Great Article in Coin World This Week
Endocrinologist
Posts: 213 ✭
One of the main articles this week in Coin World was an experiment of sending the same 15 coins to all of the major third party coin grading services. This article is part one of a two part series. It was very interesting how they set up the whole experiment. They show pictures of the same Franklin in several different coin holders with their different grades.
Next week we will see their final results.
The article is available online if you can't wait to read it.
Endo
Next week we will see their final results.
The article is available online if you can't wait to read it.
Endo
Take a Look at My Auctions TOO My Auctions
0
Comments
Of course the services will claim this is not a large enough sample size, etc. (& statistically speaking they are probably right). Still a good idea.
even the same coin. All be it at different times to different services.
Not really an eye-opener to many of us here.Its yesterdays news.
Maybe it will cause some to inter the crack-out game.
Maybe others to shy away from slabs alittle.
I think it may also point to buying exceptionally fine pieces that have been conservatively graded and paying what some would call "big
premiums" as a far better idea than many people may now think. Many people seem to be fixated on price when what they should be
fixated on is quality. Just my opinion.
If a particular coin grades MS 63 and again as MS 64 and it sheets respectively at $1,540 and $3,900, would you rather pay $2,500 for the
coin in a 63 holder or $3,500 for the same coin in a 64 holder? Of course the trick is not only buying the right coins at the "right" prices but
also knowing how to sell them when the time comes.
If you find the right coin in a 63 holder, the $ 2500 coin is almost certainly the right choice, BUT ALMOST NO ONE AGREES, otherwise the pricing structure would not be so discrete. Try to find a sesquicentennial half that sold for $ 1500. Are there really so few premium quality MS64s? These coins sell for about $ 500, and then jump up to about $ 3000 and more. It is absurd.
work. So, people either avoid them, not having confidence in their ability to sell them for the premium they've paid, or wait until
it gets in that 64 holder and then pay a higher price but gain the ability to recoup more of their investment with less effort.
Anyone can buy coins, the problem is that people fall in love with coins, spend all their spare cash on them and when they have to
raise money, they go to a local coin shop where they get an incredibly rude awakening. They either get out of coins or become
super wary when they re-enter the fray.
Incidentally, i bought one of the finest Sesquis i have ever seen this past weekend, in a MS 64 holder:
adrian
let me please repeat myself
wow
The grades are all over the place, even from the "big name" services! If I was a new collector and saw those results, I would be convinced that this hobby believes in the impossible.
The story doesn't address repeatability (there are enough crackout artists to prove repeatability isn't there), but how the same coin graded at different services.
One coin was graded the same by PCGS, NGC, and NTC, but higher by ANACS.
One was graded higher by NGC than ANACS.
One was graded higher by PCGS than NGC.
One was slabbed by PCGS and NGC but bodybagged at ACG.
More than one graded higher at PCGS and NGC than it did at PCI.
None of the conventional wisdom applies.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
If ACG is bodybagging coins PCGS holders and PCI coins grade a point lower than NGC on some- what can the Collector do to protect himself? I've got my own opinion, but would love to read yours.
peacockcoins
Tom
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
Bigern
coin----------ACG------------ANACS-----------ICG-------------NGC------------NTC------------PCGS--------------PCI--------------SEGS
1910s
cent---------whiz-----------AU/EF40----------whiz-----------whiz-----------clean-----------altered------------MS65-----------AU/whiz
1864
shield2c-----whiz----------AU/ef40----------whiz-----------whiz-------------cleaned-------cleaned-----------MS63cleaned---AU50/whiz
1901/5c-----whiz---------UNC/au55---------altered-------whiz------------cleaned--------cleaned----------MS61-------------au58 polished
1935/5c-----ef40---------ef45---------------vf30----------cleaned----------xf40------------cleaned------------ef40--------------au50/cleaned
1913/10c---cleaned------UNC/ef45 cleaned---n/a-------cleaned--------au58----------cleaned------------ms60/cleaned-----ms60/cleaned
A coin that grades MS 65 should come back as same time after time from the same service, unless it is a 'liner' coin, or it is "net market graded," ie., a Large Cent that is on the border re grade and color. If different services have different standards for a particular series(which they may or may not), then I can see a coin grading say a 5 at PCGS & something else at NGC.
