We may have a new Ebay Doctor!
FrattLaw
Posts: 3,290 ✭✭
Now I'm not one to hoist the flag prematurely and I have bid against this person on numerous toned Peace $, but there just something not right about a bunch of his coins, please take a gander and let me know what you think.
Incredible Tone on a Peace $
Michael
Incredible Tone on a Peace $
Michael
0
Comments
dragon
Note who else he "buys" from in large quantity. Do we really have a new doctor?
Russ, NCNE
He puts "But...AT?" in the titles, but puts "That DOESN'T mean it is artifically toned for sure" in the descriptions. I pointed this out in another thread, but nobody seemed to give a damn. Matter of fact, some people were defending this guy.
Russ, NCNE
dragon
Russ, NCNE
Michael
Even his PCGS & NGC coins look unnatural.
This seller just placed a bid in one of my auctions.
Coincidence?
Russ, NCNE
do you take credit card payments through paypal??
K S
I'ld bid but the cellphone payment is due this week.
I hate it when you see my post before I can edit the spelling.
Always looking for nice type coins
my local dealer
Look @ his auctions closer. There are several raw monster toned Peaces as well as some toned Morgans as well.
Michael
K S
dragon
I don't. Even if they did slab they would still be only $40 coins.
<< <i>Now I'm not one to hoist the flag prematurely and I have bid against this person on numerous toned Peace $, but there just something not right about a bunch of his coins, please take a gander and let me know what you think.
Incredible Tone on a Peace $
Michael >>
..........................when viewing a toned coin.....the colors should appear natural, in most cases they should blend into one another., never a hard line between then......also unless very dark, you should also be able to see the mint luster showing thru the toning........as if the color was floating above the surface........almost like a soap bubble.you can see thru the bubble, but you can also see the colors.......... hope this helps.......
Nice debate. This is my first day as a member of this forum so imagine my surprise to see I have my very own thread for a topic of discussion! Wow, as an optimist, I guess I can say I have made an "entrance", albiet infamous.
Well, a few of you know me but apparently not many. So, with the inherant limitations of email in mind, I will describe myself, my selling standards and ethics a bit and let you decide:
I am a 39 year old collector. I have recently returned to our hobby actively since my service business and family of wife and four kids are taking up just a little less time than in years passed...maybe some of you can relate. I collected modestly as a youngster from about 8 years old to 13. My active collecting interest seemed to wane with the on-set of dating and then the early adulthood demands of college, work and then family.
Living in a small town of 150,000 (which is the largest city in the state), coin collecting resources are very limited, as you might imagine. And in the last 15 months, I developed my interest soley in the area of toning and colors so NO local coin shops had that. As a result, I buy (and sell) using eBay and Yahoo. Everything I sell, I have bought via eBay. I do not know how to doctor a coin...heck, I really don't know that much about grading! But I am learning (about the grading part
When I am selling, if I know or even think a coin is ATed, then I will disclose my thoughts. But, as many of your know by the interesting tone-guessing games conducted by FRATTLAW (Compuserve), opinions on questionably-toned coins can be surprising and vary widely. The coins I have up now that do NOT contain an AT qualifier are not AT'ed, "IMO". COULD they be? Of course! But, in good conscience, they are legit. Also, IMO, they come no where close to the baked goods being sold by the obvious fakers.
As far as the "enhanced" pics are concerned, they are not. I have sold many raw and slabbed coins based on these pics in the past month or two and not one buyer has had anything negative to say at the pictures' representations. I AM sure of that.
Anyway, I am glad to join the group of commentators and look forward to sharing our hobby stories and opinions. Thanks for reading.
Doug (uofa1285)
Welcome to the boards. Go into your profile and turn on your PM tool.
Bryan
Texas Bullion Traders
Kiler rev though.
There's just one part of your post that I am concerned with;
<< <i>When I am selling, if I know or even think a coin is ATed, then I will disclose my thoughts. But, as many of your know by the interesting tone-guessing games conducted by FRATTLAW (Compuserve), opinions on questionably-toned coins can be surprising and vary widely. The coins I have up now that do NOT contain an AT qualifier are not AT'ed, "IMO". COULD they be? Of course! >>
Why would you sell a coin that you know is AT? Do you know the origin of these coins? Where they were bought, who they were bought from on Ebay? I think that if you disclosed that information, many more here would feel more comfortable with purchasing your coins as is -- ie raw. Do you offer an extended return privilege if one of your coins body bag at a major 3rd party service. Again, I would think that would make people less apprehensive as well. As you will come to learn by being a member of this group, for the most part we despise those that try to pass off ATed chemed coins as NT. And please don't take it to mean I believe you to be a part of that group, I do not, until I am provided evidence of such, everyone is innocent until proven guilty. But IMO, there are certain characteristics of your coins that are up for sale on Ebay that make them questionable as to the nature of the toning.
All in all, I have bid against you on some coins and realize you like the toned material. Please enlighten me (us) as to some of the points I as well others have raised. This is not meant to be bashing, I truly mean it in the most sincere tone as possible. I would love to bid/buy your peace $ and think if they are 100% NT, they are outstanding.
Michael
So what are you saying? ----------------BigE
<< <i>Does anyone else here see a pattern....... >>
i sure do. slam an ebay seller w/out the slightest shred of evidence that he's doing something unethical.
amazing how folks get tried, sentenced & executed, THEN research occurs.
yes, i see a pattern, its a pattern of mob-mentality
K S
<< <i>We may have a new Ebay Doctor! ... Now I'm not one to hoist the flag prematurely ... there just something not right about a bunch of his coins >>
frattlaw, i seldom find myself at odds w/ your posts, but even before uofa1285 posted, i thought the tone of your thread to be very questionable (ie, "questionable tone" if you catch my drift)
K S
Dog97 - glad I could nip ya...I'll let you know if it was worth it when it arrives.
