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I wonder about this submitter??
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Posts: 927 ✭
Dont know who it is I stumbled accross this submission when I thought I typed my invoice number. Mine is 8035167 and this one is 8035177. Looks a little scarey to me, Not pointing any fingers I just WONDER.
Dave
Dave
Visit my site @ www.djjscards.com
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if you won't point the fingers, I will, that's ridiculous, if someone has that many trimmed cards, maybe the whole invoice should be returned with a big note saying "thanks but no thanks"
trimmed invoice
Isn't it amazing what you find sometimes. Now to my eyes that looks like a submitter that
should be flagged from here on out and the remainder of the invoice should not be graded.
For I'd bet the rest are trimmed as well or he's buying beckett cards and crossing them.
On another note you heading to chicago for sportsfest. You should stop up sometime
and check out the 81's.
GATOR05@CHARTER.NET
Always looking for 1957 Topps BB in PSA 9!
Sounds like a candidate for "PRO" grading to me.
Vic
Gatta
Intrestingly,
Many of the cards shown on the invoice in question were recently auctioned by vendor - Pekovich.
I matched the recently auctioned PSA 9 1970 Bench #11515835 to the invoice..... Although I didn't check'em all - I would suspect that the 1969 Rose PSA 9; 1975 Ryan PSA 9 (hugh $$$$$) and others came off that same invoice.
sjjs28@comcast.net
Collector of 1964 Topps Stand Ups, 1965 Embossed, 1968 Topps Game and 1969 Topps Decals
Registered Sets: 1964 Stand Ups, 1965 Embossed, 1968 Topps Game, 1969 Topps Decals
A disgrace. I can't believe that PSA graded any of these cards. I am sure that it is a dealer. Out here some of these yoyo's measure PSA 7 & PSA 8 cards in the holder. I've seen this at the Hollywood Park show.
You know this guy is trimming the cards. If it was cards from one year, maybe he bought a bad run of cards. Here they are from different years.
A DISGRACE!!
I can recall a few months back where I went through a dealer's submission and 130
of the 200 red man cards came back as trimmed with a few recolored. Then when
the cards that made it into eight holders came up for sale on ebay they looked like
the worst eight's I'd seen. And I have seen a lot. The scans alone can't show everything,
but I was pretty certain the 53 Slaughter was badly trimmed. This card now resides
in one of Psa's top collector's sets.
aconte
Moments Bunning but now will pass...
Probably a good card too.
aconte
Steve
Website: http://www.qualitycards.com
Ok I take it back, your name is well traveled and I have bought a few cards from
you myself and have always been happy. Always high-end quality.
Hope to meeting you at sportsfest. I'll be bringing down apostle some presents.
And congrats on the pull on the greatest moments. I just picked up some 71 from a
dealer sight unseen to my door and was impressed to say 5 will make 9's. But a few
cards in the bunch are I think trimmed so I know what you meen. But I have flipped
em with the same dealer before so I think I'll be fine.
Take care, Gator
All -- I agree 100% with Jay's message. I've dealt the him on many occasions and have met him also. He's definitely one of the good guys in the hobby.
Now I feel bad about starting this thing going. That is the main reason I said I was not going to point fingers. You just never know all the circumstances. I apoligize if this has caused you problems I have bought many cards fron you in the past and will continue to purchase your graded cards. The tragedy of the this invoice is them being purchased at large card shows. I am sure you know who you bought them from and will remember this next time. Again I apoligize and I want everyone here to know for the record that Steve is a stand up guy with great cards.
