Why do I stay on AH's case? Here's why...

K6AZ · June 30, 2003 12:31PM

1897-S Morgan PCGS MS64PL bought by thesourceforu:

PCGS MS64PL

The coin magically becomes an ACG MS65DMPL and is listed by ah-collectibles:

ACG "MS65DMPL"

lava · June 30, 2003 12:34PM

That sounds like one good reason, to go along with the probably one million other things going on over there. I commend you on your efforts to fight this fight. It is well worth fighting.

Tassa · June 30, 2003 12:35PM

What, you mean it doesn't really have deep mirrors?

Tassa · June 30, 2003 12:38PM

K6AZ, I just wanted to add that I think what you have done to help expose ACG for what they really are is great. I'm thankful that I stumbled across your site before I started buying coins.

wingedliberty · June 30, 2003 12:40PM

ACG is a demonic extension of satan's realm when it comes to coins. I also commend you for your courage and your efforts. We are with you.

Brian.

K6AZ · June 30, 2003 12:55PM

Thanks for all the kind comments. In my opinion, AH is the biggest fraud ever to be involved in numismatics. This coin is a prime example. It is a ~$175 coin. He sticks it in an ACG 65 DMPL holder and sells it to some newbie who thinks he is getting a steal on the coin for $500 when a genuine 65 DMPL goes for $1500. The newbie finds out the hard way later on down the road that he was had, and decides coins aren't for him. This hurts all of us, even those who never have been stuck with an ACG slug.

ER · June 30, 2003 1:07PM

Maybe I 'm missing something here, but from the poor quality scans, how can you tell it 's the same coin?
Is thesourceforu = A.H. ?

MrLee · June 30, 2003 1:12PM

I'm surprised they didn't grade it a 66.

Thanks for posting those. It shows nothing has changed at ACG.

carterhaines · June 30, 2003 1:14PM

Thats it, just one grade and designation upgrade. THIS IS ACG WERE TALKING ABOUT, you could easily find a 5+ split.

Mintstate · June 30, 2003 1:19PM

Am I missing something. Why is it showing a BIN price of $9.95 ??

Rick

flaminio · June 30, 2003 1:19PM

<< thesourceforu = A.H. ? >>

Yes -- thesourceforu is one of Hagar's buying accounts.

Not from me, however -- I block'd him.

K6AZ · June 30, 2003 1:22PM

ER- Look at the toning pattern to the right of Miss Liberty in both auctions. There is absolutely no question they are the same coin.

carterhaines- That one point and designation is the difference between a $175 coin and a $1500 coin.

K6AZ · June 30, 2003 1:24PM

Mintstate, they made a mistake on the BIN price of the auction and closed it. For some strange unknown reason they did not relist it.

Mintstate · June 30, 2003 1:27PM

<< Mintstate, they made a mistake on the BIN price of the auction and closed it. For some strange unknown reason they did not relist it. >>

That's what I was thinking. But the auction wasn't ended until 5 days after it was listed.

Rick

ohbaby · June 30, 2003 1:34PM

Same coin, look for the spot between the U and M.

No one holds a gun to anyone's head to buy this junk, even people on here buy the stuff [but wont admit it].

This is also no different than the coin hustlers who crackout from PCGS>NGC>PCGS or any other combinations with other slabbers. ACG may be the most blatant but this game is rigged by all to a degree.

Time to focus your crusade on NTC they out list ACG 4-1 on ebay. As of now 89 ACG listings, 400 NTC. 519 ICG and 198 SEGS and 5663 PCGS.

newsman · June 30, 2003 1:53PM

This is just another thread in a growing pattern of proof that the grade on an Accugrade slab has more to do with the slabholder than the coin in the slab. ACG's grading standards seem to be based on who owns the coin -- some services will bump a coin up for eye appeal or strike, they give points for the ah-collectibles pedigree.

DanC · June 30, 2003 2:48PM

Un-friggin'-believable.

If that's DMPL - I'm DCAMFranklin.

and trust me.... I'm NOT.

flaminio · June 30, 2003 2:48PM

<< Time to focus your crusade on NTC they out list ACG 4-1 on ebay. As of now 89 ACG listings, 400 NTC. >>

Well, firstly many ACG auctions don't actually say "ACG" in the auction title -- to do so would give them away as sleaze. They usually say something nondescript like "certified" or the like. So, it's hard to get an accurate count of current ACG auctions.

Secondly, I think there is a qualitative difference between NTC and ACG. They both suck, to be sure -- but NTC seems to do so out of mere incompetence, with no real malice. ACG is evil, pure and simple. K6AZ's website documents plenty of proof for that.

