"I think a PSA, SCG or such graded trading card is like an automobile in good working order: it's dangerous when the wrong person is using it. While I have a few beefs with the grading companies, I don't blame them for all the bad drivers on the road.
Legitimate card graders are offering the worthwhile service of giving an indepenant and educated (I didn't infallable) opinion on a card. Nothing less and nothing more. The problem is that that many individuals, and perhaps the hobby as a whole, takes their services as something more."
I know this topic has been beaten to death, but this guy's argument (Hankrkon) sums it up nicely.
Currently collecting the Nolan Ryan Basic and Topps Player sets.
For those who do not want to get attacked to death by the Network 54 pop-up ads, here ya go:
Reason #10: They will over-inflate the prices of vintage cards. Reason #9: Only the richest of rich dealers or auction houses will eventually control the marketplace. Reason #8: They create a false sense of value. (i.e. If it's graded then it's real. Case in point, the "Mr. Mint" Doyle, New York T206..Oops ) Reason #7: They create a false sense of perceived condition. If it's graded, it can't be trimmed. (Why do some cards float around their plastic prison, while others fit tightly? Reason #6: If a card isn't graded, then there must be something wrong with it. Reason #5:Fat Cat Dealers submit massive amount of cards to be graded, and are awarded "special grades" for providing their continual revenue stream to their designated grading company. Reason #4:Fraud begins to creep in further to the "slabbing" process as the "criminal element" crack open and substitute lesser grade examples back into the plastic tombs. Reason #3: Companies start grading "worthless" paper cutouts. Reason #2:Slabbed card holders are just plain ugly. Reason #1: The youth of America loses the ability to read...http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=273915354
Actually, I think lists like this are constructive, as they force us to look at ourselves and the hobby. I don't agree with the premise that grading is likely to ruin the hobby, but some of the points made are certainly valid.
For example, #5: even if grading companies are not awarding special grades to preferred dealers, the perception that such behavior goes on has a negative impact on the hobby. DieSeL, anyone?
And #3 is valid: AAA, libertyforall, and other scum are bilking new collectors with their graded magazine cutouts. Such buyers may be ignorant and greedy, but we all were new to the hobby at some point, and thus should have some sympathy. New collectors are the lifeblood of the hobby; if they get turned off by con-artists, the hobby will suffer.
Reason #9 is silly; hasn't the poster heard of eBay?
I could go on and on, but, mercifully, I won't. The Network 54 thread is nothing for supporters of grading to be ashamed of; as long as it doesn't get into the my-grading-company-is-better-than-your-grading-company argument, it's all constructive criticism.
Top ten reasons why card grading may ruin my business:
10 I can't pass off my trimmed cards as unaltered 9 I can't pass off my recolored cards as unaltered 8 I can't pass off my bleached cards as unaltered 7 I can't pass off my power erased cards as unaltered 6 I can't pass off my reprints as originals 5 I can't call my VG cards NM and sell them for 10x what they're worth 4 I can't nitpick (sp?) the cards you want to sell me down from their legitimate NM-MT condition so I can pay VG prices 3 I can't force you to sell your cards through me since you can now sell on eBay, regardless of your level of ability to grade cards. 2 I can no longer pass off all my thousands of beautiful top loaders and screw down holders when I sell you my cards snce they now put them in those ugly graded card holders. 1 My all powerful dealer network cartel built up since the late 1970s is crumbling before my very eyes!!!
This post is an instant classic. If they had a POM award here, I think you'd win for this beauty hands down.
I've suspected for a while that the reason why clowns like T.J. Shwartz are/were so against grading is because they're no longer able to trim down their vast stores of 57 Mantles, etc., and sell them for 15x of what they paid. And nobody can argue that card grading serves an essential function for all transactions conducted over the Internet.
In any case, your post said precisely what I was going to say, only with a good deal more zest and humor. Bravo.
Gemint, You don't need any more sunshine blown up your arse, but that post is truly wonderful. Ignorance was truly blissful for many unscrupulous dealers for a long time...the party's been over for a while now and we have third-party authentication to thank for it. dgf
Terrific post Gemmy! PSA would be wise to use your ideas in their ad campaigns. I have drawer full of "trimmed", "bleached", "altered", "restored", "power erased", "recolored" vintage star cards that I wouldn't have if I had started using PSA earlier.
My complete 1956 Topps baseball set imprisoned and entombed in PSA 8 holders is now worth approximately 8x its raw counterpart (including the grading fees).
