Shills on Teletrade

coolkarma · July 14, 2003 1:29PM

After watching the auctions on Teletrade tonight, I wondered if anyone else had stories of obvious "shilling" on Teletrade. I'll define "shilling" as:

1) a coin is bid to a price about 50% greater than the price a respectable, full service dealer is offering the coin for;
2) the coin does not sell.

In my opinion, tonight, a 1971s PR69 DCam nickel clearly was being shilled. It was bid to $3800 and did not sell. However, it is available for $2150 (or less) from a very respectable dealer.

Since I'm not in the market for a 1971, this doesn't bother me too much. However, it has occurred for coins that I was seriously interested in (e.g., two 1942 Type 1 PR67 nickels on June 29). So, I was wondering, how prevalent is such behavior on Teletrade? Comments appreciated.

sinin1 · July 14, 2003 2:03PM

when coins get consigned at Teletrade, the seller can bid in a buy-back price before the auction starts. In this case they may have entered $3800 and the price would show the bidding activity you described. It may be a case of the buyer not knowing the current market (but it did cost the seller close to $400 to list tonight)

or the seller may have been actively bidding against someone, and would have cost him even more.

poptopsRus · July 15, 2003 8:16AM

Teletrade also puts in a starting price for the coin and sometimes they start it way to high. I've had this happen many times on coins I've consigned to Teletrade.

psxchelly · July 15, 2003 11:49AM

wow, dont even get me started on Teletrade... they lost me as a customer LONG ago..... I was top bidder on 2 coins in the same night, then about 14 mintues AFTER the auction was supposed to end, I was magically not the top bidder.

when i called to complain, the representative said she would get back to me to verify evverything, but never did. when i called her back, the many times i did, she would not take my call.

that place is a joke and a rip off. possibly even scam.

grip · July 17, 2003 8:11AM

psxchelly
Same thing here,never again.Al

Clankeye · July 18, 2003 2:59AM

I watched a coin with an obvious ridiculous start price get bid up an additional three increments on Wednesday, only to be finally reported as not sold.

No one was legitimately bidding on the coin at it's start level.

(Dana Carvey as George Bush): Teletrade--not gonna do it. Wouldn't be prudent.

cosmicdebris · July 18, 2003 4:51AM

numonebuyer · July 19, 2003 1:19AM

I have never used Teletrade, but shill bidding is a problem (to some degree) at ALL auctions. So, why should Teletrade be any different.

Numonebuyer

Clankeye · July 19, 2003 2:22AM

<< <i>So, why should Teletrade be any different. >>

Well, I will give the Bay of Eee at least credit for this, you know who sets the start price. In most cases you can see who is bidding on the coin. If there is obvious shill bidding, with a little work you can usually detect it. You know who is selling the coin (at least to a degree), and ultimately there is some kind of record of who bid what and when.

And I certainly agree that ALL auctions are open to manipulation, but with Teletrade it's all in the dark.

Clankeye

Clankeye · July 19, 2003 9:23AM

Wow! This is still at the top of the forum. And I thought The Kingdom of Sleep was sleepy!

Is it possible nothing registers in The Registery Forum? Ha! A little outsider humor there. ....sorry. I'll be quiet again.

Clankeye

mdwoods · July 19, 2003 11:39AM

Is it possible nothing registers in The Registery Forum? Ha! A little outsider humor there. ....sorry. I'll be quiet again.

Please sir. Try to display a quiet dignity when visiting the Regisitry Forum. Have you not heard of Forum Decorum?

Clankeye · July 19, 2003 12:21PM

Whoa!!! A voice!

You scared me, MD. I thought I was the only one here.

What are you doing? Thought it was your birthday.

Carl

mdwoods · July 19, 2003 2:06PM

Whoa!!! A voice!

