Killing ones self over money shows that the man had some serious problems. Unless you have walked a day in his shoes its impossible to make an informed decision as to his status as scum bag or poor soul. There are legit scum bags, and people that just get unlucky in life. There for the grace of god go thee. Maybe he really needed the money for something important? Maybe he was a dirt bag meth freak? Do you know? Anyway you slice it its a bad deal for all.
<< <i>Let them spend each summer, for the next 10 years, mowing lawns in some place like Houston, Atlanta, or Phoenix. Winters could be shoveling snow in Buffalo >>
How about mowing lawns in winter in Buffalo?
<< <i>JoeJewler ~ can you imagine if organized crime ran ebay, and had a "Safe Harbor" with some real clout? >>
Joe, organized criminals do run EBay.
<< <i>Clackamas ~ There are legit scum bags, and people that just get unlucky in life >>
IMHO, you're right. In a word, recidivism. That is what defines the line between the two.
<< <i>ER ~ Can we end this thread, please? >>
Not until everyone here is brought to the brink of madness. This thread will never end, ever.
Do you have a chip on your shoulder or are you just an unhappy person. Why do you always belittle people and assume everyone that does not agree with your values are somehow bad. You have no shame when you start wishing others death. You have no idea what the circumstances of his alleged crime were. But there you go again convicting someone without the complete facts. Life is too short to go through it as a unhappy ignorant redneck. While your knowledge of coins is certifiable your personality would come back in a bodybag.
having participated in this board for the last year or so i'm unfortunately not shocked by the repugnant responses of those who rejoice in the death of another human being.
A brother of a friend of a friend committed suicide last week. His mother had committed suicide and the friend's husband did as well. (truth is usually stranger than fiction, and depression sometimes runs in the family.)
I'm not a shrink, but a lawyer by trade who believes that suspects are just that, suspects, until proven guilty. It very well may be that the man was a criminal. It very well may be that his apparent suicide was related to the alleged crimes.
He also may have been innocent and the apparent suicide could have been unrelated to the alleged crimes.
Crime is bad, defrauding people is bad, knowingly selling at coins is bad. I'm sure most of us agree on these simple ideas.
Forgetting the principle of the punishment fitting the crime, the presumption of innocence is a concept and, consequently, the way of life that separates our country from many, if not most, of the rest. You'd hardly know it from this thread.
I agree with what you've said Zenny, but we did not get the chance to find that out in this case. The person in question took the coward's way out and ended the discusion.
I do not agree that we should feel sorry for the man - we all have free will and he exercised his to the fullest. I feel sorrow for his family and for his victims, but not for him.
Cecil Total Copper Nutcase - African, British Ships, Channel Islands!!! 'Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup'
Do you have a chip on your shoulder or are you just an unhappy person. Why do you always belittle people and assume everyone that does not agree with your values are somehow bad. You have no shame when you start wishing others death. You have no idea what the circumstances of his alleged crime were. But there you go again convicting someone without the complete facts. Life is too short to go through it as a unhappy ignorant redneck. While your knowledge of coins is certifiable your personality would come back in a bodybag. >>
<< <i>I do not agree that we should feel sorry for the man - we all have free will and he exercised his to the fullest. I feel sorrow for his family and for his victims, but not for him. >>
Agreed, I have always supported the idea that a person has the right to commit suicide. Preferably assisted to make sure it is done right. A bungled suicide IS a tragic thing.
<< <i>I just noticed this thread, and if I am correct a person commited suicide because he was ACCUSED of Ebay fraud.
My simplest assesment is,>>>THE PUNISHMENT DOES NOT FIT THE CRIME.
The poor guy did not rape and/or kill. He only, alledgedly commited low level fraud.
Eveyone has their own opinion, but I would'nt wish death on the worst coin dealer or coin doctor.
This is America, not Iraq ! >>
So now this suicide is seen as punishment for a crime? No one sentenced this person to death (this is America), he took it upon himself. Why should I feel sorry for him?
Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
Interesting that I'm not the one calling forum members names in this thread, but rather you "understanding", "tolerant", "sympathetic" ones that have called me a nazi and a redneck for my views.
A lowlife pulled the plug on himself, and all some of you seem to care about is him. I guess his victims are less important than he? They don't count? I wonder how many, such as those this POS ripped off, have committed suicide over the years after they were bankrupted by thieves like this guy? How many old folks lost their retirement funds? How many kids went hungry? How many lost homes? Where is your compassion for them?