Merc · June 30, 2003 3:09PM

Wow it is the same coin. Nice detective work there. They both have the same pattern of tan haze toning. I hate that toning. It hides the mirrors and will Never come off. No dip will remove it. Then to crack out PCGS graded coins only to regrade them higher in your own holder and sell it for yourself. That's pretty low.

I did see AH at one small show. One guy was at his table with some moderns. He was telling him he would grade one the guy had as PF69 and another as PF70. Then he was quoting what he could sell them on ebay for. I guess that is what he thinks all the time. Place it in my holder and sell in on ebay.

Look out. I just checked the bids by "thesourceforu" username on ebay. He has been buying many coins everyday, mostly Morgans.

DanC · June 30, 2003 3:16PM

<< No dip will remove it. >>

Careful there Merc... you're teetering on the brink of the "unpardonable sin"

DCAMFranklin · June 30, 2003 3:58PM

<< Un-friggin'-believable.

If that's DMPL - I'm DCAMFranklin.

and trust me.... I'm NOT. >>

Yawn....yawn...yawn.

LucyBop · June 30, 2003 4:11PM

ahh, the truth comes out about DanC's alter id...... Shame on you!

Russ, NCNE

dorkkarl · June 30, 2003 11:07PM

<< It is a ~$175 coin. He sticks it in an ACG 65 DMPL holder and sells it to some newbie who thinks he is getting a steal on the coin for $500 when a genuine 65 DMPL goes for $1500. >>

your argument makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. are you trying to tell us that a high-end 64 (in pcgs) or low-end 65 (in acg) can't have a middle-range value to it? you are not making sense! there has to be a grey area in between the grades where a coin is worth more than ms-64 but less than ms-65, ie. grades are not discrete quantities, but a continuum of values.

if this is your argument acg, it is a horribly weak argument. i think you can find better ground elsewhere to stand on. btw, i couldn't care less about acg plastic, it's just like any other plastic as far as i'm concerned. but i do despise alan hager

K S

tjkillian · June 30, 2003 11:21PM

DorkKarl, I don't think the problem is as much as increasing the grade, we've all seen that by everyone, the problem is that it was bought by Alan Hager, then reslabbed by himself, then went on to sell it as a higher price. I big part of this particular coin is the EXTREME conflict of interest. I've seen and talk to Alan Hager, and I don't like him one bit.

Tom

4thStooge · July 1, 2003 12:31AM

Karl is absolutely right. K6AZ is taking cheap shots at Alan Hager based on some perception that the grade on a PCGS or NGC slab is to not be questioned. That there is no gray area between grades and prices. And that he won't reveal why he has a personal vandetta (apparently) against Hager. When K6AZ can honestly tell us that he attends coin shows and flogs the multitude of dealers there that openly sell raw overgraded and problem material then I'll be able to understand his quest. Those dealers are the bane of the hobby.

BTW, under what pretense is the grading standard that PCGS and NGC abide by (most of the time) the only standard and not to be questioned or modified?

NumisEd · July 1, 2003 12:52AM

I can't believe that Alan (not related to Sammy) Hagar only bumped the coin one grading point. I think PCGS is looking bad in this example. ALL of the grading services looked bad in the Coin World article last month. I remember when ACG would overgrade coins by 20 points or more!! Now they are real close to PCGS. In one example in the Coin World test, they were actually more conservative than PCGS. What's going on here? Is PCGS getting sloppy and liberal in their grading, or is ACG becoming more conservative? Or, do all grading services suck?

FACT: I betcha that if you send that same coin back to PCGS 4 or 5 times that it could end up in a PCGS MS-65 slab, which is what ACG has graded the coin.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely LOATHE Accu-crap and I strongly dislike Alan Hagar. I met the bozo at a coin show in Illinois 3 years ago and he almost physically attacked me because I questioned his grading. He yelled profanity at me and said that he was going to come accross the table and slap the taste out of my mouth. The guy is a greasy slim ball and a disgrace to the human race.

My point here is that I think that 3rd party grading in general is a much larger problem than that festering pimple on the a$$ of our hobby known as ACG.

eagle7 · July 1, 2003 1:04AM

Just a pure point of speculation on my part but I would say simply this. If one purchased the coin for the price on the pcgs ebay pl one would only need to bump it one grade point and then throw in the big kicker in price which is the DMPL rating to make really good money on the peice. So the grading simply becomes an element of what price do I want for the coin. If one owns their own grading service I would suspect that is where the grade came from and not a subjective evaluation of the coin itself. There fore the grade could be close(within one point) of the PCGS grade and by throwing in the DMPL you have made good money without grossly overgrading the coin. Just a more subtle approach to money making I guess.

