are there any legit bargins left in classic coins?
barberlover
Posts: 2,228 ✭✭
Nothing to tell on my part i haven't already said, but i am interested in others points of view on this. Les
The President claims he didn't lie about taxes for those earning less then $250,000 a year with public mandated health insurance yet his own justice department has said they will use the right of the government to tax when the states appeals go to court.
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Brian
My advice to others, keep playing with a sharp eye and there will always be bargains... but study your craft!
Russ, NCNE
Awesome coin, and whatever you paid , you got a bargain. These are GROSSLY undervalued.
Brian.
What coins do I really like. I like coins with eye appear that are very nice for their grade. I seldom buy anything for myself that is less than VF or higher than MS-64. I've got some higher grade coins, but I've found that that range offers a reasonable compromise between having a very small collection with little variety to it and a large collection that full of less desirable coins a.k.a. "junk."
Where to begin?
How about Bust Half Dimes and Dimes? Plenty available in great condition at reasonable prices. Same for Seated 1/2 Dimes & Dimes. Even the proof coins here are begging.
Barbers. How the heck does this series get so overlooked? Everyone wants MS69 Walkers that's how! How often does one see a great 65 Barber vs. a 66 or even 67 Walker?
Seated $. Now here's a toughie, everyone is out looking for monster toned Morgans and the seated $s are begging. They aren't cheap and most are ugly but they are a great value compared to Morgans. Again how often do you see a Seated vs. a Morgan?
In the gold arena, DH says rare gold is dead and you should sell. OK, sell them to me! Rare gold [I define as pops below 30 coins for ms64 and up] is deader than a doornail but try to look for some of these coins and they turn up once every 4-5 yrs. Now that's rare! They are also cheap. You can buy some quarter eagles in 64 and rare for less than $1,500.
What I don't understand is how some can drop thousands on coins which are neither rare nor scarce and then ignore true rarities. So many "keys" of post 1900 coins have hundreds or even thousands slabbed and they sell as if only a few dozen exist.
The above is just the tip of the iceberg. I could go on about 2c in RD, colonials, 20c, Trade $, etc. These are all bargains some morethan others.
<< <i>legit bargins left in classic coins >>
I hate it when you see my post before I can edit the spelling.
Always looking for nice type coins
my local dealer
Bill, i sure wish i'd run int you in better financial times for me, but if/when those times turn around i am 100 % convinced we will do some buisness.
I would love to buy a m.s. 64 flying eagle cent with more eye appeal & better luster then the one Bill has in his private collection [if he could really find one] hey, thats something i might be able to afford right now, but i've never seen a 64 with better luster than that coin! Les
What would you like, a white coin? I've had a few REAL white pieces in MS-64 over the past couple of years, but I paid well over bid for them and sold them to dealers for $100 to $200 over what I paid. If you want a PQ MS-64, you have to get yourself into the mindset that you will pay more than bid. At the same time you can pay less than bid for MS-65 graded pieces that are still rip-offs. The last one I saw had been worked over something terrific. It was nothing but a problem coin in reality.
The last white one I had had been worked over to make it white, but it looked great. I paid "bid"and sold it to a dealer for shade over "ask." Really attractive flyers are worth a premium.
roadrunner
truer words were never spoken which cut to the heart of the matter without preference to classic, modern, proof or circulation strikes. i liken the hobby a lot to appreciating and listening to music-----if i box myself into one specific area, i miss most of what's out there. the only difference being that music is done with the ear and numismatics with the eye. but they both eventually lead to the mind.
while most of my energy is focused on one particular series, i pick and choose at the rest of the banquet. the key, as Windycity so aptly pointed out, is knowledge. when i know what i'm looking at, i'll know whether it's a bargain. lately that's been toned, mint-state classic coins or coins which exhibit unaltered surfaces. i miss out on some stuff because i never buy on a whim and oftentimes when i decide, the piece is gone. that's OK. better to lose some than end up with a hole in my pocket.
there are bargains at every show, my job, find 'em!!
al h.
<< <i>The absolute best bargain in classic coins right now is an 1871 2c piece in AU55. >>
Brian, I'm not disagreeing, but just out of curiosity, what made you come up with such a specific answer, out of thousands of other coins?