Of course, the victims don't count, only the poor criminal. The "distasteful" view here is the one that is sympathetic to the criminal, with little regard for the victims of that criminal. It is precisely that view that, in large part, has helped to create the crime problem in this country. Let's not punish the criminal, let's try to "understand" him.
I'll bet every one of you would be singing a different tune if one of your family was a victim of a con and lost everything they owned, or more tragically, committed suicide themselves. You know what, if that happened to you, I would be sympathetic for you and your family. But, I will not waste my compassion on one who does not deserve it.
As I said " everyone has their own opinion ". I don't believe a person's death as the result of a non-violent crime is something to gloat about. If you are not sorry that somebody is dead for such a menial crime, that is your opinion. I just do not agree with you, and I do not have the time to explain to you why you should feel sorry.
Yes, I'd rather have seen him hobbling around on busted kneecaps for the next thirty years, myself - more of a fitting reward. Way too many people in this world far worse off through no fault of their own, and yet maintaining their human dignity, than for coin collectors to shed a tear for this kind.
Coin collectors - making the world a better place, one coin at at time.
Wow! If defrauding people of $100,000 is a *menial* crime, then I think I'll start selling on Ebay. I'm sure I have an MS-69, rainbow toned Arkansas state quarter here somewhere.
I happen to think $100,000 is a huge sum of money!
Can't imagine thinking $100,000 is not much of a crime!
A very sad story. I feel sorrowful for this man and his family. Desperation can lead a man to do very desperate things. Prayer and forgiveness, rather than hostility, might have brought this man to a happier ending. Some of you have expressed anger. Why? What's the point in casting spurn on top of this man's tragedy?
my sentiments exactly Matteproof. I briefly checked this thread when it was new and didn't care to see the direction it was heading so I didn't check in again - now had to find out why it had 70 posts.
Not to justify his actions, but people of great means exploit people everyday, whether illegal or unethical. Most well-paid professions feed off the pain and tragedy of others though their actions have been deemed "legal" (most likely by their peers who've profited in the same manner). I don't see this person as particularly evil, deserving of death. If his type deserve death, America would likely be a very desolate place.
Of course this is easy for to say as I wasn't scammed by him I guess.
How we treat the lowest among us is a mark of how we are as a society. In this society, it is the greatest who are capable of forgiveness and understanding.
Suicide is the ultimate in irrationality and SELFISHNESS. As such it should be mocked and ridiculed not revered and solemnized. Compassion for the foolish is not greatness and core disdain for thieves shows deep understanding.
IMHO-property crimes are no different than violent crimes.
There is a world of difference between quietly believing "justice was served" over this man's suicide vs jumping up and down and slapping high fives as if his death was a sporting event.
<< <i>There is a world of difference between quietly believing "justice was served" over this man's suicide vs jumping up and down and slapping high fives as if his death was a sporting event.
Comments
Can we end this thread, please?
<< <i>Let them spend each summer, for the next 10 years, mowing lawns in some place like Houston, Atlanta, or Phoenix. Winters could be shoveling snow in Buffalo >>
How about mowing lawns in winter in Buffalo?
<< <i>JoeJewler ~ can you imagine if organized crime ran ebay, and had a "Safe Harbor" with some real clout? >>
Joe, organized criminals do run EBay.
<< <i>Clackamas ~ There are legit scum bags, and people that just get unlucky in life >>
IMHO, you're right. In a word, recidivism. That is what defines the line between the two.
<< <i>ER ~ Can we end this thread, please? >>
Not until everyone here is brought to the brink of madness. This thread will never end, ever.
Do you have a chip on your shoulder or are you just an unhappy person. Why do you always belittle people and assume everyone that does not agree with your values are somehow bad. You have no shame when you start wishing others death. You have no idea what the circumstances of his alleged crime were. But there you go again convicting someone without the complete facts. Life is too short to go through it as a unhappy ignorant redneck. While your knowledge of coins is certifiable your personality would come back in a bodybag.
A brother of a friend of a friend committed suicide last week. His mother had committed suicide and the friend's husband did as well. (truth is usually stranger than fiction, and depression sometimes runs in the family.)
I'm not a shrink, but a lawyer by trade who believes that suspects are just that, suspects, until proven guilty. It very well may be that the man was a criminal. It very well may be that his apparent suicide was related to the alleged crimes.
He also may have been innocent and the apparent suicide could have been unrelated to the alleged crimes.
Crime is bad, defrauding people is bad, knowingly selling at coins is bad. I'm sure most of us agree on these simple ideas.