<< <i>My complete 1956 Topps baseball set imprisoned and entombed in PSA 8 holders is now worth approximately 8x its raw counterpart (including the grading fees).
NUFF SAID. >>
I really feel sorry for you Scoop. You should immediately crack them out of their holders and sell them to an old school dealer for 20% of Beckett.
I think it is important to understand that not all collectors have bought into card grading and it isn't because they want to scam someone. A case in point is a gentleman that I work with (actually, used to work with him, he recently retired). As a kid he collected 50, 51 and 52 Bowman Baseball. As most of these stories go, his mother (or someone) tossed the cards...so he has been working since the mid-70's to rebuild his sets. He got close to finishing them...but the retirement clock was ticking and he wanted to finish them while he still had his full paycheck coming. He was "forced" to buy graded cards (PSA-8's and -9's and SGC88 and 92's was what he ended up with). He needed these grades to match the rest of his sets.
OK, here's the punch line -- he cracked every single card out of their holders. Yes, he cracked a PSA-9 51B out of its case. He understood the financial implications of this move, and he was OK with it.
He has some of the finest raw sets that I have ever seen...and, as long as he owns them, they will remain raw. My bet is that there are a few more people out there that share his sentiments.
srs1, I don't think any of us are knocking someone if they want to collect raw cards. Afterall, not to many people are willing to spend $5k per to grade out every set. What we are knocking is the comment that professional grading is destroying the hobby. If anything, it's strengthened it. In the case of your collector friend, he was able to be confident that the graded cards he purchased (perhaps sight unseen) were of the quality and authenticity he desired, yet they weren't permanently laminated in a case that couldn't be removed. So he was able to crack them out of their holders and include them in his raw set.
Right on again, Gemmint! Too many honest, unsuspecting, and novice collectors hope for the same from sellers; whether fellow collectors (who innocently or not tend to be biased in overrating their own cards), or dealers (who fall into many categories from hobby enthusiasts themselves all the way down to outright conmen).
The example that srs1 cites shows, precisely, that some, if not many of us are not in this for the $$$$$.
Gemint, I won't argue your points, because I agree with you. Card grading and the internet have greatly improved the hobby (my opinion) but, not everyone feels this way. I don't completely understand why, but I know it isn't always for personal ($$) gain.
The post is absurd. Grading companies have really helped the hobby. Before professional grading it was very frustrating to try and collect high grade cards. Professional grading has made it a lot easier to be as picky as I am. Without the grading companies I think I would have given up collectiong cards because I would be sick of getting overgraded cards. Grading companies have also made the cards more liquid so now anyone can sell their own cards and get market value. Collectors used to have to sell to dealers for pennies on the dollar. Finally, with the registry, collectors can now share their collections with each other. Is there anything better then being able to share your collection with others who care about it?
This discussion does a good job of outlining the pros and cons of grading. Both sides have excellent points, with the strongest anti-grading point, IMHO, being that I truly believe that PSA gives sweetheart grades out either to preferred dealers or for the higher "at show grading" price. I specialize in T205s and have seen WAY TOO MANY overgraded cards out there that pale by comparison to MANY lower graded cards that I submitted. I have acquired a very bad taste in my mouth about the obvious double standard.
As for getting good graded at big shows, I got bad grades at shows to at $35 a pop. I don't believe the price you pay affects the grade. One time I did well though is I had a problem with a card graded at a National so Steve Rocchi gave me 5 free grades and put his intials on the top of my invoice for the free grades. I had them graded on site. Needless to say I got monster grades from that invoice.
PSA gets it right about 90 % of the time. The 'good old boys' selling raw cards get it right about 10 % of the time.
You can either pay the premium for graded cards, or continue to live in your 'dream world', where all your raw cards WOULD be 8's, but you just don't believe in grading.
I don't buy into the "sweetheart deal" rumors. The very worst I can see is a borderline card getting the benifit of the doubt. If they gave NM cards a 9 because of the dealer, it wouldn't take long for the card to reach a third party who promptly takes it back to PSA for buyback. What would PSA say, "I'm sorry, this card was submitted by dealer XYZ who gets sweetheart grades. Therefore, we can't honor the guarantee on that card"? I don't think so. Also, I've bought and viewed many graded cards from dealers who supposedly get these backroom deals and rarely, if ever, saw an overgraded card in their inventory. I think a lot of it comes down to jelousy from some people because some dealers have the raw inventory to submit only the finest examples which results in many 8s, 9s and 10s. BBCExchange is a good example. They cracked a 1970 vending case and ended up getting many 9s and 10s. They even sold the leftovers in raw lots as NM+ and I bought a few and still managed to pick out some 9s from these "leftovers". I also think crazysc has proven (through example invoice numbers) that even though he submits thousands of cards a month, he gets no special grades.