Sorry to startle you Carl. I fell asleep after my birthday feast for a couple hours. I'll be awake all night.

monsterman · August 1, 2003 2:19PM

teletrade is known in the dealer community as a "dumping ground " for the inventory that wont sell .............all they have is junk.....and i assure you that if you buy 20 coins there you will loose money at sell time................i hope most of you know " dealer slock " goes begging at 80% of bid ............so if you buy on the teletrade sled ride you locked in a 25 % losss most of the time

gregg

ohbaby · August 2, 2003 12:26AM

I thought Teletrade went out of business last year!! It's certainly a back water of coin trading

braddick · August 2, 2003 2:46AM

<< <i>teletrade is known in the dealer community as a "dumping ground " for the inventory that wont sell .............all they have is junk.....and i assure you that if you buy 20 coins there you will loose money at sell time................i hope most of you know " dealer slock " goes begging at 80% of bid ............so if you buy on the teletrade sled ride you locked in a 25 % losss most of the time gregg >>

Gregg, that's an interesting assessment of Teletrade.
Do you find that to be more the case these days than Teletrade of the past? I ask because I used to pick up some pretty neat coins via Teletrade, but it's been a couple years, or a bit more, since I've done so.
Also, what about Teletrade's Rainbow Sale? I've heard some of these are pretty coins. Does your opinion also cover these specialty sales?

ClausUrch · August 2, 2003 6:07AM

My personal experience with TeleTrade as of late has been very good. Not only has the quality of my winnings been first rate, my final win prices have been more than reasonable. Last month I won 2 PCGS graded MS70 modern commemorative gold coins for less than half what they are going for on E-Bay. I would also rather return an item to them than an E-Bay seller if needed. Just my experience.

monsterman · August 2, 2003 9:36AM

>>>>Last month I won 2 PCGS graded MS70 modern commemorative gold coins for less than half what they are going for on E-Bay>>>>

thats a very unsettling thought..........so where is that market....arnt there price sheets to guide you

djm · August 2, 2003 11:39AM

I have found the same thing, you can buy PCGS 69 coins off Teletrade for far less money than raw coins on eBay. Do people actually think they are going to find a raw coin on eBay that will grade 70??

segoja · August 3, 2003 10:07AM

Teletrade does have some junk.

I never ever bid on the ICG coins. Don't even look at them.

I read the description very closely and view the scans. This helps a lot.

After that I keep 7 of 10 coins I get from them.

What I keep is mostly PQ or upgrade material (beleive it or not).

The return policy is pretty good, and that cost is easily offset by the gains on what I keep.

Just one persons experience.

roadrunner · August 3, 2003 10:33AM

I don't know about shill bidding but something is amiss in their gold auctions (such as tonight). There's just no way buyers are paying such strong levels for certified generic gold when you can get it almost anywhere else for less. I suspect strong reserves on the part of Teletrade since they likely own the coins too. While you can occasionally find a good coin the odds are 95% or better against you unless we are talking slabbed moderns.

roadrunner

jacktheknife · August 4, 2003 3:50AM

I agree, I would be cautious on Teletrade. I wonder about shills on some lots. On the flip side however, I picked up a Pop. 7 1956 Lincoln PCGS MS-67RD a couple weeks ago for well under the going rate for this type of coin. Maybe they are trying to "protect" coins they own while letting others go.

Datentype · August 4, 2003 4:21AM

Let's rename the Teleshill

sinin1 · August 5, 2003 12:10AM

if you go to the "prices realized" section, you can see which coins sold (if no-sale or buy-back, they disappear from the listing)

it looks like between 25-30% of Sundays Gold Express changed hands

whether these were consignors (who paid buyback) or the consignor/owner is Teletrade is a good question

Datentype · August 5, 2003 12:49AM

It's a scam but what bugs me is PCGS seems to overgrade the coins i.e. thanks for the business and this runs up the sales $ volume on Teletrade. It just seems to me that they often run overgraded if they are submitted through Teleshill. I quit sending in coins that I personally had sent in to pcgs to Teleshill a couple of years back when they began asking $5 per coin listing plus final value fees.

sinin1 · August 5, 2003 8:57AM

I just got the flyer in the mail today for their Sunday gold auction 2 days ago - some nice pictures, but a little late to entice me to bid.

mdwoods · August 5, 2003 11:10AM

If there is a reserve, it may appear as though someone is bidding against you when it is the computer which keeps raising the bid until the reserve is met or you quit bidding. Although, there could very well be someone else bidding against you. If no one bids high enough to reach the reserve, the coin doesn't sell. They just don't bother to tell you that there is a reserve and the opening bid may be well under that.