Dave
58 Hodges raw .....PSA 8
58 Hodges raw .....PSA 9
59 Fox raw ....trimmed
59 Clemente raw ....trimmed
59 Clemente raw ....trimmed
60 Master Mentor raw ....trimmed
60 Musial raw ...trimmed
61 Banks raw ....PSA 6
63 Kaline PSA 7 ....PSA 8
64 Koufax PSA 8 ....trimmed
65 Carlton raw ....psa 8
65 Perez PSA 8 .... trimmed
66 Mantle raw ...trimmed
69 Rose PSA 8 ....PSA 9
70 Bench PSA 8 ....PSA 9
72 Ryan PSA 8 ....trimmed
73 Aaron PSA 8 ....PSA 9
73 Munson PSA 8 ....trimmed
73 Gibson PSA 8 ....trimmed
73 Ryan PSA 8 ....trimmed
73 Bench PSA 8 ....trimmed
74 Ryan raw PSA 8
6- 75 Younts (all 8s) ....all trimmed
75 Ryan PSA 8 PSA 8
75 Ryan PSA 8 PSA 9
75 Yount Mini PSA 8 PSA 8
75 Yount Mini PSA 8 PSA 9
75 Bench Mini raw ....trimmed
75 Bench Mini PSA 8 ....trimmed
Having the raw cards come back trimmed was a disappointment, but not as much as having the crackouts come back trimmed. I think once there are high dollar cards in an order that are trimmed, the graders will get nervous and kill everything that even remotely looks suspicious. Not sure though. Perhaps some trimmed cards got through PSA at one time and they caught them this time. They looked real good in holders though which is why I bought them in the 1st place. Most of the raw trimmed cards did come from one source and none of the raw cards that got graded came from that dealer. The graded cards came from all over the place which is why I think a lot of those "trimmed" cards are still good.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I dont think it pays to trim cards and try to get them into PSA holders...PRO maybe.
As to the GMs, I actually thought there may have been something fishy with those....I just never see them that sharp. For all around clarity sake, here' the invoice # on those: 8035113. I just wish I had trimmed those 64 Giants (Just a joke.....)
Steve
The PSA crackouts came back trimmed, did you let PSA know that they originally had graded those? Too bad PSA won't buy them back now that they are cracked out. I'm sorry so many came back like that, I'm guessing some of those aren't trimmed. I wish that these graders would practice some consistency. I know the same graders that originally graded the cards aren't probably the ones who graded them this time, but that is pretty ridiculous. Good luck on your future invoices since that one sucked.
Thanks for the reply. Sorry to jump to conclusions but I've seen a couple invoices with
the similar characteristics as yours. And I've felt that many of the cards that did get
graded seemed questionable.
I do believe each card should be judged on its own. But when a pattern begins to
take shape with an invoice the entire lot needs to go under a microscope. And when
uncertain I think a grader should error to the side of caution.
Obviously, with your experience as a grader an seller in the hobby you've gained
the expertise to know cards. So I can understand the attempt to try to take
a chance to upgrade some high end cards.
Good luck with your auctions.
aconte
Is it just me or do you guys have a bad taste in your mouth seeing all those PSA crackouts turning up trimmed. Also.....I would hate to be the guy who bought the Ryan 9 for $1000 now knowing that it was an 8 at one time (thats just me though).
John
For what it's worth, at the 2002 National in Chicago I found a 75 Aaron #660 in a PSA8 holder. The thing was absolutely beautiful. The card has a tendency to be dull and lifeless but this had vibrant color, the corners were razors and the centering was very nice. It was truly a 9 in an 8 holder. I had it reviewed and PSA agreed. I got it back in a 9 holder. One of the foremost collectors of 75T was with me the whole time and knew the story as it unfolded. He had no problem trading for the Aaron knowing it was previously in an 8 holder.
Mike
If it was me I would rather not of known that it was graded an 8 at some point.
John
Basil,
I'm not sure if it matters to the guy that bought it for why should he care.
The guy that should be ticked is the one that sold it to Peck
He's the loser in the equation.
Website: http://www.qualitycards.com
The rest of the Aaron story is that I bought the card I mentioned for $100. I totally bought the card and not the holder. I didn't even consider having it reviewed until I scratched the holder while walking around National. It wasn't until I got home and looked at my scuffed holder that I took a really good look at the card. When I did, I realized just how strong the card was. Since I needed to have it reholdered anyway, I figured I'd have PSA go over it while they had it out of the holder. The person who ended up with the PSA9 Aaron was standing right next to me when I bought it in the PSA8 holder as well.
I'd be willing to argue that the Aaron is just as tough as the Ryan in PSA9. While the Ryan is still tougher in PSA9 as a percentage of the total examples graded, there have been four new PSA9s since the 2002 National (about 10 months). On the other hand, the Aaron has had ZERO new PSA9s since the 2002 National. Both are equally tough in PSA9, in my opinion.
On your comment about submitting the card 10 times and see how many 8s you end up with vs. 9s - that works both ways. Because my 75 set is made up only of cards I'm proud to own, I can't even guess how many PSA8s I have that would end up in 9 holders more often than not. This is what makes the registry a double-edged sword - a certain percentage of collectors buy the holder and not the card. So the Registry then gives a clouded picture of which is really the better set. Certainly not the fault of the registry, they rank the sets the only way they can. But unless you're an astute collector you're not going to know any better.