I think alot of times folks don't see the cards that "didn't" make the cut. The example of the 1970 vendor case is right on. 12,000 cards to start with in a sealed case....Why wouldn't you come up with a couple of dozen nice cards. Then 2 dozen cards hit eBay at the same time and there go the rumors. I could retire on the 'bazillion cards the big boys "don't" send in.
Another thought that comes to mind, as I think about collectors that can't seem to understand how anybody gets a handful of 10's..., is a statement a dealer made to me a couple years ago....
"The hardest thing about grading your own cards, is grading your own cards"
Great post Gemmy....
Larry
I LOVE FANCY CURRENCY, pretty girls, Disney Dollars, pretty girls, MPC's, ..did I mention pretty girls???
I think grading has forever damaged the hobby because those cards are artificially inflated to a value based on condition and one that some people have tried to improve for a higher grade and more money. If you have a raw card why not can you say or anyone looking to but it that meets a certain grade? This way you would keep it protected but at the very least it isn't something you have a reason to get a better grade on. The coin hobby suffered a similar fate and one where you really can resubmit for a higher after some alteration to its condition. I met a well known instructor at ANA's grading who said he has dipped a coin for a better grade which means cards or coins that it is about the money. I choose to believe one of the kings in the coin world who said, "There is quality in every grade".
I will say that, while grading was meant to curb alterations, it actually increased them 1,000 fold.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
@AJAY said:
I think grading has forever damaged the hobby because those cards are artificially inflated to a value based on condition and one that some people have tried to improve for a higher grade and more money. If you have a raw card why not can you say or anyone looking to but it that meets a certain grade? This way you would keep it protected but at the very least it isn't something you have a reason to get a better grade on. The coin hobby suffered a similar fate and one where you really can resubmit for a higher after some alteration to its condition. I met a well known instructor at ANA's grading who said he has dipped a coin for a better grade which means cards or coins that it is about the money. I choose to believe one of the kings in the coin world who said, "There is quality in every grade".
First post on the board is a reply to a post from 18 years prior?
Fun one to bump because after 18 years, people are still complaining about the same stuff.
It’s not really a secret that grades don’t matter to me. That probably seems odd but the look of the card is what matters.
Here’s a case in point:
Highest graded:
Mine:
Should I get all bent out of shape because...well...I’m not spelling it out...but should I?
Honestly, I don’t think so. This isn’t a crime against humanity. No, instead, I paid for encapsulation and an opinion and I got one. I could send it in again or send it to someplace else but it’s the same card at the end of the day. Plenty of collectors buy the card and not the holder and in general, people adapt to change and the marketplace knows a good copy when they see one - that, for me, is the key.
I am aware that people live and die by grade as part of the business of selling cards and you have my sympathy (when you miss) and envy (when you hit).
Good luck out there; educate yourselves and buy cards at prices you can afford and you’ll always be happy.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
@1951WheatiesPremium said:
Fun one to bump because after 18 years, people are still complaining about the same stuff.
It’s not really a secret that grades don’t matter to me. That probably seems odd but the look of the card is what matters.
Here’s a case in point:
Highest graded:
Mine:
Should I get all bent out of shape because...well...I’m not spelling it out...but should I?
Honestly, I don’t think so. This isn’t a crime against humanity. No, instead, I paid for encapsulation and an opinion and I got one. I could send it in again or send it to someplace else but it’s the same card at the end of the day. Plenty of collectors buy the card and not the holder and in general, people adapt to change and the marketplace knows a good copy when they see one - that, for me, is the key.
I am aware that people live and die by grade as part of the business of selling cards and you have my sympathy (when you miss) and envy (when you hit).
Good luck out there; educate yourselves and buy cards at prices you can afford and you’ll always be happy.
Great to see that you have both different variations of the back side text of the Dihigo cards in your post here. I still don't know why PSA does not distinguish between Yellow vs. Orange border versions of the Montiel set, or between the different versions of the backs.