Frattlaw - addressing your questions: If I sell a coin I KNOW to be AT'ed then I will state it so in the auction. If I think it COULD be AT'ed, I will state it so in the auction. I do not feel that publically advertising the sellers' name I got a coin from is constructive as long as I disclose my truthful opinions...in most cases during my acquisition of these coins, no caveats were offered. I do not offer an extended period for return for AT, as I have already disclosed the possibilities of such and the pics are detailed enough for a buyer to make up their own mind. As you know,a number of naturally toned coins get mistakenly body-bagged by the services, not to mention the arguable errors in grading. So even though they afford some solace as to toning orginality, they are still ultimately only opinions and not the final word.
(P.S. I have not referred to you by your personal names (unless I know you) out of respect for you and my newness to this community...not because I am de-personalizing my remarks).
Thanks all,
Doug
Why would you sell a coin that you knew to be AT? And how would you know that if you don't know anything about coin doctoring? Unless of course you knew the doctor and purchased the coin from him/her?
No offense, but even selling a known AT coin, disclosed or not, contributes to the problem. And really, IMHO isn't a position someone with your knowledge and love for toned coins should advocate or practice.
Michael
oooops I checked my records....greatservice sniped me. You were the seller. You called it Beauty & the Beast. A very unusual coin looking coin. No doubt in my mind that it was original. I was really attracted to it.
And by the way, he has even admitted to the fact that he would knowingly sell AT coins on Ebay. He might not be a doctor, but at least he is honest enough to admit that fact.
Michael
First, I have never knowing sold an AT coin at auction, I just stated that if I were sure of its status, I would disclose it as such - an important distinction (you should be careful to be accurate when you publically paraphrase another). Beyond that, there is nothing wrong with artificially decorated silver coins IF they are disclosed as such...do you have a problem with those nicely hand painted state quarters or sac dollars that many sell as novelties? Those are technically ATed? You don't and no one does, because we know they are ATed. I am disclosing the same facts. I am not in some corner selling a novice a undisclosed collectible coin at an artificially enhanced BIN price...rather, I am beginning the auctions at $0.01 and letting the market work itself out WITH the proper disclosures.
I believe you should think out your arguments a bit better before you enter into them...like you I mean no offense.
Doug
Doug
BTW, I tried to respond to the PM but it wouldn't go through...problems with my PC, methinks.
Thanks,
Doug
Doug
<< <i>Frattlaw,
First, I have never knowing sold an AT coin at auction, I just stated that if I were sure of its status, I would disclose it as such - an important distinction (you should be careful to be accurate when you publically paraphrase another). Beyond that, there is nothing wrong with artificially decorated silver coins IF they are disclosed as such...do you have a problem with those nicely hand painted state quarters or sac dollars that many sell as novelties? Those are technically ATed? You don't and no one does, because we know they are ATed. I am disclosing the same facts. I am not in some corner selling a novice a undisclosed collectible coin at an artificially enhanced BIN price...rather, I am beginning the auctions at $0.01 and letting the market work itself out WITH the proper disclosures.
I believe you should think out your arguments a bit better before you enter into them...like you I mean no offense.
Doug >>
You haven't yet sold a coin that you knew was AT, but you would have no problems doing so as long as you indicate such in your Ebay lisiting. And in your mind, since the starting price is $.01 if someone bids it up and buys it, then its their decision and thus it's the effect of a free market economy and you are relieved of all responsibility for selling AT coins?
Does that sum up your feelings and correctly paraphrase you?
By the way, my arguments are 4 steps ahead of this post already. And please clarify where I incorrectly paraphrased you?
<< <i>When I am selling, if I know or even think a coin is ATed, then I will disclose my thoughts. >>
That's your direct quote. I take that to mean, in part, I would sell AT coins, I would just tell everyone they are AT.
Michael
Doug, registered mail with insurance should cover any fears you have of the coin getting "lost in the mail."
and now to answer the auctions title question - What would I pay for that coin?
i'll give you 5x bluesheet bid.
Oops, looks like i'm $9890.00 short.
10x?
Oops, still short $9780.00.
oh well.
welcome to coinalot.
z
Are you serious? To go over my positions on AT selling for 3rd time would be redundant and useless. I was unmistakably clear...
Rearding your reference to the material I am selling, your use of "No offense, but even selling a known AT coin, disclosed or not, contributes to the problem" implies that I am selling known AT coins. I have not. Out of context? Maybe, but the public implication is as strong as your reckless use of the title of this string.
Wait, wait...I get it now! This is like some kind of forum-newbie initiation ritual, right?! Of course! How could I not see it. No one's understanding could be as incredibly thick as you are on this subject (except, seemingly BigE)...it was a prank all along! You kidders - you got me!
Nighters,
Doug
Doug
I...AM...NOT...REALLY...TRYING...TO...SELL...THE...COIN... ...READ...THE...AUCTION...TEXT...
After saying this the 10th time in two different threads, I have now spelled it out so that even you might be able to understand it more clearly.
dOUG
I'm not trying to make a profit AT THIS POINT in my collecting "career", just trade enough to have fun in the hobby.
Thanks for the sport, I like inciting controversial banter...at least, that's what my wife says.
Doug
<< <i>I was unmistakably clear... >>
Well then please make it clearer for those of us that don't posses your intellectual prowness.
Okay -- I'll make it simple for you -- (or maybe me, or maybe BigE, or maybe Zenny or all of us)
It's a simple YES or NO answer --
Would you sell a coin you knew was AT, as long as you disclosed the fact that it was AT?
Michael