Dog97 · July 1, 2003 2:14AM

You people are absolutely right, getting bumped up by 1 numerical point is no big deal & proves absolutely nothing!
Going from PL to DMPL means absolutely nothing too.

BUTT, what you fail to grasp is that making an upgrade on both the numerical AND surface designation is no easy feat, even with PQ quality Morgans. If it were a nice quality borderliner I could see 64 DMPL or maybe 65 PL if the value @ the next grade level was $100 more or even $500 more but on a low grade low quality semi-key issue with a $1,300 jump it just aint gonna happen!
And it sure as hell won't happen with a hazy, stained, spotted, fingerprinted etched surface, overdipped several times Morgan in a futile effort to remove the haze, spots, & fingerprints.

You people defending ACG and AH need to go learn something about DMPL Morgans & how they are graded.
Just look at AH eBay ME page; he brags about having 3,000 ACG coins & 5,000 NGC coins in stock so if Hager is so honest & such a great cherrypicker why didn't he send it to NGC since he prefers NGC to his own ACG almost 2-1?

newsman · July 1, 2003 2:31AM

The only thing the CW survey proved is that many of their advertisers sell overgraded, whizzed and cleaned garbage. I'd love to see someone go after those dealers as well, but I can't fault K6AZ if he feels he's got his hands full with ACG.

Also, there's a big difference between slight variations in grade based on opinion and deliberately manipulating grades based on who owns the coin. There's no evidence anyone but ACG does that. I don't care if the difference in grade adds one cent or $1,000 to the value, it's still dishonest. When those coins go into the market with a phony grade, it's not just the first buyer who gets cheated -- it's everyone down the line, and that's bad for the hobby.

4thStooge · July 1, 2003 2:44AM

<< You people defending ACG and AH need to go learn something about DMPL Morgans & how they are graded. >>

The Sheldon scale was hijacked years ago and, other than the numbers, in no way represents the scale as it was originally conceived. NGC and PCGS look at deep mirror proof like Morgan dollars differently. They are only offering Why can't Hager? Why must everyone equate any grading formula with that of PCGS or NGC?

<< Also, there's a big difference between slight variations in grade based on opinion and deliberately manipulating grades based on who owns the coin. There's no evidence anyone but ACG does that. >>

You are obviously not familiar with Numistrust or Truegrade.

NumisEd · July 1, 2003 2:52AM

I like what newsman said!!

dorkkarl · July 1, 2003 3:09AM

get real, dudes. the problem is NOT "acg". the problem is that you actually believe that a "grade" is an absolute charcateristic of a coin.

IT'S NOT

whether it's pcgs or acg, there is NO SUCH THING as "the right grade".

if you really want to addres this issue, help newbies understand that concept, NOT "acg is evil", because saying "acg is evil" is just another worthless opinion.

the fact that there is NO SUCH THING as an absolute grade is a FACT.

K S

Dog97 · July 1, 2003 3:35AM

The Sheldon scale has nothing to do with this coin or thread. But since you mentioned it, it does make a $400 difference but that is beside the point. Anybody familiar with Morgans will realize the key word here is DMPL.

<<<They are only offering Why can't Hager?>>>
If he was somewhere near accepted & published DMPL standards i.a.w. PCGS & NGC I would have no problem with him offering.
If he was somewhere near accepted & published DMPL standards i.a.w. per Pre-PCGS as defined by the foremost Morgan experts Leroy VanAllen or George Mallis I would still even then have no problem with him offering.

<<<NGC and PCGS look at deep mirror proof like Morgan dollars differently.....Why must everyone equate any grading formula with that of PCGS or NGC?>>>
OK so now the million dollar question....please explain the difference between DMPL as determined by NGC vs PCGS and how that applies to ACG designating anything shiny as DMPL.

K6AZ · July 1, 2003 3:38AM

I'm really surprised everyone missed the real point here. Forget about this particular coin. What this proves is that AH is a shill bidder (the sourceforu has bid on ah-collectibles auctions) and that thesourceforu is a puppet account of AH's that was used to sabotage my eBay business. Since I have cloaked my feedback for obvious reasons, here are the bogus negatives he dropped on my account.