@1951WheatiesPremium said:
Fun one to bump because after 18 years, people are still complaining about the same stuff.
It’s not really a secret that grades don’t matter to me. That probably seems odd but the look of the card is what matters.
Here’s a case in point:
Highest graded:
Mine:
Should I get all bent out of shape because...well...I’m not spelling it out...but should I?
Honestly, I don’t think so. This isn’t a crime against humanity. No, instead, I paid for encapsulation and an opinion and I got one. I could send it in again or send it to someplace else but it’s the same card at the end of the day. Plenty of collectors buy the card and not the holder and in general, people adapt to change and the marketplace knows a good copy when they see one - that, for me, is the key.
I am aware that people live and die by grade as part of the business of selling cards and you have my sympathy (when you miss) and envy (when you hit).
Good luck out there; educate yourselves and buy cards at prices you can afford and you’ll always be happy.
Great to see that you have both different variations of the back side text of the Dihigo cards in your post here. I still don't know why PSA does not distinguish between Yellow vs. Orange border versions of the Montiel set, or between the different versions of the backs.
I do have two copies but only the PSA 2 shown is mine. The other is at PSA and is presently in grading. That’s this one, which has lightness to some text in the bottom on the back but is also a really nice example:
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
@1951WheatiesPremium said:
Fun one to bump because after 18 years, people are still complaining about the same stuff.
It’s not really a secret that grades don’t matter to me. That probably seems odd but the look of the card is what matters.
Here’s a case in point:
Highest graded:
Mine:
Should I get all bent out of shape because...well...I’m not spelling it out...but should I?
Honestly, I don’t think so. This isn’t a crime against humanity. No, instead, I paid for encapsulation and an opinion and I got one. I could send it in again or send it to someplace else but it’s the same card at the end of the day. Plenty of collectors buy the card and not the holder and in general, people adapt to change and the marketplace knows a good copy when they see one - that, for me, is the key.
I am aware that people live and die by grade as part of the business of selling cards and you have my sympathy (when you miss) and envy (when you hit).
Good luck out there; educate yourselves and buy cards at prices you can afford and you’ll always be happy.
Great to see that you have both different variations of the back side text of the Dihigo cards in your post here. I still don't know why PSA does not distinguish between Yellow vs. Orange border versions of the Montiel set, or between the different versions of the backs.
I do have two copies but only the PSA 2 shown is mine. The other is at PSA and is presently in grading. That’s this one, which has lightness to some text in the bottom on the back but is also a really nice example:
For that particular set, what you have there in your second one is a very very clean surface to that card; most of them have staining/browning/discoloration.
I hope you're able to find one of the "La Sortija" versions to add to your collection too.
@1951WheatiesPremium said:
Fun one to bump because after 18 years, people are still complaining about the same stuff.
It’s not really a secret that grades don’t matter to me. That probably seems odd but the look of the card is what matters.
Here’s a case in point:
Highest graded:
Mine:
Should I get all bent out of shape because...well...I’m not spelling it out...but should I?
Honestly, I don’t think so. This isn’t a crime against humanity. No, instead, I paid for encapsulation and an opinion and I got one. I could send it in again or send it to someplace else but it’s the same card at the end of the day. Plenty of collectors buy the card and not the holder and in general, people adapt to change and the marketplace knows a good copy when they see one - that, for me, is the key.
I am aware that people live and die by grade as part of the business of selling cards and you have my sympathy (when you miss) and envy (when you hit).
Good luck out there; educate yourselves and buy cards at prices you can afford and you’ll always be happy.
Great to see that you have both different variations of the back side text of the Dihigo cards in your post here. I still don't know why PSA does not distinguish between Yellow vs. Orange border versions of the Montiel set, or between the different versions of the backs.
I do have two copies but only the PSA 2 shown is mine. The other is at PSA and is presently in grading. That’s this one, which has lightness to some text in the bottom on the back but is also a really nice example:
For that particular set, what you have there in your second one is a very very clean surface to that card; most of them have staining/browning/discoloration.
I hope you're able to find one of the "La Sortija" versions to add to your collection too.
A few of these are La Sortija backs; I’d love to finish off the set but at this point it’s getting tough.
my set
empty album
graded stars
The beauty of this set attracted me and I went for the best ‘eye appeal’ I could muster - full borders, all text, mostly clean. Scale slides a little here and there but it’s one of the finest sets ever produced, in my humble opinion. Massive star power with many (most?) athletes still active at the time of release.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
Wow, I actually remember the original thread. I guess I'm not losing my marbles...yet. It was fun seeing King Kellogg's post directly preceding the bump post. Some classic ex-members in this thread.
