I know, anyone want to know about wave lengths and how they effect the wildly toned colors you see? It can explain why we all have different opinions on eye appeal!
You can fool man but you can't fool God! He knows why you do what you do!
I think for some eye appeal is diminished because of question regarding how that eye appeal was obtained and renders the coins market unacceptance.
Some would argue that you can't be absolutely, positively certain that these coins were AT. No one, except for maybe carterhaines grandmother , knows the history of these coins. But through knowledge and experience we can arrive at the conclusion with a very high level of certainty that these coins were ATed. This may not be "absolute certainty" but a high enough level of certainty that some would make the statement "I know the coins were ATed."
For someone that has come to the conclusion that the coins are ATed the visual appearance of the coins, even given the nice colors, renders them market unacceptable. What you see visual (a factor of eye appeal) is offset by the strong opinion that the coins were intentionally doctored.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
I dont care what holder, either PCGS or NGC or ANACS those peace dollars were in, I would not be a buyer of them. If someone else wants to, thats ok by me!
In an insane society, a sane person will appear to be insane.
Again, is it fear? So what if it was intentionally done, what difference does it make, people are going to buy it if they like it! Look at the new Coin World Trends, it talks about the premiums on colorized coins, these were intentionally made this way, do you call them AT? Time and money can make anything acceptable, just look at our everyday lives, Im sure Lucy can explain some of the differences! Used to be everyone was dipping to remove toning, now their adding it!
You can fool man but you can't fool God! He knows why you do what you do!
<< <i>Just because some of you have never seen toning like this doesnt mean its not natural! What makes you think youve seen it all? There are trillions of places this coin could have been! >>
"natural toning" on a peace dollar is a very light grey patina. anything that deviates is NOT natural.
it may not be intentioanlly artificial-toned, but regardless, it is not natural. in fact, the owner admits it in the very 1st thread - the coins were in a wooden box. a wooden box is not the natural, expected envirionment for these coins, therefore by def'n, it cannot be naturally toned.
it may not be intentioanlly artificial-toned, but regardless, it is not natural. in fact, the owner admits it in the very 1st thread - the coins were in a wooden box. a wooden box is not the natural, expected envirionment for these coins, therefore by def'n, it cannot be naturally toned.
definitely a-t
K S >>
They werent made to sit in albums either, gimme a break!
You can fool man but you can't fool God! He knows why you do what you do!
I saw Peace dollars, with similar toning to these, at a coin show recently. IMO this is the result of toning after the coin has been cleaned by something which leaves a residue behind. Thus they are AT and cleaned, but the AT was unintentional.
"It's far easier to fight for principles, than to live up to them." Adlai Stevenson
"Again, is it fear? So what if it was intentionally done, what difference does it make, people are going to buy it if they like it!"
It's not fear it's preference. Some prefer coins that haven't been intentionally doctor to obtain a particular appearance that other coins have as a matter of historical happenstance. Maybe that's something you don't appreciate. To each his own. But if we go down that road (that only "appearance" counts) then grab your whizzing tool, get out the chemicals, power up your laser and go to it. Maybe there is some market acceptance for colorized, whizzed, tooled and frosted coins. Heck let's just stamp some counterfeit 1933 Saints and sell them for $100,000 a piece (bargin price).
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
<< <i>Yeah, Ill admit that I use ebay as an outlet to get rid of my crap, but I also have legitimate coins >>
Hey, there's nothing wrong with that. I was just making an observation. But overused words like 'monster', 'blast white', 'electric blue', 'top pop', 'pop top' or 'pop goes the weasel' scream JUNK!!!
Descriptions like 'great investment opportunity' immediately raise the obvious question - 'If this guy really thinks that this is a great investment opportunity, why is he selling them?' If they were great investments he would be buying them instead.
carterhaines, my main question to you is "R U kidding me????"
At first, I was not sure if you really thought that your Peace Dollar was NT or AT. Nobody believed your BS story about your grandma, but I thought that maybe you bought the Peace Dollar as NT. Now I am starting to think that you are just a slime ball scam artist. What gave it away was your Morgan Dollar on ebay. Anyone who would sell a cleaned, AT coin with AU details as a originally toned MS-65 coin is a loser. It's absolutely no different than picking someone's wallet and stealing their money. I am also starting to realize that you are not the smartest guy around. I mean, who would parade an amateurly AT'ed Peace Dollar in front of some of this hobby's most talented numismatists in order to attempt to fool everyone? That's like trying to sell a fake Da Vinci to Sotheby's.
Russ, don't pamper this loser scumball freak. He's stealing money from Unknowledgeable people on ebay. That Morgan is at $50 right now. It's worth $6.50.
fishcooker, the coin has AU details, but it is actually a NET VF-20 due to the cleaning and AT.
carterhaines, since you have proved to us that such is the case, why make the boasts and claims that you do in your Ebay listings? The obvious answer is that you wish to take advantage of the uninformed, who are bidding on your AT and/or cleaned offerings. Prove me wrong and end your listings.