Mike
Mike,
Amen to that
How do you know that it (the Ryan card) was incorrectly graded an 8 the first time around? Why does the original grade have no merit in your mind?
If the card was originally an 8 then the fact remains that there was some qualified grader at PSA who deemed it as such...whether it was a 2 years ago or 2 months ago.
Once again, if I had bought the card...I would rather not of known...thats all.
John
John
The forums favorite motto agree to disagree.
I would have to say in this case it was a 9 in a 8 holder
thats why steve bought it.
Grading is subjective and no grading company is immune to inconsistency. Once again it comes down to "buy the card and not the holder".
1) If I buy a PSA 9 NQ card, and it meets MY standards for a 9 then I'm a happy guy.
2) If I buy a PSA 9 NQ card, and I feel there's a PSA8-quality card in there then I'm NOT a happy guy.
So you're saying that for example #1, I should be upset if I found out the card began life in a PSA8 holder. If it meets MY standards for a PSA9, why should this be so?
As for the specific example of the 75 Ryan. . .there was a thread titled "Record price paid for 75T card" or something. . .at the time, I commented that the card had fabulous eye appeal and the corners looked like razors. And essentially if the scan was to believed, it didn't just look like a 9 - it looked like a high-end 9. Are those qualities any less true today now that I know it was once in a PSA8 holder? I think not.
Mike
<< <i> I commented that the card had fabulous eye appeal and the corners looked like razors. And essentially if the scan was to believed, it didn't just look like a 9 - it looked like a high-end 9 >>
I try not make those type of statements until I see both the front and back of the card in person.
John
Now I'm really confused. . .
Mike
This was the scan....it could not be enlarged. Please let me know how could call it a high-end 9? Im not saying that it is or not is...I do not know...but without an enlarged scan nor a scan of the back of the card....how can you tell?
John
Please read my previous post...
<< <i>To add to my previous post...I was just sharing one collector's feelings (mine) if I had purchased the card. I am not saying that my feelings would be the majority or that any person's thoughts are either right or wrong. Obviously if I had broke it out and resubmitted it myself then I would be thrilled with a 9. If I had paid a strong price for a resubmitted 8 than I would have a bit of buyer's remorse....once again....that is just my personal feeling. Many collectors would have a different opinion...I was just sharing mine. No one is right or wrong. >>
I clearly stated that IF IT WAS ME that I would have buyer's remorse....once again...my personal opinion on how I would feel.
John
You're both assuming that the PSA 9 Ryan is still the same size as when it was in the PSA 8 holder. Considering the overall results of the invoice, I'm not convinced that that's a valid assumption.
I realize that your comments are your own opinion, but I've been trying to find out why you feel that way. Again, I ask - if a card meets your standards for a PSA9, does it really matter if it was once in a PSA8 holder?
I guess if your primary focus is on the grade on the holder I could understand your sentiments. But if you buy the card and not the holder, then I just don't get what difference it would make. You always struck me as someone who focuses on the card, so I'm curuious as to why you hold the view on this that you do.
Horizontal> I understand what you're saying. But I discount that possibility to the point of impossibility. There are VERY few dealers whose integrity is beyond question with me. Steve Pekovich is one of them.
Mike
Mike,
Believe it or not...I do judge the card not the holder. I collect 1965's...and have be known to be a stickler when it comes to quality of 8's that I collect. I was just sharing my opinion....ideally....if I paid that money I would want it to be a crisp, new find in the hobby...not a card that was resubmitted before.
If I would spend $1300+ plus for the card...I would have a bit of buyer's remorse knowing that a grader at PSA deemed the card a PSA 8 at some point in the past. If this card cost $50.00 I would not have that type of remorse.
John
You coming to SportsFest?
Mike
I do not think Im going to sportsfest as we are planning to move sometime this summer into a new home. I would hate to think that I would be jumped by the 100 or so 1975 collectors.
John
Also, sometimes another grading service works well. For me, SGC graded a number of cards psa judged trimmed.
What often comes back graded on the second submission is that the card is undersized.
Often it is better if these cards are mixed in with others.
I do not think that Steve,s submission is that unusual.
Davalillo
Mike