Forgetting the principle of the punishment fitting the crime, the presumption of innocence is a concept and, consequently, the way of life that separates our country from many, if not most, of the rest. You'd hardly know it from this thread.
z
I do not agree that we should feel sorry for the man - we all have free will and he exercised his to the fullest. I feel sorrow for his family and for his victims, but not for him.
Total Copper Nutcase - African, British Ships, Channel Islands!!!
'Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup'
What??????
Only ONE other guy wants his lawn mowed?????
<< <i>Russ,
Do you have a chip on your shoulder or are you just an unhappy person. Why do you always belittle people and assume everyone that does not agree with your values are somehow bad. You have no shame when you start wishing others death. You have no idea what the circumstances of his alleged crime were. But there you go again convicting someone without the complete facts. Life is too short to go through it as a unhappy ignorant redneck. While your knowledge of coins is certifiable your personality would come back in a bodybag. >>
Absolutely D.O.T.
<< <i>I do not agree that we should feel sorry for the man - we all have free will and he exercised his to the fullest. I feel sorrow for his family and for his victims, but not for him. >>
Agreed, I have always supported the idea that a person has the right to commit suicide. Preferably assisted to make sure it is done right. A bungled suicide IS a tragic thing.
My simplest assesment is,>>>THE PUNISHMENT DOES NOT FIT THE CRIME.
The poor guy did not rape and/or kill. He only, alledgedly commited low level fraud.
Eveyone has their own opinion, but I would'nt wish death on the worst coin dealer or coin doctor.
This is America, not Iraq !
<< <i>I just noticed this thread, and if I am correct a person commited suicide because he was ACCUSED of Ebay fraud.
My simplest assesment is,>>>THE PUNISHMENT DOES NOT FIT THE CRIME.
The poor guy did not rape and/or kill. He only, alledgedly commited low level fraud.
Eveyone has their own opinion, but I would'nt wish death on the worst coin dealer or coin doctor.
This is America, not Iraq ! >>
So now this suicide is seen as punishment for a crime? No one sentenced this person to death (this is America), he took it upon himself. Why should I feel sorry for him?
A lowlife pulled the plug on himself, and all some of you seem to care about is him. I guess his victims are less important than he? They don't count? I wonder how many, such as those this POS ripped off, have committed suicide over the years after they were bankrupted by thieves like this guy? How many old folks lost their retirement funds? How many kids went hungry? How many lost homes? Where is your compassion for them?
Of course, the victims don't count, only the poor criminal. The "distasteful" view here is the one that is sympathetic to the criminal, with little regard for the victims of that criminal. It is precisely that view that, in large part, has helped to create the crime problem in this country. Let's not punish the criminal, let's try to "understand" him.
I'll bet every one of you would be singing a different tune if one of your family was a victim of a con and lost everything they owned, or more tragically, committed suicide themselves. You know what, if that happened to you, I would be sympathetic for you and your family. But, I will not waste my compassion on one who does not deserve it.
Russ, NCNE
As I said " everyone has their own opinion ". I don't believe a person's death as the result of a non-violent crime is something to gloat about. If you are not sorry that somebody is dead for such a menial crime, that is your opinion. I just do not agree with you, and I do not have the time to explain to you why you should feel sorry.
Coin collectors - making the world a better place, one coin at at time.
My thanks to those who have served, and to those who are serving now, allowing these discussions to take place, in a free and open forum.
I know this is kind of off topic, but it seemed a little calmer than expressing my views and opinions on the main issue.
Wow! If defrauding people of $100,000 is a *menial* crime, then I think I'll start selling on Ebay. I'm sure I have an MS-69, rainbow toned Arkansas state quarter here somewhere.
I happen to think $100,000 is a huge sum of money!
Can't imagine thinking $100,000 is not much of a crime!
my sentiments exactly Matteproof. I briefly checked this thread when it was new and didn't care to see the direction it was heading so I didn't check in again - now had to find out why it had 70 posts.
Not to justify his actions, but people of great means exploit people everyday, whether illegal or unethical. Most well-paid professions feed off the pain and tragedy of others though their actions have been deemed "legal" (most likely by their peers who've profited in the same manner). I don't see this person as particularly evil, deserving of death. If his type deserve death, America would likely be a very desolate place.
Of course this is easy for to say as I wasn't scammed by him I guess.
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!
Steve
IMHO-property crimes are no different than violent crimes.
God.
I believe that is what is being debated here.
peacockcoins
<< <i>There is a world of difference between quietly believing "justice was served" over this man's suicide vs jumping up and down and slapping high fives as if his death was a sporting event.
I believe that is what is being debated here. >>
Agreed.
TBT