<< <i>it may not be intentioanlly artificial-toned, but regardless, it is not natural. in fact, the owner admits it in the very 1st thread - the coins were in a wooden box. a wooden box is not the natural, expected envirionment for these coins, therefore by def'n, it cannot be naturally toned.... They werent made to sit in albums either, gimme a break! >>
get real wallstreetman, i never said that either.
let me make it very simple for you: unc peace dollars naturally tone to grey. PERIOD.
crappy colors like the 1 on the subj. of this thread ARE NOT naturally toned. silver coins toned beautifully from an album ARE NOT naturally toned. NEITHER IS NATURAL. the difference, sometimes the a-t from an album looks very attractive.
Karl, it appears that you did indeed say this in an earlier post to this thread:
"natural toning" on a peace dollar is a very light grey patina. anything that deviates is NOT natural.
it may not be intentioanlly artificial-toned, but regardless, it is not natural. in fact, the owner admits it in the very 1st thread - the coins were in a wooden box. a wooden box is not the natural, expected envirionment for these coins, therefore by def'n, it cannot be naturally toned.
It goes like this....... Original tone = bag tone because that's what they were originally issued & stored in. Cut & dried, black & white, no and, if, or buts, about it. Album tone = natural because collectors naturally put them in albums. AT = toning created by some kind of applied treatment taking minutes, hours, or days to purposely simulate the attractive delicate natural or original toning. Notice the use of the word delicate. The Peace in this thread = aswimmer.
Change that we can believe in is that change which is 90% silver.
He's only 13. Ahhhhh, now that explains it! I was ready to whoop some a$$, but I think this kid just needs some guidance and a lesson in morals and ethics.
so is the person that started this post the same as eBay seller carterhaines ?
the one on eBay is selling doctored coins - XF/AU and calling them MS61
whether they know it or not is a question mark they have been on eBay for a year, if they are truly 13, like they say in another post - they started young and are pretty sophisticated sellers with HTML and paypal
the AMAZING toned 1922 is not original - whether cleaned or polished before retoning that way or whether just heated - who knows - maybe the kids grandma bought the stuff from the mint but her house burned down 30 years ago - with her coin collection in it?
wasn't Carter Haines the character in the movie "Pacific Heights" with Michael Keaton playing an unscrupulous hiester who screwed people out of enormous amounts of money?
"I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather did, as opposed to screaming in terror like his passengers."
Comments
<< <i>
now THIS is real peace dollar color tone >>
oh, i forgot to add: compliments of adrian
NGC slabbed. guess the grade you can have it !
opps, i meant for $300 dlvd/insured..heh..
<< <i>
<< <i>
now THIS is real peace dollar color tone >>
oh, i forgot to add: compliments of adrian
NGC slabbed. guess the grade you can have it !
opps, i meant for $300 dlvd/insured..heh.. >>
***REFERENCE EBAY LOT #3016461761****
You know it's a bad day when you have to try to convince others of your intelligence by stating your IQ score.
Michael
I definitely have to pay more attention to Adrian's sales.
K S
Some would argue that you can't be absolutely, positively certain that these coins were AT. No one, except for maybe carterhaines grandmother
For someone that has come to the conclusion that the coins are ATed the visual appearance of the coins, even given the nice colors, renders them market unacceptable. What you see visual (a factor of eye appeal) is offset by the strong opinion that the coins were intentionally doctored.
<< <i>Just because some of you have never seen toning like this doesnt mean its not natural! What makes you think youve seen it all? There are trillions of places this coin could have been! >>
"natural toning" on a peace dollar is a very light grey patina. anything that deviates is NOT natural.
it may not be intentioanlly artificial-toned, but regardless, it is not natural. in fact, the owner admits it in the very 1st thread - the coins were in a wooden box. a wooden box is not the natural, expected envirionment for these coins, therefore by def'n, it cannot be naturally toned.
definitely a-t
K S
it may not be intentioanlly artificial-toned, but regardless, it is not natural. in fact, the owner admits it in the very 1st thread - the coins were in a wooden box. a wooden box is not the natural, expected envirionment for these coins, therefore by def'n, it cannot be naturally toned.
definitely a-t
K S >>
They werent made to sit in albums either, gimme a break!
Don't you have a Morgan on ebay that looks just like it? Hmmmmmmm....
GSAGUY
"Again, is it fear? So what if it was intentionally done, what difference does it make, people are going to buy it if they like it!"
It's not fear it's preference. Some prefer coins that haven't been intentionally doctor to obtain a particular appearance that other coins have as a matter of historical happenstance. Maybe that's something you don't appreciate. To each his own. But if we go down that road (that only "appearance" counts) then grab your whizzing tool, get out the chemicals, power up your laser and go to it. Maybe there is some market acceptance for colorized, whizzed, tooled and frosted coins. Heck let's just stamp some counterfeit 1933 Saints and sell them for $100,000 a piece (bargin price).