This market seems to be driven by top quality, (which has always been prudent) with a huge demand for modern issues to compete in registry sets.
When and if we start seeing an increased interest in collector grade Indians, Mercs and Buffalos, we might expect some of these classic bargains to enjoy some long overdue price appreciation.
From a collector's standpoint, I don't mind the current bargains in the classic series. However, if I were an investor or dealer, I wouldn't be adding them to my portfolio. I would be heavy in moderns and top pop coins of any series.
It seems to me there are 2 predominant type of dealers and investors making big money in this market. They are the Laura Sperbers with heavy funding snagging only the best of the best and the other is the guy on ebay who probably spends over 50k a year at the United States Mint.
Just my opinion.
When we are planning for posterity, we ought to remember that virtue is not hereditary.
Thomas Paine
Les
that may be peaking out. Cant be sure you will be right all the time, but with a little patience,
you will be ahead of the wave by buying quality coins at reasonable prices without the heavy
downside risk.
Camelot
series like Morgans, if you are familiar enough with the coins you can find bar-
gains. Many of the classics are quite rare and some have relatively low demand.
This has to constitute a bargain even if it can't be found in circulation.
roadrunner
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
You mean you can pay more than Greysheet and still get a bargain?????
I love Ike dollars and all other dollar series !!!
I also love Major Circulation Strike Type Sets, clad Washingtons ('65 to '98) and key date coins !!!!!
If ignorance is bliss, shouldn't we have more happy people ??
Russ, NCNE
Just as value investors eventually see more stable returns with little down side risk, they often miss out on several years of high growth rates, so it may be true for those who risk little to participate in momentum coins.
The 1990's saw unprecedented returns in growth stocks while value stocks in general went along for the ride at lower rates of returns. The old saying of a high tide lifting all boats.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for value investing and do so personally. However, the underlying conditions driving the current coin market appears to have pretty good legs. More State Quarters coming down the pipe with many new collectors entering as each state becomes available. New collectors may take years to result in an increased appreciation for the classics. Meanwhile, the registry sets have increased demand on top pop moderns and recent obsolete issues like Franklins, Kennedys and the like.
I'm just saying that I would ride this wave all the way to the shore rather than bail out and catch the next one coming by. If someone simply took their profits in the early nineties on equities thinking that a correction was way overdue, they would have missed out on the largest gains still to come.
I agree with Peter Lynch's philosophy on investing in companies.....ask yourself if the same conditions still exist that prompted you to purchase the company in the first place before deciding to take profits and move on.
When we are planning for posterity, we ought to remember that virtue is not hereditary.
Thomas Paine
lots and lots and lots and lots in many price ranges
sincerely michael
Maybe i should state how i feel on this matter after the last few posts on this thread that forgot the topic all together.
Classic coins to me ended with the Indian/bufffalo nickle, everyone has there own defenition of when classics ended and moderns began and i'm not going to argue the point.
I want value in my coins, i want to know the coins i buy i'm at least likely to break even if/when i trade/sell them but profit is not my motive for enjoying classic coins.
To me a bargin is an item worth the price i pay and maybe worth more 10 years from now but probably wont be worth less.
If there are more people entering the hobby because of modern coins it's certainly understandable since circulating colinage is something someone between the ages of say 6 to 18 is framiliar with.
My dad started me off with lincoln pennies and jefferson nickles.
As i grew older i wanted to learn more about collecting and did so by going to coin shows and buying my first redbook. Thats when i developed an interest in other coins, and as i grew even older my tastes changed untill one day in the mid 80's i saw my first barber coin and i knew what my future collecting interests was going to be.
I started this thread to get a discussion going on the wide selection of classic coins that can still be had at prices lower then 13 years ago.
I knew the answer to my question before i asked it, but was simply interested in hearing your opionions on the matter. I do not feel that within the remainder of my lfetime there will ever be a better time to buy high quality classic coins then right now and wanted to see how many people feel the same way, apparently alot of you feel the same way also.
Thanks for your thoughts- Les
I think the analogy is completely appropriate. As for my toilet water, I'll have you know my master keeps it well flushed and clean, but those blue drop ins do color my tongue and lips.
