++ rev without the hit on the lower lines being too deep nets a
rock-solid 65fbl at pcgs every time....

ChrisTucker · July 31, 2003 3:13PM

66FBL, before I looked....

MadMonk · August 1, 2003 1:39AM

Way to go Lucy! I just love it when a collector hits a home run!

KlectorKid · August 1, 2003 1:52AM

Dont mind freaky hes still a bit sore from the NumisEd thread.

robertpr · August 1, 2003 1:56AM

Disclaimer: I haven't yet read any of the other replies...

With that said, from the photos first of all I believe the coin at one time recieved a light cleaning. There are very nice strong bell lines on it, but a hit right across those bell lines in the leftmost quadrant of the lower set. There is also a noticeable hit above the second set of bell lines and to the left of the crack. On the obverse, there are some noticeable scrapes (staple damage from a nearby 2x2?) behind Frankie's head. There are also various minor hits on the coin elsewhere, most notably on the Liberty bell. The toning is neutral bordering on unattractive, to me anyway. I'd say, MS63FBL despite the hit across the bell lines.

LucyBop · August 1, 2003 2:07AM

Tough for a coin to have cleaning that I pulled from a original mint set that I have owned for years.... I'm looking at the coin right now, no cleaning.

KlectorKid · August 1, 2003 2:08AM

Take a look at a morgan dollar, easy to grade. Does that look like an ms-63 or 2 morgan? I have the same problem some times I seem to undergrade them but I found if I compare that coin to an easy to grade coin I can make sure I'm not being to hard on it. I think it looks like an ms-65 morgan easy. Heres and MS-63.

Gilbert · August 1, 2003 2:09AM

Nice '51-D Lucille
Initially I considered (based on Franklin grading) that the OBVERSE looks purt near 66, and of course it does adhere to the PCGS FBL standard. Like you said though, a tick or two (and 1951 strike characteristics) preclude the 66 grade.

freakycoinfreak,
If I were to take a guess, I would guess you are NOT a Franklin half collector OR at least not boned up on how they are graded by PCGS/NGC.

It IS a larger, heavier coin, without much intricate detail and prone to bagmarks - most reputable grading companies take this into consideration in assigning grades.

One SHOULD become familiar with how a company grades, and adjust their expectations accordingly. If you expect more appeal on your Franklins, then you need to be looking a select or superb gem graded specimens. The adjective GEM, isn't as literal as it once was.

edited to correct typo: I meant the obverse looked about 66 AND I forgot to include for freaky's benefit THE OBVERSE usually carries the grade.

CLASSICS · August 1, 2003 2:16AM

looks like a nice ms65, with full bell lines....

LucyBop · August 1, 2003 2:16AM

here is my 51D in a ms66fbl..........

robertpr · August 1, 2003 11:15AM

Lucy,

I said from the photo and the usual disclaimers do apply. The reason I thought the coin had been cleaned was because of the toning pattern above and below the bell on the reverse. It could be the lighting though, or impurities in the metal that caused it to tone in such a way. If you pulled it from an original set though, I apologize for my mistake.

My other comments do stand though. That coin should not be in a gem holder. I stand by my assessment of MS63FBL.

Your '51-D looks supurb, with blazing luster, minimal marks, and attractive toning. If it didn't have the hits right in the middle portion of the liberty bell, and the touch of friction on Franklin's cheek and hair curl, it would be a blazing MS67 GEM all day long. To me, the coin should be in a 64 holder, or a low end 65 would even be plausable. The hits on the liberty bell though are too distracting for it to be believable in a 66 holder. This is, of course, just from the pics and again, the usual disclaimers apply.

Now don't get me wrong, I think you have a great eye and outstanding taste Lucy, but of all the series that PCGS (and NGC for that matter) grades, Franklins are the biggest crapshoot. I love this series, and have a full collection myself. But I think your grades on these two examples are a touch high. Don't you think so?

LucyBop · August 1, 2003 12:02PM

<< Franklins are the biggest crapshoot. I love this series, and have a full collection myself. But I think your grades on these two examples are a touch high. Don't you think so?
>>

we'll simply have to agree to disagree..... In my opinion, Franklins are very far from being crap shoots........

LucyBop · August 1, 2003 12:05PM

as one that has held 6 ms67fbl's and owned three, even these have hits..... though very very few and they are hard to find. A flawless coin would be a ms70, then on down to 69, 68.... It is very doubtful a ms68 will ever be made... wouldn't that be something..?

MadMarty · August 1, 2003 12:08PM

Give them hell, Lucy!!!

LucyBop · August 1, 2003 12:14PM

naw..... we will not always agree... I also have the privilage of seeing this one in person... that makes a difference...

robertpr · August 1, 2003 12:19PM

Yes seeing them does make a difference. Sometimes the pics can bring out some of the problems more so than seeing the coin in person. Franklins are very very tough to find without hits on them in prominant locations. They're also tough to find attractively toned. But they're relatively common, well ok they're tough to find but not supertough, with supurb blazing lustre, and when you do find one of those blazers, boy will your heart go pitter-patter!

LucyBop · August 1, 2003 12:36PM

MadMarty is make it look easy, finding those super tough GEM 61p's!!!

doops · August 1, 2003 1:57PM

<< as one that has held 6 ms67fbl's and owned three, even these have hits..... though very very few and they are hard to find. A flawless coin would be a ms70, then on down to 69, 68.... It is very doubtful a ms68 will ever be made... wouldn't that be something..? >>

i know where several raw 68+fbl's are from 55,56,57pd & 58pd's are with God color.....cant you hear
the angels singing......ahhhhh ha ha ha ha ahhhhhhh ah ah ha ah ha ahhhhhhhhh ding...ding....ding...

LucyBop · August 1, 2003 2:11PM

More Doops for me!

MrKelso · August 1, 2003 7:54PM

A nice piece.

Guess the grade on my freshly graded Frankie...

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