@gemint said:
Wow, I actually remember the original thread. I guess I'm not losing my marbles...yet.
Hey, your 20th anniversary on the boards passed a couple of weeks ago, and we didn’t even throw ya a party! 🎉🎂
You just did. Thanks! I actually predate my current anniversary. My original ID was 69topps8 but I had some problems logging in after I moved and changed email services. I think I joined originally somewhere between 1998 and 2000.
Grading didn't/won't ruin the hobby, greed and stupidity are the two biggest problems we have, along with the "investors" who have too much money to spend turning the "hobby" into an "investment".
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@DrNguyenVanFalk said:
For those who do not want to get attacked to death by the Network 54 pop-up ads, here ya go:
Reason #10: They will over-inflate the prices of vintage cards.
Reason #9: Only the richest of rich dealers or auction houses will eventually control the marketplace.
Reason #8: They create a false sense of value. (i.e. If it's graded then it's real. Case in point, the "Mr. Mint" Doyle, New York T206..Oops )
Reason #7: They create a false sense of perceived condition. If it's graded, it can't be trimmed. (Why do some cards float around their plastic prison, while others fit tightly?
Reason #6: If a card isn't graded, then there must be something wrong with it.
Reason #5:Fat Cat Dealers submit massive amount of cards to be graded, and are awarded "special grades" for providing their continual revenue stream to their designated grading company.
Reason #4:Fraud begins to creep in further to the "slabbing" process as the "criminal element" crack open and substitute lesser grade examples back into the plastic tombs.
Reason #3: Companies start grading "worthless" paper cutouts.
Reason #2:Slabbed card holders are just plain ugly.
Reason #1: The youth of America loses the ability to read...http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=273915354
Some on that 2003 list have indeed come true or are in progress.
As for the self proclaimed "Mr Mint", even in he early 90's I thought "Mr VG-" was more accurate!
I recall back in the late 90's there as run on T206 Slow Joe Doyle's as certain folks tried to use them to create their own NY Nat'l variants failing then discarding.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Comments
All 10 reasons would have fit then.
Larry
email....emards4457@msn.com
CHEERS!!
"I think a PSA, SCG or such graded trading card is like an automobile in good working order: it's dangerous when the wrong person is using it. While I have a few beefs with the grading companies, I don't blame them for all the bad drivers on the road.
Legitimate card graders are offering the worthwhile service of giving an indepenant and educated (I didn't infallable) opinion on a card. Nothing less and nothing more. The problem is that that many individuals, and perhaps the hobby as a whole, takes their services as something more."
I know this topic has been beaten to death, but this guy's argument (Hankrkon) sums it up nicely.
NAXCOM
Reason #10: They will over-inflate the prices of vintage cards.
Reason #9: Only the richest of rich dealers or auction houses will eventually control the marketplace.
Reason #8: They create a false sense of value. (i.e. If it's graded then it's real. Case in point, the "Mr. Mint" Doyle, New York T206..Oops )
Reason #7: They create a false sense of perceived condition. If it's graded, it can't be trimmed. (Why do some cards float around their plastic prison, while others fit tightly?
Reason #6: If a card isn't graded, then there must be something wrong with it.
Reason #5:Fat Cat Dealers submit massive amount of cards to be graded, and are awarded "special grades" for providing their continual revenue stream to their designated grading company.
Reason #4:Fraud begins to creep in further to the "slabbing" process as the "criminal element" crack open and substitute lesser grade examples back into the plastic tombs.
Reason #3: Companies start grading "worthless" paper cutouts.
Reason #2:Slabbed card holders are just plain ugly.
Reason #1: The youth of America loses the ability to read...http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=273915354
Actually, I think lists like this are constructive, as they force us to look at ourselves and the hobby. I don't agree with the premise that grading is likely to ruin the hobby, but some of the points made are certainly valid.
For example, #5: even if grading companies are not awarding special grades to preferred dealers, the perception that such behavior goes on has a negative impact on the hobby. DieSeL, anyone?