Bogus Negatives

dorkkarl · July 1, 2003 3:42AM

<< I'm really surprised everyone missed the real point here. ... What this proves is that AH is a shill bidder (the sourceforu has bid on ah-collectibles auctions) and that thesourceforu is a puppet account of AH's that was used to sabotage my eBay business. >>

here is why the point was missed. you wrote:

"AH is the biggest fraud ever to be involved in numismatics ... a ~$175 coin. He sticks it in an ACG 65 DMPL holder and sells it to some newbie who thinks he is getting a steal on the coin for $500 when a genuine 65 DMPL goes for $1500."

your discussion emphasized focus on coin values, not on shill accounts. that's an entirely different story! shill-bidding is fraud, plain & simple, & you need not have muddled the issue w/ all the subjective emphasis on the coin's value.

K S

Dog97 · July 1, 2003 3:44AM

Oooopppps.....
I missed the point because I was looking at the coin too.
Sorry.

K6AZ · July 1, 2003 3:50AM

And you see nothing wrong with buying a coin that has a market value of $175, the slapping a higher grade and designation on it, and trying to sell it for multiple times what the coin is worth Karl? I have a long archive of auctions where AH bought semikey Morgans in NGC and PCGS AU58 holders that became ACG MS63 and MS64s as well. But I am sure you will find some excuse for him doing that as well. That is fraud just as well as shill bidding.

cointagious · July 1, 2003 6:18AM

<< And you see nothing wrong with buying a coin that has a market value of $175, the slapping a higher grade and designation on it, and trying to sell it for multiple times what the coin is worth Karl? >>

This hobby was built on the backs of the unknowing.

baccaruda · July 1, 2003 6:27AM

He can sell the coin in an ACG holder with any grade he cares to put on there. I don't think ACG coins command any more premium than raw ones.

cherrypickincoin · July 1, 2003 6:27AM

The fact is, noone can call fraud on something as subjective as the grade of a coin. There is no law that mandates what a particular grade has to be or how it should be graded. If a person acquires an MS64 Morgan and feels it is MS65 and grades it as such, there is nothing in the law that says he can't do that. Is it ethical? In my opinion, no. Is it illegal? Absolutely not.

I don't have as much of a problem with ACG's grading as I do their childish policies of less than 10 feedback bidders may not bid (obviously done to protect themselves against someone who can't stand ACG who simply creates another account for the purpose of posting neg. feedback). They also continually buy coins in another companies' slab and regrade it themself and put it on the market. They are notorious for dirty games like this and to me, that is the point here. We simply cannot call fraud on someone else's opinion of a grade.

What is any different about a dealer buying an MS64 morgan, playing the crackout game, getting a 65 on it and selling it for far more? This industry is littered with this kind of thing. I don't know why we limit our frustrations just to ACG.

cherrypickincoin · July 1, 2003 6:32AM

Let me elaborate a little more. How many of you have felt a coin should be graded higher than it was by PCGS or NGC? Probably quite a few of you. You may have even thought about sending it in for a regrade and I'm sure many of you have done that. Many of you have probably done crossovers as well. What is the difference with what ACG is doing? They're no different than many dealers out there, excluding the fact that they grade their own coins. PCGS employees are allowed to grade coins, send them out and 30 days later they are allowed to buy that coin. No conflict of interest? Don't fool yourselves. You know the definition of market grading according to PCGS' grading and counterfeit detection book? Any coin that you would be willing to purchase at a given grade. Gee, how subjective is that? I saw the 1804 Dollar earlier in June, no way in my opinion does that piece deserve PF67 but it did, by NGC anyway. Would probably get a PF68 if it was resubmitted. Again, how is it any different?

dorkkarl · July 1, 2003 6:37AM

<< And you see nothing wrong with buying a coin that has a market value of $175, the slapping a higher grade and designation on it, and trying to sell it for multiple times what the coin is worth Karl? >>

ABSOLUTELY NOT. because you have made a very basic error in your argument when you said "what the coin is worth". you are assuming that all-knowring pcgs establishes value for a coin, and such is simply not true. you and i and the other collectors who comprise the "market" establish values for coins.

it is 100% exactly the same as cracking out a pcgs ms-64 & trying to get it into a pcgs ms-65 holder & "trying to sell it for multiple times what the coin is worth" (your words). this is why, despite my personal revulsion for mr. hager, i do not like your approach at all, & it is unlikely to succeed in any lasting way. you are attacking another person's right to opine what he feels a coin is worth via a grade.

it is absolutely not fraud to profess one's opinion about a coin, even if it flies in the face of your assertion that all collectors must abide by what pcgs/ngc say. that is just simply not true, never was, never will be.

believe me, i like your intent, i really do. however, i do not like your approach. i believe you will find more success if you attack on the basis of facts.