The other thing is that some coin types are hard to grade, such as Capped Bust Halves, and to an extent, SLQs (I think there are some gold coins in this category, but I don't collect them & don't know anything about them). For this reason, I would think very carefully before buying a Capped Bust Half between grades MS 58 & MS 63.
****************************************************************************
Regarding Adrian's hypothetical pricing situation re a 3 at $1,540 and a 4 at $3,900:
If the coin is up for auction at one of the larger houses, some dealer will pay up to $3,000 or
so for it if he thinks it will upgrade. If the coin is an average 3, unless market demand is strong,
it'll sell for greysheet bid back 10% or so.
As a collector, depending on the demand for the type of coin, I can pick up a nice coin of this sort
somewhere between the midpoint of Greysheet bid and ask, or up to 20% over Greysheet ask if
the demand for it is strong (like a Trade $).
What happens on the floor of a big show, is that many dealers try to get PQ prices for average material. I respect a dealer who has an ugly coin for the grade & prices it accordingly.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
coin-------------ACG-------------ANACS-------------ICG-----------------NGC------------------NTC----------------PCGS-----------------PCI--------------SEGS
'26 SLQ------ms63---------------PVC---------------ms63----------------au58 FH------------ms64----------------au58--------------ms64------au58/90%FH
43walker------ms63------------ms64-------------ms63-----------------ms62-----------------ms65---------------au58--------------ms64------ms63toned
1891morgan--ms62--------UNC/au55-AT-------au55-----------------AT------------------ms64------------??color--------------ms61------ms61/old-clean.
'01-O
Morgan-------ms62-----------ms61-----------------ms62-------------ms61---------------ms63-----------------ms61------------au55-------ms61/old-clean
03-S
morgan-------vf35------------ef45-----------------vf35-----------------vf25-----------------xf40-------------------vf35--------------ef40-------------vf30
21-D/Morg-----ms64-----------ms64-------------ms63----------------ms61-----------------ms63-----------------ms63-------------ms61------------ms62
1853
gold $---------cleaned----------au58--------------au55----------------ms61--------------ms62-------------------au55-------------ms62-----------au58
1893-CC
half eagle----vf35---------------ef45--------------ef45-------------rev/cleaned------------xf40------------------xf45--------------ef40------xf45/cleaned
Coins and slabbing coins is a game, a great game ..... both fun and challenging, open to anyone, with a large number of winners, with an unlimited number of players, many of whom can't decide if the game was originally known as "red light, green light" or "musical chairs," if you remember those?
Russ, NCNE
20% of the coins broke all the "rules"!
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>One was slabbed by PCGS and NGC but bodybagged at ACG. >>
What!? I didn't know ACG had bodybags! What was wrong with it -- was it problem-free??
Come on over ... to The Dark Side!
I guess I am niave, but I thought grading houses had their $h!t together a little more!!
Does anyone have personal experiences on one or two coins that parallel the Coin World study?
Just to be safe, they should be sent by different people, too.
Lurking with intent to loom
<< <i>Russ, you don't see any surprises there? That out of a sample of 15 coins, one would be graded higher at PCGS and NGC than it did at PCI, another would grade higher at NGC than it did at ANACS, and another would be slabbed by PCGS and NGC and bodybagged by ACG? >>
Kranky,
There are a couple singular examples of the garbage slabbers getting lucky, sure. But, on an overall grading basis the results confirm what everybody here has always said - that PCI, NTC and ACG are completely unreliable, and deserve their basement dwelling reputations.
Russ, NCNE