When we are planning for posterity, we ought to remember that virtue is not hereditary.
Thomas Paine
Now if I could only find a 66 my collection would be complete...
But to the question........... Classics are in my opinion ALL bargains..........IF........the money chasing moderns begins chasing classics.
My FEAR is that the moderns will take such a beating that we will lose MANY collectors who will blame the hobby. It has happened before in the roll craze of the early '60's.
Time, as always, will be the final judge. But if I had a truckload of moderns, I would be looking for the loading dock of the quickest buyer.
?????????????
<< <i>
But to the question........... Classics are in my opinion ALL bargains..........IF........the money chasing moderns begins chasing classics.
My FEAR is that the moderns will take such a beating that we will lose MANY collectors who will blame the hobby. It has happened before in the roll craze of the early '60's.
Time, as always, will be the final judge. But if I had a truckload of moderns, I would be looking for the loading dock of the quickest buyer.
????????????? >>
One little point of contention with your statements. Specifically, while there are huge numbers of people
collecting moderns, most of these people are relative newbies and spend little or NO money on the coins.
It wouldn't seem to affect most of these people whatever the extremely thin modern market does.
It's been said before but might bear repeating, that all previous market crashes have primarily hurt estab-
lished collectors and old timers rather than newbies. Newbies generally don't have the economic clout and
willingness to bid coins far beyond their "natural" values. People who neither buy nor sell in a market have
very little effect on that market, and few newbies are doing much buying.
collectors who have been around a few years. Some of these people are fairly
new but represent a tiny fraction of the total number of newbies.
Obviously "overly high" prices may be of concern in the future as more newbies
feel comfortable paying more than face value for coins, but at the current time
if the prices collapse most newbies would never even know of it.
mcinnes@mailclerk.ecok.edu">dmcinnes@mailclerk.ecok.edu
Catch 22, as far as the modern top pop market having plenty of legs for years to come I just don't see $18,000 MS68 common date Washington quarters continuing to strengthen their legs to $25k and $35K. Nor do I see a MS65 1932d quarter heading for the same type of numbers. Same comment for all the high grade post 1950 proof DCAMS/CAMS fetching thousands and tens of thousands of dollars. The potential for huge losses certainly exist here should economic conditons change significantly. A MS65 set of Roosevelt dimes will hold its value. A set of PF68-70 DCMS may not fare so well.
Can anyone remember a time over the past 30 years when a series became immensely popular in 1-2 years time, increased in value from 5x to 100x and did not get slaughtered in the next down cycle?
roadrunner
Are Beanie Babies still hot?
heh heh
Ebay and the internet changed that. No longer do sellers have to liquidate in a hurry at whatever a dealer is willing to pay. The margins on coins traded over ebay and the net have shrunk considerably. I would venture to say the many of us use the net as our primary source of obtaining coins, either through auctions from one of the major houses or ebay.
I suppose that perhaps I wasn't very clear in my previous posts. I am not fond of the moderns or top pops from a personal collection stand point. In fact, I specialize in rare date Seated material that rarely exceeds F-15. My contention is that if I were to speculatively invest in coins from a short term strategy standpoint, I would opt for the momentum coins until evidence that the boom in these coins started losing their luster. I just don't see that happening yet due to the increasing popularity of the Set Registry program and willingness of human nature to compete for the best of the best.
This was a hard pill for me to swallow. But, after reading numerous posts from many of the collectors of moderns on these boards I am convinced that these guys are quite knowledgeable in their areas of specialization. Perhaps it's the ability to aquire attractive coins in high grade at modest prices that the large majority of people desire these days...with little concern for the actual rarity of the date and mint mark.
Whatever the reason for the huge demand for this type of material, until I see evidence that the trend is to move toward the classics, I would place my investment money as stated earlier...in the momentum areas.
When we are planning for posterity, we ought to remember that virtue is not hereditary.
Thomas Paine
Aldous Huxley
Yabba dabba doo.
Fred Flintstone
<< <i> bumpy, I assume you mean 1901-S. >>
No, sorry, just being a smart aleck.
Aldous Huxley
Yabba dabba doo.
Fred Flintstone