<< <i>Linky to Carter's Morgan on ebay.
GSAGUY >>
Great coins sell themselves. Crap needs overblown verbiage to find a sucker.
<< <i>Yeah, Ill admit that I use ebay as an outlet to get rid of my crap, but I also have legitimate coins >>
Hey, there's nothing wrong with that. I was just making an observation. But overused words like 'monster', 'blast white', 'electric blue', 'top pop', 'pop top' or 'pop goes the weasel' scream JUNK!!!
Descriptions like 'great investment opportunity' immediately raise the obvious question - 'If this guy really thinks that this is a great investment opportunity, why is he selling them?' If they were great investments he would be buying them instead.
I have never been so insulted. Your story is ludicrous. You are full of feces!
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
At first, I was not sure if you really thought that your Peace Dollar was NT or AT. Nobody believed your BS story about your grandma, but I thought that maybe you bought the Peace Dollar as NT. Now I am starting to think that you are just a slime ball scam artist. What gave it away was your Morgan Dollar on ebay. Anyone who would sell a cleaned, AT coin with AU details as a originally toned MS-65 coin is a loser. It's absolutely no different than picking someone's wallet and stealing their money. I am also starting to realize that you are not the smartest guy around. I mean, who would parade an amateurly AT'ed Peace Dollar in front of some of this hobby's most talented numismatists in order to attempt to fool everyone? That's like trying to sell a fake Da Vinci to Sotheby's.
You suck
<< <i>Yeah, Ill admit that I use ebay as an outlet to get rid of my crap, but I also have legitimate coins. >>
Carter,
Why didn't you mention in the auction description for the Morgan that the reverse has been improperly cleaned?
Instead you say this:
<< <i>coin has a near immaculate reverse with gold rim toning and Proof-like qualities. >>
Nothing wrong with unloading the coins you don't want on eBay, but you should be honest when doing so.
Russ, NCNE
Is that Morgan AU?
fishcooker, the coin has AU details, but it is actually a NET VF-20 due to the cleaning and AT.
<< <i>I am not an expert to toning... >>
carterhaines, since you have proved to us that such is the case, why make the boasts and claims that you do in your Ebay listings? The obvious answer is that you wish to take advantage of the uninformed, who are bidding on your AT and/or cleaned offerings. Prove me wrong and end your listings.
<< <i>it may not be intentioanlly artificial-toned, but regardless, it is not natural. in fact, the owner admits it in the very 1st thread - the coins were in a wooden box. a wooden box is not the natural, expected envirionment for these coins, therefore by def'n, it cannot be naturally toned.... They werent made to sit in albums either, gimme a break! >>
get real wallstreetman, i never said that either.
let me make it very simple for you: unc peace dollars naturally tone to grey. PERIOD.
crappy colors like the 1 on the subj. of this thread ARE NOT naturally toned. silver coins toned beautifully from an album ARE NOT naturally toned. NEITHER IS NATURAL. the difference, sometimes the a-t from an album looks very attractive.
but the color on the subj. coin sucks big-time
K S
Karl, it appears that you did indeed say this in an earlier post to this thread:
"natural toning" on a peace dollar is a very light grey patina. anything that deviates is NOT natural.
it may not be intentioanlly artificial-toned, but regardless, it is not natural. in fact, the owner admits it in the very 1st thread - the coins were in a wooden box. a wooden box is not the natural, expected envirionment for these coins, therefore by def'n, it cannot be naturally toned.
definitely a-t
K S "
Original tone = bag tone because that's what they were originally issued & stored in. Cut & dried, black & white, no and, if, or buts, about it.
Album tone = natural because collectors naturally put them in albums.
AT = toning created by some kind of applied treatment taking minutes, hours, or days to purposely simulate the attractive delicate natural or original toning. Notice the use of the word delicate.
The Peace in this thread = aswimmer.
But after reading caterhaines` nonchalant post of: ` oh well, no biggy. I have legitimate stuff too....`
hmmm OK!! Nows theres little question as to the origin of that toned Peace.
I know I dont speak for everyone here but I think people that try to hawk these kind of wears
dont belong on these forums.
Now caterhaines- ....go away quickly...
Jade Rare Coin eBay Listings
I bet the guy is like 34 or something. and still lives with his parents......
giveaway.
the one on eBay is selling doctored coins - XF/AU and calling them MS61
whether they know it or not is a question mark
they have been on eBay for a year, if they are truly 13, like they say in another post - they started young and are pretty sophisticated sellers with HTML and paypal
the AMAZING toned 1922 is not original - whether cleaned or polished before retoning that way or whether just heated - who knows - maybe the kids grandma bought the stuff from the mint but her house burned down 30 years ago - with her coin collection in it?
<< <i>so is the person that started this post the same as eBay seller carterhaines ? >>
Yes.
Russ, NCNE
That's close. It was actually "Hayes". Seems applicable, though.
Russ, NCNE