GRADES ARE NOT FACTS

K S

Conder101 · July 1, 2003 6:46AM

<< And you see nothing wrong with buying a coin that has a market value of $175, the slapping a higher grade and designation on it, and trying to sell it for multiple times what the coin is worth Karl? >>

Right!! How dare he disagree with the Grading Gods at PCGS! Doesn't he know that a coin should never be sold at a grade higher than that ordained by the residents of Mount Olympus oops Newport Beach.

<< I have a long archive of auctions where AH bought semikey Morgans in NGC and PCGS AU58 holders that became ACG MS63 and MS64s as well. >>

Another shameful revelation. Everyone knows that the only acceptable way to accomplish that feat is to crack them out and send them on a pilgrimage to Mount Newport with the appropriate offerings. If you have been a sinner, the coins may have to make several pilgrimages.

K6AZ · July 1, 2003 6:47AM

Well, I see the ACG apologists are in full force today.

So tell me Karl, you would use your thesis that grades are only opinions on the two Long Island halves I have, both slabbed by ACG as MS65, and both are whizzed AUs?

Is there some part of the ANA decision in the Stuppler hearing you people don't understand? The ANA board of governors even agreed that the grades on ACG coins do not correspond with the market standard. But of course, none of this will satisfy any of you who for whatever reason try to defend the absolute fraud that Hager is.

K6AZ · July 1, 2003 6:48AM

Gee look Ma, it's the other ACG apologist!

dorkkarl · July 1, 2003 6:54AM

<< So tell me Karl, you would use your thesis that grades are only opinions on the two Long Island halves I have, both slabbed by ACG as MS65, and both are whizzed AUs? >>

absolutely. grades are opinions only. no if's, and's or but's, no matter how you slice it & dice it, or try to apologize for it, GRADES ARE OPINIONS ONLY. & nobody's opinion is "wrong".

now, it may be that a reasonable person, take for example yourself & myself, would never net-grade a whizzed coin to an unc grade, but the bottom line is that it still does not make the other person "wrong" (stupid, maybe, but not "wrong").

<< Is there some part of the ANA decision in the Stuppler hearing you people don't understand? >>

you bet, such as, why the he11 is it getting the publicity that it is? again, you make an extremely basic mistake when you say "ACG coins do not correspond with the market standard". there is no "market standard", case closed!

<< But of course, none of this will satisfy any of you who for whatever reason try to defend the absolute fraud that Hager is >>

again, you are ignoring the point of contention here. i despise hager, i think he's disgusting, despicable, & i wouldn't let my cat be alone in the same room w/ that "man", but regardless, i would defend until death the right of someone to express their OPINION in this, an (allegedly) free country.

your opinion is just as worthless as mine, & just as worthless as hager's - unless someone else happens to agree w/ it. you will have great difficulty proving that "nobody has ever agreed w/ hager's opinion"

K S

newsman · July 1, 2003 7:05AM

Nobody disagrees with the idea that grades are opinions, even if they are educated ones. But when you market yourself as a grading expert to the public while you profit from manipulating the results, that's fraud, pure and simple. AH is just like a baseball umpire who takes a bribe and throws a game for the home team with dishonest calls.

K6AZ · July 1, 2003 7:11AM

Karl, you are absolutely wrong. A coin either has wear and has been cleaned or it hasn't. As much as you try to confuse the issue, it is black and white.

Hager was found to have committed fraud in overgrading coin in a court trial. Here were the questions posed to the jury and what they found:

The interrogatories to the jury and their answers are as follows:

Interrogatory No. 1. Do you find that the plaintiff substantially performed all the work called for by the contract of October 16, 1984 including alterations and additions specified by the defendant?

Answer: Yes.

Interrogatory No. 2. Do you find the defendant Alan Hager failed to transfer certain barter credits in the amount of $9,000 to the plaintiff pursuant to the terms of their agreement dated October 16, 1984?

Answer: Yes.

Interrogatory No. 3. If your answer to Interrogatory No. 2 is yes, do you find that the defendant Alan Hager, offered to transfer $8,000 in barter credits to the plaintiff in lieu of the $9,000 in such credits specified in the contract?

Answer: No.

Interrogatory No. 4. If your answer to Interrogatory No. 3 is yes, do you find that Naughton was under no duty to accept the $8,000 because it would have unreasonably required the plaintiff Naughton to disregard his own interests or place those of the defendant over his own or sacrifice a substantial right he had?