And #3 is valid: AAA, libertyforall, and other scum are bilking new collectors with their graded magazine cutouts. Such buyers may be ignorant and greedy, but we all were new to the hobby at some point, and thus should have some sympathy. New collectors are the lifeblood of the hobby; if they get turned off by con-artists, the hobby will suffer.
Reason #9 is silly; hasn't the poster heard of eBay?
I could go on and on, but, mercifully, I won't. The Network 54 thread is nothing for supporters of grading to be ashamed of; as long as it doesn't get into the my-grading-company-is-better-than-your-grading-company argument, it's all constructive criticism.
POTD = 09/03/2003
Top ten reasons why card grading may ruin my business:
10 I can't pass off my trimmed cards as unaltered
9 I can't pass off my recolored cards as unaltered
8 I can't pass off my bleached cards as unaltered
7 I can't pass off my power erased cards as unaltered
6 I can't pass off my reprints as originals
5 I can't call my VG cards NM and sell them for 10x what they're worth
4 I can't nitpick (sp?) the cards you want to sell me down from their legitimate NM-MT condition so I can pay VG prices
3 I can't force you to sell your cards through me since you can now sell on eBay, regardless of your level of ability to grade cards.
2 I can no longer pass off all my thousands of beautiful top loaders and screw down holders when I sell you my cards snce they now put them in those ugly graded card holders.
1 My all powerful dealer network cartel built up since the late 1970s is crumbling before my very eyes!!!
This post is an instant classic. If they had a POM award here, I think you'd win for this beauty hands down.
I've suspected for a while that the reason why clowns like T.J. Shwartz are/were so against grading is because they're no longer able to trim down their vast stores of 57 Mantles, etc., and sell them for 15x of what they paid. And nobody can argue that card grading serves an essential function for all transactions conducted over the Internet.
In any case, your post said precisely what I was going to say, only with a good deal more zest and humor. Bravo.
Freakin Awesome!!!!!
Dave
One more thing that Brock you keep showing. Ah I could use one in 8. What do ya say.
Dave
LMAO!!!! Best post I have read in a while... You hit the nail on the head! Jeff
You don't need any more sunshine blown up your arse, but that post is truly wonderful. Ignorance was truly blissful for many unscrupulous dealers for a long time...the party's been over for a while now and we have third-party authentication to thank for it.
dgf
<< <i>Gemint
One more thing that Brock you keep showing. Ah I could use one in 8. What do ya say.
Dave >>
Sorry Dave, the best I can offer you is this lovely picture. You can print it, cut it out and send it to AAA for a slam dunk 1 of 1 AAA 10!
Always looking for 1957 Topps BB in PSA 9!
NUFF SAID.
<< <i>My complete 1956 Topps baseball set imprisoned and entombed in PSA 8 holders is now worth approximately 8x its raw counterpart (including the grading fees).
NUFF SAID. >>
I really feel sorry for you Scoop. You should immediately crack them out of their holders and sell them to an old school dealer for 20% of Beckett.
<< <i>Gemmy, maybe at the national we can all bring our sets and have a break-out party!!! >>
Sure thing. I bet some of our favorite veteran dealers would be willing to sponsor the event!
Thanks I needed a good drooooool!!!
Dave
I think it is important to understand that not all collectors have bought into card grading and it isn't because they want to scam someone. A case in point is a gentleman that I work with (actually, used to work with him, he recently retired). As a kid he collected 50, 51 and 52 Bowman Baseball. As most of these stories go, his mother (or someone) tossed the cards...so he has been working since the mid-70's to rebuild his sets. He got close to finishing them...but the retirement clock was ticking and he wanted to finish them while he still had his full paycheck coming. He was "forced" to buy graded cards (PSA-8's and -9's and SGC88 and 92's was what he ended up with). He needed these grades to match the rest of his sets.
OK, here's the punch line -- he cracked every single card out of their holders. Yes, he cracked a PSA-9 51B out of its case. He understood the financial implications of this move, and he was OK with it.
He has some of the finest raw sets that I have ever seen...and, as long as he owns them, they will remain raw. My bet is that there are a few more people out there that share his sentiments.
The example that srs1 cites shows, precisely, that some, if not many of us are not in this for the $$$$$.
Thats funny! I thought the hobby was "saved" not ruined by the reputable card grading companies...jay
Website: http://www.qualitycards.com
PSA gets it right about 90 % of the time.
The 'good old boys' selling raw cards get it right about 10 % of the time.
You can either pay the premium for graded cards,
or continue to live in your 'dream world',
where all your raw cards WOULD be 8's, but you just don't believe in grading.
