Why won't ANY of the Grading Services Slab Counterfeits?

braddick

There were some well executed counterfeits produced in the late 1800's and early 1900's. Some of these are very well done and circulated freely with regular coinage. A search on eBay, key word: counterfeit will turn up some amazing finds and there is a segment of the collecting community that seeks these out. Now, if it is labeled properly, why won't ANYONE holder these?
Even if a Service like NCS would label it COUNTERFEIT (instead of Genuine) without a grade I would think there is a market for these collectibilities. But, no one does. Why?

FC57Coins

Pat - isn't owning or holding a counterfit by it's very nature illegal? Maybe that has something to do with it.

rwhite

They do... 1913 Nickel... 1804 Dollar... and many, many more "non authorized" coins.

foodude

My understanding is the same as FC57Coins, the counterfeits (v. altered dates) are illegal to own.

Several years ago I overheard two dealers talking about counterfeits. One of the dealers said he had some counterfeits, but the Secret Service had recently stopped by his house and confiscated them.

airplanenut

Maybe they just don't want to be associated with them... a mechanical error in this case would be a HUGE embarassment... much worse than saying MS58.

Jeremy

braddick

<< <i>My understanding is the same as FC57Coins, the counterfeits (v. altered dates) are illegal to own.

Several years ago I overheard two dealers talking about counterfeits. One of the dealers said he had some counterfeits, but the Secret Service had recently stopped by his house and confiscated them. >>

I define "counterfeit" a bit differently and agree with eBay's definition. An altered coin, made to decieve is NOT a counterfeit, per se. It is a host coin that is genuine but altered to appear as something it is not. A counterfeit is not a "coin" at all. It is not a product of the Mint but rather an individual (counterfeiter). Some of the earlier ones are striking in detail. The law that states ALL copies and replicas (counterfeits) need to have COPY punched into them wasn't adopted until 1974 (I think- might be wrong on the year). It is also a law that grandfathered in the earlier pieces thus allowing the collector to own these items.

Again- it is the attempt to pass a counterfeit as genuine that is illegal- not the ownership or buying/selling of these as collectibles. And, thank goodness because otherwise online auction houses like Heritage and eBay would be in tons of trouble as many are listed and sold daily!

lava

I can go one better -- ANACS bagged a coin as counterfeit, but included in the note that it was in fact made out of gold -- well heck, gold plus a nice creation, that has to be collectible to someone

I agree braddick, as long as it is labeled as such, the grading companies do everyone a favor (at least until some Hager-like character cracks it out in an attempt to pass it off as a primo coin under non-ANA standards)

braddick

"Potty" dollars. "Hobo" nickels. "Opium" dollars. These are all considered after-mint creations and NOT counterfeits. That 1944-D Lincoln altered to resemble a 1914-D? Altered, yet real.
Cast Chain cent? Electro Flying Eagle cent? Counterfeit. Counterfeit. Gallery Mint products? Counterfeit (or 'replicas' as they like to be called). Some of them are extremely interesting. Slabbing them and labeling them as such could be a boast to this segment of the hobby. I don't understand the hands off policy. Colonials and even Casino gaming tokens are slabbed now (!) and I've seen SEGS holder silver rounds (I own some) and Oak Mint products. Just curious why counterfeits are not considered.

Conder101

Actually I believe they will slab SOME counterfeits if they are normally collected with their respective series. I believe SEGS will slab Machins Mills counterfeits, the Vermont Ryder-5 which was a contemporary counterfiet, and I know they will slab the contemporary counterfeit Conder tokens. It would not surprise me if one of the services eventually starts to slab the counterfeit Bust halves which also have a strong collector following.

Possibly this is an overlooked market niche that a company could be formed to fill? CCGC Contemporary Counterfeit Grading Company. It could be started rather inexpensively by using the ACG encapsulation service so that you wouldn't have the high expense of acquiring the slabbing equipment and supplies

MrEureka

Slabbed fakes? Yeah, I can hear the dealer's pitch now: "Hey, you don't have to take MY word that this coin is fake..."

Legal issues aside, I doubt that there's a market for this service.


PS - I am a HUGE fan of contemporary counterfeit US coins!

ldhair

I agree with braddick too. It's ok to own them.

Was it the Hobby Protection Act that deals with this?

Someone should start a thread for folks to post pics of contemporary counterfeits.

Might be fun to see.

kieferscoins

I have seen one or two PCI slabs with the red label marked counterfeit on the front (no Grade) and across tha back of the label in large bold letters.

Cameron Kiefer