Interrogatory No. 5. If your answer to Interrogatory No. 4 is no, do you find that the plaintiff had an opportunity to use $8,000 (Eight Thousand and 00/100) Dollars in barter credits but failed to use them or was prevented from using them because the barter agency went out of business?

Interrogatory No. 6. Do you find that defendant Alan Hager breached the contract between the parties by transferring overgraded coins whose verifiable wholesale value was less than 20 percent of retail value?

Answer: Yes.

Interrogatory No. 7. Do you find that the defendant Alan Hager knowingly falsely represented the grading and wholesale value of coins he transferred to David Naughton as higher than 19 percent of retail value, when that was untrue, and that he did so to induce Naughton to act on it and that he did so to his financial loss?

Answer: Yes.

Interrogatory No. 8. Do you find that defendant Hager in the course of his coin dealer business supplied false grading and valuation information regarding the coins delivered to Naughton for Naughton's guidance and that he failed to exercise reasonable care or competence in obtaining or supplying the information to Naughton for the purpose of inducing action on it, and that plaintiff Naughton did so act to his financial loss?

Answer: Yes.

Interrogatory No. 9. If you answered yes to No. 7 and find that defendant respectively committed fraud as to the plaintiff do you find that plaintiff is entitled to an award for punitive damages, which includes attorney's fees and costs of suit?

Answer: Yes.

4thStooge · July 1, 2003 7:12AM

<< Gee look Ma, it's the other ACG apologist! >>

No one is apologizing. No one need apoligize. Hager can do as he pleases. Make up his own grading standards, slab altered coins, etc. Other than his mass marketing, he is no different than the thousands of dealers that populate the bourse of every show across this country.

I, for one, would still like an explanation for K6AZ's adhominem attacks on Hager. Can anyone enlighten me? He doesn't seem willing or able.

JJacks · July 1, 2003 7:14AM

K6AZ,

I just wanted to come on here quickly and thank you for what you are doing. Quite honestly I don't have the right temperment or patience to fight that kind of fight myself, but I know you are on the right side for sure without doubt 100%. I can't believe people out there want to stand up for 12th graders punching 1st graders and stealing their lunch money (that is basically what is going on you know - the people in the "know" are completely duping those who are new to coins and laughing all the way to the bank). It is one thing to be unsure of a grade of a coin and sell it over graded, but it is quite another to proclaim that you are an "expert" and slab the coin with whatever grade you feel is required to get the amount of money you want for it and sell it to an unsuspecting buyer who believes you for some reason.

Good luck on your fights against these sorts of people in the future!

JJacks

Loki · July 1, 2003 7:30AM

<< PCGS employees are allowed to grade coins, send them out and 30 days later they are allowed to buy that coin. No conflict of interest? Don't fool yourselves. >>

Very Enlightening. I did not know that.

<< You people are absolutely right, getting bumped up by 1 numerical point is no big deal & proves absolutely nothing!
Going from PL to DMPL means absolutely nothing too. >>

Unless, of course, the monatary value of that miniscule jump makes your coin instantly worth 500% or more. Is there a better investment elsewhere?

<< Since I have cloaked my feedback for obvious reasons, here are the bogus negatives he dropped on my account >>

K6AZ, if you want to get the word out about ACG, why hide your feedback? To me, this is one of the best opportunities to publicly voice your concerns. When others click on your feedback, they will also click on AH's stuff, and judge for themselves whether the feedback was justified or not. You make excellent rebuttles with the feedback AH generates to you; why not publicly expose it for others to read as well?

<< get real, dudes. the problem is NOT "acg". the problem is that you actually believe that a "grade" is an absolute charcateristic of a coin >>

Well, I can't end this post without a rebuttle to Dorkkarl.
I don't want to believe it Dorkkarl, but the majority of collectors do, so I am forced to. The folks on this board are a minority; they are die-hard collectors for the most part. If we who visit this board regularly were a majority in the collector world, would companies such as ACG, CoinVault, Littleton, etc, etc, etc, even exist? I think not.

Finally, try selling a PQ original AU-58 capped bust half, lets say, for more money than a MS-63 dipped, lifeless capped bust half. Bet you can't, even though the majority of people would much prefer owning the AU-58 coin. Why can't you sell it for more money? Because it's GRADED lower, that's why! So yes, grade IS an absolute characteristic of a coin imo.

Why do I stay on AH's case? Here's why...

Comments

Leave a Comment