Dream on ... ignorance is bliss ...
"How about a little fire Scarecrow ?"
I agree with you 100%.
I think alot of times folks don't see the cards that "didn't" make the cut. The example of the 1970 vendor case is right on. 12,000 cards to start with in a sealed case....Why wouldn't you come up with a couple of dozen nice cards. Then 2 dozen cards hit eBay at the same time and there go the rumors. I could retire on the 'bazillion cards the big boys "don't" send in.
Another thought that comes to mind, as I think about collectors that can't seem to understand how anybody gets a handful of 10's..., is a statement a dealer made to me a couple years ago....
"The hardest thing about grading your own cards, is grading your own cards"
Great post Gemmy....
Larry
email....emards4457@msn.com
CHEERS!!
I think grading has forever damaged the hobby because those cards are artificially inflated to a value based on condition and one that some people have tried to improve for a higher grade and more money. If you have a raw card why not can you say or anyone looking to but it that meets a certain grade? This way you would keep it protected but at the very least it isn't something you have a reason to get a better grade on. The coin hobby suffered a similar fate and one where you really can resubmit for a higher after some alteration to its condition. I met a well known instructor at ANA's grading who said he has dipped a coin for a better grade which means cards or coins that it is about the money. I choose to believe one of the kings in the coin world who said, "There is quality in every grade".
I will say that, while grading was meant to curb alterations, it actually increased them 1,000 fold.
First post on the board is a reply to a post from 18 years prior?
Fun one to bump because after 18 years, people are still complaining about the same stuff.
It’s not really a secret that grades don’t matter to me. That probably seems odd but the look of the card is what matters.
Here’s a case in point:
Highest graded:
Mine:
Should I get all bent out of shape because...well...I’m not spelling it out...but should I?
Honestly, I don’t think so. This isn’t a crime against humanity. No, instead, I paid for encapsulation and an opinion and I got one. I could send it in again or send it to someplace else but it’s the same card at the end of the day. Plenty of collectors buy the card and not the holder and in general, people adapt to change and the marketplace knows a good copy when they see one - that, for me, is the key.
I am aware that people live and die by grade as part of the business of selling cards and you have my sympathy (when you miss) and envy (when you hit).
Good luck out there; educate yourselves and buy cards at prices you can afford and you’ll always be happy.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
Great to see that you have both different variations of the back side text of the Dihigo cards in your post here. I still don't know why PSA does not distinguish between Yellow vs. Orange border versions of the Montiel set, or between the different versions of the backs.
I do have two copies but only the PSA 2 shown is mine. The other is at PSA and is presently in grading. That’s this one, which has lightness to some text in the bottom on the back but is also a really nice example:
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
For that particular set, what you have there in your second one is a very very clean surface to that card; most of them have staining/browning/discoloration.
I hope you're able to find one of the "La Sortija" versions to add to your collection too.
A few of these are La Sortija backs; I’d love to finish off the set but at this point it’s getting tough.
my set
empty album
graded stars
The beauty of this set attracted me and I went for the best ‘eye appeal’ I could muster - full borders, all text, mostly clean. Scale slides a little here and there but it’s one of the finest sets ever produced, in my humble opinion. Massive star power with many (most?) athletes still active at the time of release.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
Agreed; it is one of my two favorite multi-sport sets, along with 1968 Mira, which is also amazing for RC's and star power.
Wow, I actually remember the original thread. I guess I'm not losing my marbles...yet. It was fun seeing King Kellogg's post directly preceding the bump post. Some classic ex-members in this thread.
Hey, your 20th anniversary on the boards passed a couple of weeks ago, and we didn’t even throw ya a party! 🎉🎂
You just did. Thanks! I actually predate my current anniversary. My original ID was 69topps8 but I had some problems logging in after I moved and changed email services. I think I joined originally somewhere between 1998 and 2000.
Grading didn't/won't ruin the hobby, greed and stupidity are the two biggest problems we have, along with the "investors" who have too much money to spend turning the "hobby" into an "investment".
completely agree.
Some on that 2003 list have indeed come true or are in progress.
As for the self proclaimed "Mr Mint", even in he early 90's I thought "Mr VG-" was more accurate!
I recall back in the late 90's there as run on T206 Slow Joe Doyle's as certain folks tried to use them to create their own NY Nat'l variants failing then discarding.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)